996/997 GT3 how obtainable are they.
Discussion
The 1M isn't comparable to a CSL/6GT3 imo, it's more on a parr with a Cayman R.
Bottom line is if you've 30K to spend on a toy buy a CSL, if you've 50K buy a 6GT3.
Demon, what clutch issues are you referring to on the CSL ? I ran a supercharger for 2yrs on a std clutch set up with zero issues other than the typical slurring if it's not driven properly/hard enough.
Bottom line is if you've 30K to spend on a toy buy a CSL, if you've 50K buy a 6GT3.
Demon, what clutch issues are you referring to on the CSL ? I ran a supercharger for 2yrs on a std clutch set up with zero issues other than the typical slurring if it's not driven properly/hard enough.
Mmmmm. I'll take a rear engined car over a mid or front/rear drive car in the winter every day.
I'd happily drive a GT3 every day in all weathers. I wouldn't feel quite as comfortable in my Elise S1 sport 190 which according to Mrdemon's philosophy has a better dynamic layout.
With the correct tyres, I cannot think of any Porsche as not being capable in all weathers in all seasons and in terms of unburtstability the GT3 (991 excluded) will be the best of the bunch
I'd happily drive a GT3 every day in all weathers. I wouldn't feel quite as comfortable in my Elise S1 sport 190 which according to Mrdemon's philosophy has a better dynamic layout.
With the correct tyres, I cannot think of any Porsche as not being capable in all weathers in all seasons and in terms of unburtstability the GT3 (991 excluded) will be the best of the bunch
Edited by Steve Rance on Wednesday 31st December 11:13
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I have driven a 1M and it looked great from the outside but the inside is very ordinary with no sense of occasion or being special. This was compounded by the fact that it had a very dull sound. I think the CSL will have more excitement and sense of occasion with the unique interior and the fabulous intake noise. For me it is these small things that make the car more enjoyable and exciting to drive.
The sad fact is that with modern cars becoming turbo and the death of the manual gearbox it is becoming increasingly difficult to buy something new that ticks all these boxes.
The only car I have driven recently that came close was a manual R8 V10 spyder however it did feel that bit more disconnected from the driving experience than the GT3.
isaldiri said:
Would have a csl (brakes as standard are a challenge i admit) or 6gt3 many many times over the cayman r. No contest at all imo.
A Cayman in any guise does absolutely nothing for me, nor does a Boxster. I can't get past their looks to even be interested in how good they might be in other areas.I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too.
Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box.
Does anyone know what dealer fitted options are compared with factory, it's not a term I've heard before
Below is an ad for a 1M
The car also benefits from the following dealer fitted options:
• BMW Performance carbon fibre boot spoiler
• BMW Performance steering wheel, re-trimmed with matching Kyalami orange stitching
• BMW Performance gloss black kidney grilles
• BMW Performance pedals
• BMW Darkline taillights
• BMW N55 mid pipes (eliminates drone)
• Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (which vastly improves grip!)
mrdemon said:
As most people on here do have a car for mainly road use it's not great the GT3 comes last in 2 of those :-)
Be good to place the R into that list, you choose one which comes 1st in one area and it comes last in another, I place the R 1st in all 3 :-)
unless one is rich enough to keep a GT3 at Spa or the ring...
the issue is one is a turbo over weight SWB CSL wanna be. (not really fun at all,are any turbo's after a while)
The CSL while a fun car, it has s
t brakes, you are changing out the RTAB every 6 months and it's an automatic which as all autos wears thin. and is now old with clutch issue. better to have owned one when they were newer imo.
(fun to own mine lasted 8 months,the induction noise stays with you for life though)
the GT3 is a Spa track car. (fun to say you have owned , mine lasted again 8 months)
Add to that while most people seem to have there GT cars tucked up in bed or the 2 BMW are not even usable with this ice on the ground, I have been having fun and using my R every day this holiday.
And last if the OP is more interested in money the R might go up also a tad.
GT3 and CSL are tick box cars for car enthusiasts and while I can see a want for them both as a car enthusiast myself having owned both, you will move them on.
By road car I meant one that say is your main car, driven by both you and spouse, may also be used for everyday trips (the odd school run, shopping, dinners). I have friends who have employ a 1M for this use. Another where the CSL was an outside parked work car. Be good to place the R into that list, you choose one which comes 1st in one area and it comes last in another, I place the R 1st in all 3 :-)
unless one is rich enough to keep a GT3 at Spa or the ring...
the issue is one is a turbo over weight SWB CSL wanna be. (not really fun at all,are any turbo's after a while)
The CSL while a fun car, it has s
t brakes, you are changing out the RTAB every 6 months and it's an automatic which as all autos wears thin. and is now old with clutch issue. better to have owned one when they were newer imo.(fun to own mine lasted 8 months,the induction noise stays with you for life though)
the GT3 is a Spa track car. (fun to say you have owned , mine lasted again 8 months)
Add to that while most people seem to have there GT cars tucked up in bed or the 2 BMW are not even usable with this ice on the ground, I have been having fun and using my R every day this holiday.
And last if the OP is more interested in money the R might go up also a tad.
GT3 and CSL are tick box cars for car enthusiasts and while I can see a want for them both as a car enthusiast myself having owned both, you will move them on.
If the use is for weekend drives only, country runs, 2nd/3rd car for special occasion drives, then I would not rate the M cars above a GT3. Though a different person may have a different tolerance level for comfort (higher in an M car) or effort (higher effort required for a manual GT3) or cost (M car is cheaper)
(Not sure how you can conclude that all GT3 owners will move them along after short ownership. Never had the impression you considered yourself the same as any other tom/dick/harry enthusiast
)Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 31st December 14:36
Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 31st December 14:37
I'm not looking for a daily driver in any of the three options.
It would spend most of the winter in the garage.
Summer months I'd love to do a trip to Spa or the Nordschleife and maybe a track day or two near me in Southwest London SW14
I think I've sadly ruled the GT3 out as its a stretch too far financially. Maybe when I reach my 40s
I'm torn between the 1M and CSL,
I like the 1M as it's manual and is a lot newer in terms of maintenace, also how different the 1M looks from other 1 series cars
I like the CSL for its induction noise and carbon intake, its seats and steering wheel, not convinced on the SMG although have never tried it. There's not a lot visually separating the CSL from the E46 M3 from an uneducateds perspective.
Now I've never driven any of the mentioned cars, and I'm sure the above R eads like a 5 year old writing about his school trip to the race track.
It would spend most of the winter in the garage.
Summer months I'd love to do a trip to Spa or the Nordschleife and maybe a track day or two near me in Southwest London SW14
I think I've sadly ruled the GT3 out as its a stretch too far financially. Maybe when I reach my 40s
I'm torn between the 1M and CSL,
I like the 1M as it's manual and is a lot newer in terms of maintenace, also how different the 1M looks from other 1 series cars
I like the CSL for its induction noise and carbon intake, its seats and steering wheel, not convinced on the SMG although have never tried it. There's not a lot visually separating the CSL from the E46 M3 from an uneducateds perspective.
Now I've never driven any of the mentioned cars, and I'm sure the above R eads like a 5 year old writing about his school trip to the race track.
Geesus said:
A Cayman in any guise does absolutely nothing for me, nor does a Boxster. I can't get past their looks to even be interested in how good they might be in other areas.
I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too.
Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box.
Does anyone know what dealer fitted options are compared with factory, it's not a term I've heard before
Below is an ad for a 1M
The car also benefits from the following dealer fitted options:
• BMW Performance carbon fibre boot spoiler
• BMW Performance steering wheel, re-trimmed with matching Kyalami orange stitching
• BMW Performance gloss black kidney grilles
• BMW Performance pedals
• BMW Darkline taillights
• BMW N55 mid pipes (eliminates drone)
• Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (which vastly improves grip!)
Dealer fitted options are out of the catalogue book which usually involves sticking bits to the car locally at the dealer. Things like bike carriers and snow chains etc. In this case a load of BMW performance parts. I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too.
Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box.
Does anyone know what dealer fitted options are compared with factory, it's not a term I've heard before
Below is an ad for a 1M
The car also benefits from the following dealer fitted options:
• BMW Performance carbon fibre boot spoiler
• BMW Performance steering wheel, re-trimmed with matching Kyalami orange stitching
• BMW Performance gloss black kidney grilles
• BMW Performance pedals
• BMW Darkline taillights
• BMW N55 mid pipes (eliminates drone)
• Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (which vastly improves grip!)
Geesus said:
^
Thanks vallance5
So not a detractor at all then in terms of future valuesthen?
Seems strange the factory didn't offer these option considering they're genuine parts
I think they make them dealer fit options as they can be retro fitted at any point whether the car is brand new or not.Thanks vallance5
So not a detractor at all then in terms of future valuesthen?
Seems strange the factory didn't offer these option considering they're genuine parts
Geesus said:
A Cayman in any guise does absolutely nothing for me, nor does a Boxster. I can't get past their looks to even be interested in how good they might be in other areas.
I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too.
Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box.
Can't really say much about the 1M as I never tried one as I couldn't get past the turbo in a M car at the time. By all accounts it is a very nice car though from what I hear from friends who have tried/own one. I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too.
Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box.
The CSL IMO is a great car to drive and sound bloody brilliant, the SMG issues are much overblown as well. It is obviously not as much fun as a good manual but it's nothing as bad as some suggest. Would suggest just changing to braided hoses, proper brake fluid and different pads first and see how you find it before going the whole hog to the BBK conversion. It's also a good thing in my opinion it takes a genuine car person to spot a CSL from the boggo M3 in the first place....
Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 31st December 15:08
keep it lit said:
Ha! Just to throw a spanner in the works...I wonder if one can get UK finance for a car purchased offshore?
Resale in the U.K for a LHD GT3 would be near impossible wouldn't it?
ArcticGT3 said:
The 1M isn't comparable to a CSL/6GT3 imo, it's more on a parr with a Cayman R.
Bottom line is if you've 30K to spend on a toy buy a CSL, if you've 50K buy a 6GT3
Yes.Bottom line is if you've 30K to spend on a toy buy a CSL, if you've 50K buy a 6GT3
I've scratched the 1M itch - sold it earlier this year after 5 months. Looks the part, but hugely overrated IMO.
CSL - had mine nearly 2 years. Always an event to drive. Not too quick so easily usable. SMG has it's own character that needs a little time to grow on you - horrible in normal driving modes but fun when on it. Great seats, induction noise, handling, feel. Doubt a Cayman R would shake a CSL. BMW at it's best.
The GT3 is the one to own though. It's a CSL and a bit more.
isaldiri said:
Can't really say much about the 1M as I never tried one as I couldn't get past the turbo in a M car at the time. By all accounts it is a very nice car though from what I hear from friends who have tried/own one.
The CSL IMO is a great car to drive and sound bloody brilliant, the SMG issues are much overblown as well. It is obviously not as much fun as a good manual but it's nothing as bad as some suggest. Would suggest just changing to braided hoses, proper brake fluid and different pads first and see how you find it before going the whole hog to the BBK conversion. It's also a good thing in my opinion it takes a genuine car person to spot a CSL from the boggo M3 in the first place....
I agree. The CSL is a very good car and, kept the 996 GT3 very honest. I am not denigrating the 1M but the CSL ( when fitted with decent brakes) can circulate a race track all day long without missing a beat and at very similar times to the 996 GT3. Very few cars could or can do that then without falling to bits or having heart failure reasonably quickly. When we took the 996RS to Spa to test the geo set up there was a well driven CSL there driven by a chap called Tony. I think he went on to race a modified CSL in Britcar. His car was a bit modified but not madly and from memory there wasn't a lot of time between the two cars - about 1.5/2 seconds I think. we shared some data traces and it turned out that i was finding a lot of time at eu rouge because I was still accelerating when he was braking. I think that in time, he could have made a bit of that up and reduced the gap. I was hugely impressed with the performance of the CSL. Wherever we went there seemed to be a few being hustled around quite quickly by different drivers. Many had a lot in common with the GT3 drivers of the time in that they were looking for a pure driving experience which was fast and rewarding. thankfully, I do not recall one conversation about stitching during that period.The CSL IMO is a great car to drive and sound bloody brilliant, the SMG issues are much overblown as well. It is obviously not as much fun as a good manual but it's nothing as bad as some suggest. Would suggest just changing to braided hoses, proper brake fluid and different pads first and see how you find it before going the whole hog to the BBK conversion. It's also a good thing in my opinion it takes a genuine car person to spot a CSL from the boggo M3 in the first place....
Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 31st December 15:08
To me the CSL is an extremely good car - probably one of the very best if not the best M car ever built. A true performance car with serious track credentials. I'm sure that the 1M is very good, but it's far too bulky to be able to circulate at the same pace and reliability as a CSL. It would be like driving a boat by comparison. I'd be very happy to have a CSL in my garage. Obviously, i'd prefer a 996GT3 but if I were struggling to find the budget to buy one, a CSL would definitely be my first choice.
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