The 996 GT2 "Widowmaker" tag. Time to explode the myth.
Discussion
Slippydiff said:
monthefish said:
Slippydiff said:
You'll appreciate that both incidents had nothing to do with the car, both were "operator error".
Surely that's the point.Even the most dangerous "widowmaker" car isn't actually going to kill anyone whilst parked up. Add in 'an operator' however...
Fact or fiction? You decide...
"while some fans dismiss the GT2's reputation as the 'widow-maker', I personally know of three people who are no longer here because the 996 GT2 turned out to be way too much"
(911 & Porsche World, June 2008)
I also know of a fatal accident in a 996, driven by somebody who'd had a range of 911s over the years.
My experience of the 996 was that it was very easy to get along with providing you're not asking too much of it, if you push it it bites and it generally happens at big speeds. I did 25k in mine and drove it on the Nurburgring, Spa, Brands, Thruxton, Bedford - I ran factory geo for most of the time until towards the end of my ownership I had it setup by Parr, it seemed worse if anything. I span it at Spa coming out of the bus stop with too much right foot, stopped next to the barrier just in time, very lucky. I span it on Brands GP coming through Clearways, the front went light over the crest as I turned in and it swapped ends leaving me facing the wrong way on the pit lane - s
t scary.
I had a healthy level of respect for my 996 but it had none for me
My experience of the 996 was that it was very easy to get along with providing you're not asking too much of it, if you push it it bites and it generally happens at big speeds. I did 25k in mine and drove it on the Nurburgring, Spa, Brands, Thruxton, Bedford - I ran factory geo for most of the time until towards the end of my ownership I had it setup by Parr, it seemed worse if anything. I span it at Spa coming out of the bus stop with too much right foot, stopped next to the barrier just in time, very lucky. I span it on Brands GP coming through Clearways, the front went light over the crest as I turned in and it swapped ends leaving me facing the wrong way on the pit lane - s
t scary.I had a healthy level of respect for my 996 but it had none for me
996GT2 said:
I did 25k in mine and drove it on the Nurburgring, Spa, Brands, Thruxton, Bedford - I ran factory geo for most of the time until towards the end of my ownership I had it setup by Parr, it seemed worse if anything. I span it at Spa coming out of the bus stop with too much right foot, stopped next to the barrier just in time, very lucky. I span it on Brands GP coming through Clearways, the front went light over the crest as I turned in and it swapped ends leaving me facing the wrong way on the pit lane - st scary.
Parr may have tweaked the geometry Gav, but they didn't adjust the ride heights and/or corner weights. Accordingly the car suffered from the usual 996 GT2 affliction, that being a saggy arse and no rake. Chucking big camber on the front and rear would only have exacerbated the handling issues. But worse still the rear dampers were toast (leaking and thus providing little in the way of damping) not surprising at 66k miles. I can't remember, but my guess is the tyres were probably past their best.t scary.With the Ohlins fitted, the car was an awseome piece of kit, I suspect you'd have really enjoyed driving it on track with the mods I'd done.
Slippydiff said:
996GT2 said:
I did 25k in mine and drove it on the Nurburgring, Spa, Brands, Thruxton, Bedford - I ran factory geo for most of the time until towards the end of my ownership I had it setup by Parr, it seemed worse if anything. I span it at Spa coming out of the bus stop with too much right foot, stopped next to the barrier just in time, very lucky. I span it on Brands GP coming through Clearways, the front went light over the crest as I turned in and it swapped ends leaving me facing the wrong way on the pit lane - st scary.
Parr may have tweaked the geometry Gav, but they didn't adjust the ride heights and/or corner weights. Accordingly the car suffered from the usual 996 GT2 affliction, that being a saggy arse and no rake. Chucking big camber on the front and rear would only have exacerbated the handling issues. But worse still the rear dampers were toast (leaking and thus providing little in the way of damping) not surprising at 66k miles. I can't remember, but my guess is the tyres were probably past their best.t scary.With the Ohlins fitted, the car was an awseome piece of kit, I suspect you'd have really enjoyed driving it on track with the mods I'd done.
Don't suppose you know where the car is now do you? If it came up for sale I'd probably have it back again, third time lucky
Bought my car in April 2008, at first it was a scary car, losts of understeer and all over the place at high speeds. Had the geo done at Snel Motorsports and it changed the car, its on rails at high speeds (Over 330km/h at the Autobahn).
Still after all these years, every mile a smile.
996GT2 said:
I seem to remember they said they were adjusting the ride height as the adjusters were a real PITA to move. Whatever they did it didn't help much. In hindsight the dampers and everything else should have been replaced as they were no doubt the main issue, by the sounds of it you got the car properly sorted out, would have been great to drive it on that setup.
Don't suppose you know where the car is now do you? If it came up for sale I'd probably have it back again, third time lucky
I've just prepared a secondhand set of dampers for my GT3, it's boderline impossible to do on the car, and even off the car they're a complete PITA to free off (I ended up cutting the majority of spring seats and locking rings off, but managed to save the anti roll bar drop link brackets).Don't suppose you know where the car is now do you? If it came up for sale I'd probably have it back again, third time lucky
I'd be amazed if Parr removed the dampers do free them off, I'm equally doubtful they freed them off on the car, but without wishing to cast aspersions, my guess is the ride heights and cornerweights wouldn't have been adjusted ......
^ ...... the rear end is lower than the front in the above pic. It did look good though !
I know you weren't a massive fan of the ride height I ran the car at with the Ohlins on Gav, but it's ability to deal with compressions on the road at high speed (and undulating roads generally) was otherwordly. It was a truly an epic car.
Whilst searching through some paperwork yesterday, I found a copy of the original advert I'd printed off when I went to view the car. I really wish I hadn't sold it now
I dare say if you speak to Tom or Dan at 911V they might contact the present owner on your behalf.
I owned one of these after just turning 24 in back in 2005, I was looking to get into a Turbo at the time until I saw one of these and just fell in love with the looks.
I drove it like an absolute loon and tuned it to over 600bhp, If you were sitting in the passenger seat when it hooked up in second gear it would almost make your vision go blurred.
With a decent suspension set up (cannot praise Chris at CG enough) and once you had found its limits I actually found it quite forgiving, although 100mph+ 4th gear rear end step outs were not uncommon in the rain, However I found you needed lightening fast reactions to really get the most from it.
The PCCB were toilet and these were binned after a couple of months as they pitted quite badly, The only other week spot I found was the gearbox, I think I had mine rebuilt three times in the time I had the car but that is evident in the way it was driven and the power put through it.
I kept this for over 4 years and over 50000 miles without accident and it was an awesome experience, I found it a lot more hard core that the 7GT2 I owned a couple of years after selling it.
I drove it like an absolute loon and tuned it to over 600bhp, If you were sitting in the passenger seat when it hooked up in second gear it would almost make your vision go blurred.
With a decent suspension set up (cannot praise Chris at CG enough) and once you had found its limits I actually found it quite forgiving, although 100mph+ 4th gear rear end step outs were not uncommon in the rain, However I found you needed lightening fast reactions to really get the most from it.
The PCCB were toilet and these were binned after a couple of months as they pitted quite badly, The only other week spot I found was the gearbox, I think I had mine rebuilt three times in the time I had the car but that is evident in the way it was driven and the power put through it.
I kept this for over 4 years and over 50000 miles without accident and it was an awesome experience, I found it a lot more hard core that the 7GT2 I owned a couple of years after selling it.
Suspension wise I had mine serviced by Chris at CG and he removed the shocks for factory refurb plus changed a load of bushes etc and set it up at about 40k which made a world of difference to road manners, just felt so much more stable and predictable though I'm embarrassed to admit no track time at all...
Suspension wise I had mine serviced by Chris at CG and he removed the shocks for factory refurb plus changed a load of bushes etc and set it up at about 40k which made a world of difference to road manners, just felt so much more stable and predictable though I'm embarrassed to admit no track time at all...
W1TAK said:
I'm certainly keeping mine, but, from all the previous and current owners...what is the best suggested suspension set up? I know mine looks like its on original dampers and rusty springs, so i will need to update at some point, is there the ultimate set up ?
I went from standard to Bilstein PSS9, then to the current exe-tc 3 way set up with progressive springs. Cost wise the jump from standard went £2,500 then £8,000 respectivy plus fitting. As slippy has already stated updated toe links and a rebush are also needed, plus of course a decent geo. Most would be more than happy with the PSS9, the exe-tc is a luxury but DOES perform superbly. Easy, relatively........ Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff