996/997 GT3 how obtainable are they.

[LaSource]

Unfortunately it's the last week of December when we are all more likely to be typing about these cars on forums than driving them in anger....Feb/Mar is probably earliest for serious use

OP, so have you made up your mind yet?

[ArcticGT3]

With PCCB, about a Fiver !

[V8KSN]

ArcticGT3 said:

With PCCB, about a Fiver !

[Cheburator mk2]

trawler said:

Interesting prices abroad are still strong abroad I've bought from Germany before & wanted to do the same with the CSL over 8 years ago, but found the uk to be cheaper. Had a discussion with a M engineer in Germany regarding the csl & GTS & he said the cheap way for a track car was to start with a base E46. They are also very disappointed that BMW have not continued with proper M cars like porsche have with the gt3.

Cheapest CSL was a good EUR20k more expensive than the cheapest GT3. Found it almost offensive

As to proper M-cars - don't even get me started. I really really wanted the E61, the F10 left me stone cold after a weekend test drive... Turbo-schmurbo, efficiency, umpteen configurable M-buttons and settings. What happened to pure unadulterated driving pleasure as distilled up to the E39???

[pete a]

V8KSN said:

Who cares! …… Does anyone know what a 2007 997.1 GT3 comfort with PCCB brakes is worth?

65-75k depending on condition and mileage I imagine.

[Geesus]

LaSource said:

OP, so have you made up your mind yet?

I thought I'd been forgotten with all this conjecture!

This thread has been very helpful, I 'think' the sensible in me says get an E46 CSL or a 1M (not sure which is better so feel free to add your thoughts guys).

Obviously there's no denying I feel the GT3 is the better option and the one I'd prefer to be in, but I'm worried the extra £15,000-£20,000 minimum over both the BMWs is pushing it a step to far sadly.

Porsche= More of a sense of occasion, manual box, faster stock (on like for like tyres), better appreciating/ value holding.

BMW = 4 seats (keeps the wife happy), cheaper than the Porsche, st I think that's all.

Any of you collector/ high roller types own/ have owned both the 1M and a CSL?

[TB993tt]

LaSource said:

Anyway, you knew what I meant without trying to be trollish about making yourself feel good.

You said the word in every single post, presumably trying to make yourself feel good about the leveraged (I am guessing but probably correct given your obsession with the word) purchases in your profile - I fking hate the way that so many people are just into these cars to make money and not to drive and enjoy them for what they are..... anyway HNY to you and all

[Geesus]

Ok, back on track now please

[ttdan]

TB993tt said:

LaSource said:

Anyway, you knew what I meant without trying to be trollish about making yourself feel good.

You said the word in every single post, presumably trying to make yourself feel good about the leveraged (I am guessing but probably correct given your obsession with the word) purchases in your profile - I fking hate the way that so many people are just into these cars to make money and not to drive and enjoy them for what they are..... anyway HNY to you and all

Somewhat sad and probably misinformed assumption based on a "word" in someones post...Why is this place so vitriolic at times.

[isaldiri]

TB993tt said:

You said the word in every single post, presumably trying to make yourself feel good about the leveraged (I am guessing but probably correct given your obsession with the word) purchases in your profile - I fking hate the way that so many people are just into these cars to make money and not to drive and enjoy them for what they are..... anyway HNY to you and all

Rather unfair there and a bit of a jump to necessarily conclude all that. Random guess he's in finance and people do drop into using common terms in their line of work out of habit. And i believe you will find he probably drives his cars whether financed or not more than I manage to on the Porsches that i have not leveraged borrowed in order to purchase.....

Back on topic OP, don't get the BMW if you are going to buy one but continue dreaming of the gt3 i think. The pleasure of ownership of a car so good then probably gets diluted somewhat and just rob a bank to buy the gt3.....

Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 30th December 22:11

[squirejo]

It's interesting that the 1M has now come up for discussion. I would have one over a CSL simply because its a little more modern, fresh, newer technology in the cabin and errr.. the size makes it easier to thread down a B road (which if too bumpy will throw a gt3 behind my Macan) whilst it is still a visceral, raw drivers machine. I own a 996GT3.2 and a few other drivers devices and have not owned a 1M. Yet it reminds me of the Z3 m coupe and roadsters I did own a good many years ago (a reliable TVR, basically) with its simplicity. Some of the most enjoyable cars i have owned are flawed. Those that require understanding and knowledge and possibly some training to drive well. A bit like understanding leverage.

[isaldiri]

squirejo said:

It's interesting that the 1M has now come up for discussion. I would have one over a CSL simply because its a little more modern, fresh, newer technology in the cabin and errr.. the size makes it easier to thread down a B road (which if too bumpy will throw a gt3 behind my Macan) whilst it is still a visceral, raw drivers machine. I own a 996GT3.2 and a few other drivers devices and have not owned a 1M. Yet it reminds me of the Z3 m coupe and roadsters I did own a good many years ago (a reliable TVR, basically) with its simplicity. Some of the most enjoyable cars i have owned are flawed. Those that require understanding and knowledge and possibly some training to drive well. A bit like understanding leverage.

The 1M is a wider car than the csl. Not by much but it is wider per spec sheet. Call it part of the bangle bloat bmws have been afflicted by....

[squirejo]

isaldiri said:

The 1M is a wider car than the csl. Not by much but it is wider per spec sheet. Call it part of the bangle bloat bmws have been afflicted by....

Well there's a thing. I am surprised. Compactness?!

By the way OP, are GT3's unobtanium? No, and you have received the correct advice already aside getting on first name terms with all the usual specialist dealers for 2015's off grid transactions. Sold before advertised is commonplace.

Edited by squirejo on Tuesday 30th December 22:45

[Geesus]

squirejo said:

Well there's a thing. I am surprised. Compactness?!

By the way OP, are GT3's unobtanium? No, and you have received the correct advice already aside getting on first name terms with all the usual specialist dealers for 2015's off grid transactions. Sold before advertised is commonplace.

Edited by squirejo on Tuesday 30th December 22:45

Who are these specialist dealers? Are people at this level (GT3s) too afraid to list privately for fear of being fleeced? I always (naively) associate dealers with much higher than private prices...

[squirejo]

911virgin
Jzm
Etc etc......

Don't think a dealer can fleece a vendor if they buy outright, the price has to be agreeable to the seller and if they are SoR the service, transaction cost and sale price have to be agreeable to the vendor. But they still offer private buyers more assurance that the car is not a CatD special, over- rev victim or catastrophe in the making (10k refresh) whilst offering coffee, warranty and feel good factor. And finance if needed as per original post. You simply need to be ready with your (2k?) deposit to hand over the moment the right car comes your way. Subject to viewing, inspection etc.

Edited by squirejo on Tuesday 30th December 23:31

[Slippydiff]

ttdan said:

TB993tt said:

LaSource said:

Anyway, you knew what I meant without trying to be trollish about making yourself feel good.

You said the word in every single post, presumably trying to make yourself feel good about the leveraged (I am guessing but probably correct given your obsession with the word) purchases in your profile - I fking hate the way that so many people are just into these cars to make money and not to drive and enjoy them for what they are..... anyway HNY to you and all

Somewhat sad and probably misinformed assumption based on a "word" in someones post...Why is this place so vitriolic at times.

In fairness to Toby, that's BS. I really don't think you could accuse him of being vitriolic "at times".......








..... much fairer to say he's consistently so.

Given the chance to belittle anyone, Toby's always been more than willing to step up to the plate. T'was ever thus.

OP. Have owned M3 CSL, 1M Coupe and Mk1 GT3, and would love to comment on here, but I think PH has pretty much reached the point of no return. Posting on here these days is akin to a broken pencil ........

PM me if you'd like my views.

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 31st December 00:34

[Harris_I]

Geesus said:

Porsche= faster stock (on like for like tyres)

On this point, I don't think it's quite so clear cut. If unfamiliar with trail-braking a rear-engined car, I think the CSL would be more immediately accessible and therefore perhaps a touch quicker straight out of the box.

[LaSource]

With respect to 6GT3 vs CSL vs 1M, in my opinion it depends on how you intend to use them (and where)

For a mainly road car, 1M > CSL > 6GT3

For a mainly road car with some Ring trips CSL > 1M > 6GT3

For a road car with some considered track use (Silly, Spa, Ring) 6GT3 > CSL > 1M

From a speed perspective these are all fast cars. Between a CSL and GT3 I believe the driver can be the greater differentiator. Happy to admit I've been hassled by quite a few fast driven CSLs at the Ring. I find this less so at the F1 power circuits like Spa and Silly (the faster E46s here are usually modded non CSLs)

The 1M is devastatingly quick in the real world and probably quicker than both the other two over a B road. It is almost 10 years of later development then the GT3 and therefore can appeal as age related maintenance will be low. I don't see them too often at track days though and yet to see a well driven one (May be that is just down to chance)

If you have not driven a rear engined car on track before then the 6GT3 will take time before you get on top of it. Plus the degrees of setup mean that you may spend a little bit of money honing it in to your needs/style - this can be a moving feast as you are also getting faster. E.g. Geo, tyres, tuition, uprated brakes, tuition, diff, tuition, suspension, tuition (in that order so probably 2+ years before you get to suspension). Therefore costs can be higher too if you really get into it. However, this personal journey is really where the fun is.

As stated before, the CSL you can get into much quicker, only needs a brake change as the OEMs are chocolate. You are likely to be quicker than a newbie 6GT3 driver. Plus if it is your only car then much more practical for broader use.

Residuals are good on all the above. I feel that 6GT3 > CSL > 1M when it comes to upside but that may just be biased opinion - and I suppose in the case of these 3 cars the 6GT3 has appreciated more already.

Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 31st December 02:43

[LaSource]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

+1 agree with your description and driving experience based analysis. The two M cars are great cars too...but not as focused as the GT3.

Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 31st December 06:02

[mrdemon]

LaSource said:

With respect to 6GT3 vs CSL vs 1M, in my opinion it depends on how you intend to use them (and where)

For a mainly road car, 1M > CSL > 6GT3

For a mainly road car with some Ring trips CSL > 1M > 6GT3

For a road car with some considered track use (Silly, Spa, Ring) 6GT3 > CSL > 1M

As most people on here do have a car for mainly road use it's not great the GT3 comes last in 2 of those :-)

Be good to place the R into that list, you choose one which comes 1st in one area and it comes last in another, I place the R 1st in all 3 :-)
unless one is rich enough to keep a GT3 at Spa or the ring...

the issue is one is a turbo over weight SWB CSL wanna be. (not really fun at all,are any turbo's after a while)

The CSL while a fun car, it has st brakes, you are changing out the RTAB every 6 months and it's an automatic which as all autos wears thin. and is now old with clutch issue. better to have owned one when they were newer imo.
(fun to own mine lasted 8 months,the induction noise stays with you for life though)

the GT3 is a Spa track car. (fun to say you have owned , mine lasted again 8 months)

Add to that while most people seem to have there GT cars tucked up in bed or the 2 BMW are not even usable with this ice on the ground, I have been having fun and using my R every day this holiday.

And last if the OP is more interested in money the R might go up also a tad.

GT3 and CSL are tick box cars for car enthusiasts and while I can see a want for them both as a car enthusiast myself having owned both, you will move them on.