997 GT3 Gen1 clubsport
Discussion
arcamalpha said:
Steve Rance said:
I have felt for a long time that a vanilla Gen1 997 GT3 has the potential to be an absolute stunner of a car so i've put my money where my mouth is bought one. The plan is to keep the car as standard as possible so upgrades will only be done on the damping, geo and brake bias. I think that with a minimal amount of expenditure a vanilla Gen1 can be transformed into the car that it always should have been. Anyway, thats my hope.
I'll keep those of you who may have an interest updated as things progress
Will be watching this thread with great interest :-)I'll keep those of you who may have an interest updated as things progress
With my 964 finished and exactly as I would like it I'm turning attention to my 997. I took it for a long drive yesterday to get a feel for it and to work out where I'd like the car to be given my driving preferences. Jumped into the it after spending much of my time driving the 964 or a 997 cup. The things that struck me about the car were
1. The steering feel is exceptional - better in feel than both the 964 and the cup. Nice surprise
2. The engine is a peach. I prefer the 3.6 screamer to the 3.8.
3. The EBD and PASM filter a considerable amount of feel from the driving experience.
4. The stock geo is horrible
5. The aircon didn't work - doh
6. Nice to jump into a 997 without a sequential - didn't expect that.
All in all, very impressed. I have a pretty clear picture about where I am going to go with the car. The most critical upgrade will be the diff mechanism and the pre load set up. Next will be the damping control. After the first trail (horrible) it was obvious that this was an essential modification to get right. This is a real conundrum. I don't want to fit passive unless I really have to. I may look at a software upgrade if there is a bespoke option - although I suspect that possible will be the only real solution. Finally, I will fit an Alcon front disc upgradeand cup removable steering wheel for even more feedback. A trip to Parr for the set up - they are particularly good at translating my requirements into a geo pretty much first off. There will be the obligatory Cup 2 fittment then I'll see where we are at the end of it.
I'm hoping for something similar in dynamics to the 997cup. We will wait and see!
It was interesting comparing the car to the GT4 which I recently drove at Spa. I won't go into the ins and outs of it because this forum is no longer as welcoming as it once was. All I will say is that I preferred the 997.
1. The steering feel is exceptional - better in feel than both the 964 and the cup. Nice surprise
2. The engine is a peach. I prefer the 3.6 screamer to the 3.8.
3. The EBD and PASM filter a considerable amount of feel from the driving experience.
4. The stock geo is horrible
5. The aircon didn't work - doh
6. Nice to jump into a 997 without a sequential - didn't expect that.
All in all, very impressed. I have a pretty clear picture about where I am going to go with the car. The most critical upgrade will be the diff mechanism and the pre load set up. Next will be the damping control. After the first trail (horrible) it was obvious that this was an essential modification to get right. This is a real conundrum. I don't want to fit passive unless I really have to. I may look at a software upgrade if there is a bespoke option - although I suspect that possible will be the only real solution. Finally, I will fit an Alcon front disc upgradeand cup removable steering wheel for even more feedback. A trip to Parr for the set up - they are particularly good at translating my requirements into a geo pretty much first off. There will be the obligatory Cup 2 fittment then I'll see where we are at the end of it.
I'm hoping for something similar in dynamics to the 997cup. We will wait and see!
It was interesting comparing the car to the GT4 which I recently drove at Spa. I won't go into the ins and outs of it because this forum is no longer as welcoming as it once was. All I will say is that I preferred the 997.
Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 09:28
Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 09:31
I look forward to the project, I thought about selling the GT4 and doing a GT3 project.
PASM would be 2nd to go after fitting the short final drive, better diff and rs flywheel 1st.
Then as you say disk, pads, geo, monoball rear toe links and prob engine mounts.
No idea why people in the UK run stock cars, to many down sides.
I just don't fancy the risk of the project if I did not like the end result.
PASM would be 2nd to go after fitting the short final drive, better diff and rs flywheel 1st.
Then as you say disk, pads, geo, monoball rear toe links and prob engine mounts.
No idea why people in the UK run stock cars, to many down sides.
I just don't fancy the risk of the project if I did not like the end result.
Brake wise you can go 380 front and 360mm rears, nice upgrade, but the big pain in the braking system is the abs unit, and the cost of replacing that is mental.
Suspension you could try this, Jackwood has it on his 997 GTS, when I chatted to him at Oulton I could work out if he liked it or not?
http://www.tpcracing.com/dsc.html
Personally I got rid and went with Moton club sport 2 ways, I'd have a look at these boys the set up gets good reviews in the states and gives a lot more compliance.
http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/
Diff went with GT guard plates. And 40/60 ramp angles,.
Are you trying to make a road or track car, I assume road with your other toys?
Suspension you could try this, Jackwood has it on his 997 GTS, when I chatted to him at Oulton I could work out if he liked it or not?
http://www.tpcracing.com/dsc.html
Personally I got rid and went with Moton club sport 2 ways, I'd have a look at these boys the set up gets good reviews in the states and gives a lot more compliance.
http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/
Diff went with GT guard plates. And 40/60 ramp angles,.
Are you trying to make a road or track car, I assume road with your other toys?
Porsche911R said:
I look forward to the project, I thought about selling the GT4 and doing a GT3 project.
PASM would be 2nd to go after fitting the short final drive, better diff and rs flywheel 1st.
Then as you say disk, pads, geo, monoball rear toe links and prob engine mounts.
No idea why people in the UK run stock cars, to many down sides.
I just don't fancy the risk of the project if I did not like the end result.
I get that. The platform is good enough to take in basically any direction that you want. As long as you dial a balance into the set up you will be fine. Also I understand how you feel about gearing so the final drive option will make a big difference. To be honest, the standard flywheel is pretty light so I'd leave that upgrade until the clutch needed replacing but it could also be done when at the same time as the diff.PASM would be 2nd to go after fitting the short final drive, better diff and rs flywheel 1st.
Then as you say disk, pads, geo, monoball rear toe links and prob engine mounts.
No idea why people in the UK run stock cars, to many down sides.
I just don't fancy the risk of the project if I did not like the end result.
Cunno said:
Brake wise you can go 380 front and 360mm rears, nice upgrade, but the big pain in the braking system is the abs unit, and the cost of replacing that is mental.
Suspension you could try this, Jackwood has it on his 997 GTS, when I chatted to him at Oulton I could work out if he liked it or not?
http://www.tpcracing.com/dsc.html
Personally I got rid and went with Moton club sport 2 ways, I'd have a look at these boys the set up gets good reviews in the states and gives a lot more compliance.
http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/
Diff went with GT guard plates. And 40/60 ramp angles,.
Are you trying to make a road or track car, I assume road with your other toys?
Ha. Yep, road only. The cup is more track practicle. Your diff suggestion is pretty much exactly where I'm going - guards/cup with a fair bit of preload. Again, the pasm upgrade - pretty much spot on. The Parr chaps offer the same system I think (?). Shall call them shortly to discuss. My preference on passive is JRZ - mainly because I have a lot of experience with them but Moton are right up there also. I can live with the ABS system but not the EBD. Basically it intervenes as a fail safe once the diff starts to wear. My theory is to fit a strong and effective diff set up which should prevent the EBD sensors from engaging giving the analogue driving experience that I'm looking for. Suspension you could try this, Jackwood has it on his 997 GTS, when I chatted to him at Oulton I could work out if he liked it or not?
http://www.tpcracing.com/dsc.html
Personally I got rid and went with Moton club sport 2 ways, I'd have a look at these boys the set up gets good reviews in the states and gives a lot more compliance.
http://www.exe-tc.co.uk/
Diff went with GT guard plates. And 40/60 ramp angles,.
Are you trying to make a road or track car, I assume road with your other toys?
Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 11:17
Steve Rance said:
.Basically it intervenes as a fail safe once the diff starts to wear. My theory is to fit a strong and effective diff set up which should prevent the EBD sensors from engaging giving the analogue driving experience that I'm looking for.
Yes know what your talking about, I was going through rear pads in less than 5 TDs, haven't had this mod long enough to confirm, but early signs are good. Analogue driving experience, it's like a large hand grabbing the roof of the car and turning the car for you, very different to standard diff or cup plates only.Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 11:17
For road use I'd also look at upgrading engine mounts RSS work well. Stay away from gear box mount upgrades to much noise IMO.
LWF improves driving feel
Geo no more than 2.5 front and 2 at the rear on the camber side, any more and they start hunting tarmac.
Gearing I'd leave alone for a road car, cup pin and gear fine for track but I find that I'd like a longer gear for motorway cruising. You can use the gen 2 RS pin which will give slightly longer gearing than the cup pin. When my cup pin wears out I'll probably try this.
Rose jointing suspension arms, Mmm will give that analogue feel, but noise increase on long journeys can be a pain.
Looking forward to see what you do with the car and how it differs from mine which is set up for track.
Jon
Edited by Cunno on Sunday 24th July 12:00
ALL the things I have been saying for about 8 years lol but the gearing is still key as Motorway miles is pointless in this car esp if you are making it into a drivers spec car.
the Parr DSC price is £950+vat I have asked just last week but on a GT3 I would put the £950 into/towards passive 2 ways.
On a GT4 the £950 DSC is worth a try to stay oem for resale, to stop the nose dive issues under hard brakes , but on the older car just ditch PASM imho.
nice project for owners of current 997 GT3's but now they are £85k it's too much for me to swap the GT4 for and then spend £20k on it also :-( !
the Parr DSC price is £950+vat I have asked just last week but on a GT3 I would put the £950 into/towards passive 2 ways.
On a GT4 the £950 DSC is worth a try to stay oem for resale, to stop the nose dive issues under hard brakes , but on the older car just ditch PASM imho.
nice project for owners of current 997 GT3's but now they are £85k it's too much for me to swap the GT4 for and then spend £20k on it also :-( !
Steve Rance said:
Ha. Yep, road only. The cup is more track practicle. Your diff suggestion is pretty much exactly where I'm going - guards/cup with a fair bit of preload. Again, the pasm upgrade - pretty much spot on. The Parr chaps offer the same system I think (?). Shall call them shortly to discuss. My preference on passive is JRZ - mainly because I have a lot of experience with them but Moton are right up there also. I can live with the ABS system but not the EBD. Basically it intervenes as a fail safe once the diff starts to wear. My theory is to fit a strong and effective diff set up which should prevent the EBD sensors from engaging giving the analogue driving experience that I'm looking for.
Mr Rance , I had JRZ on my 997.1 . It absolutely transformed the car , parr did the work . It's still the car I miss the most .Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 11:17
Mr Rance I'm still running around in the badlands . Neil tells me the brumos will be ready sioon , dreadnought engine and new ratios set up for normal tracks not geared for towing the space shuttle Columbia into outer space .
Could you give the old girl a shakedown/ thrashing please when your schedule allows it ?
Steve Rance said:
With my 964 finished and exactly as I would like it I'm turning attention to my 997.
Have fun!! Glad you are going to get round to it. I wasn't sure if you would come back round to it once the Cup made an appearance to tag team with the 964. Keep things posted as you go.
The 3.6 is my favourite too when it comes to the engines. But it is very cool that there's a bunch of choices for those that feel otherwise. It's another layer on the car to let owners get in there and enjoy. There is pretty much nothing on there an enthusiast cannot change or tweak. It pleases me greatly. It's nice hearing about what other people are doing and always interesting to see where the perfect place ends up being for each.
wtdoom said:
Mr Rance , I had JRZ on my 997.1 . It absolutely transformed the car , parr did the work . It's still the car I miss the most .
Mr Rance I'm still running around in the badlands . Neil tells me the brumos will be ready sioon , dreadnought engine and new ratios set up for normal tracks not geared for towing the space shuttle Columbia into outer space .
Could you give the old girl a shakedown/ thrashing please when your schedule allows it ?
Would be delighted my dear old thing. Pop me a mail and we can sort something out.Mr Rance I'm still running around in the badlands . Neil tells me the brumos will be ready sioon , dreadnought engine and new ratios set up for normal tracks not geared for towing the space shuttle Columbia into outer space .
Could you give the old girl a shakedown/ thrashing please when your schedule allows it ?
Steve Rance said:
It was interesting comparing the car to the GT4 which I recently drove at Spa. I won't go into the ins and outs of it because this forum is no longer as welcoming as it once was. All I will say is that I preferred the 997.
Do tell more. There are many old chaps on here that welcome your input with open armsEdited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 09:28
Edited by Steve Rance on Sunday 24th July 09:31
Steve, how did you find the throttle responsiveness for heall'n'toe compared to your other cars?
A minor frustration I have with the car is that a quick stab of the throttle doesn't seem to be enough to raise the revs sufficiently. It is better in sport mode but it still feels as if the computer is deciding whether it wants to bother opening the throttle as much as the driver is pressing the pedal.
It would be interesting to try a cable-throttled 996 for comparison. Or I just have to practice more...
A minor frustration I have with the car is that a quick stab of the throttle doesn't seem to be enough to raise the revs sufficiently. It is better in sport mode but it still feels as if the computer is deciding whether it wants to bother opening the throttle as much as the driver is pressing the pedal.
It would be interesting to try a cable-throttled 996 for comparison. Or I just have to practice more...
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