Heel'n toe in a 997 GT3 RS
Discussion
...so how do you do it??
My approach is the literal keeping the toes on the brake pedal and rotating the lower heel onto the throttle to blip.
I am very comfortable with it in a 996 GT3 or RS - whether on the track or on the road. The pedal position is super sweet and it works well (of course I could further improve my timing, but thats in the detail). I have found this really helps when braking on a damp / slippy surface to maintain a stable rear axle.
However, my problem is that I cannot get used to it in a 997.2 RS. The throttle pedal is too low with respect to the brake pedal and I can't find the throttle with my heel when downshifting. If I try really hard to extend the heel downwards I end up doing a super blip that almost slams into the limiter.
I find the lack of this ability makes me slower in the 997s and on my last outing on a slippy surface I kept getting a twitchy rear axle under harder braking.
Is the solution:
1. keep practicing it will come
2. modify the pedal position e.g. I've read on rennlist that you can bolt a thicker plate on to the throttle pedal to 'raise' its height - although this should work, I am not confortable with making permanent changes to the pedals
3. change the approach to heel and toe - instead of using the heel, use the outside of the foot to blip the throttle whilst keeping the ball of the big toe on the brake. At the moment I am not used to this approach and my feet do not seem wide enough but perhaps wider shoes would help (e.g. some piloti shoes)
Some informed views would be helpful.
Thanks.
Personally, in the past I have always used the technique you describe but I have since found it works better with a top-hinged throttle pedal. For a floor hinged throttle, I am finding that using the side of the ball of your foot for the blip is more effective.
I need to practice in the GT3 more. Heel and toe was more fun in my old Elise and Alfa where you could just give the throttle a quick bang with your heel (because the throttles were top-hinged).
I need to practice in the GT3 more. Heel and toe was more fun in my old Elise and Alfa where you could just give the throttle a quick bang with your heel (because the throttles were top-hinged).
Edited by braddo on Monday 26th January 11:03
LaSource said:
...so how do you do it??
My approach is the literal keeping the toes on the brake pedal and rotating the lower heel onto the throttle to blip.
I am very comfortable with it in a 996 GT3 or RS - whether on the track or on the road. The pedal position is super sweet and it works well (of course I could further improve my timing, but thats in the detail). I have found this really helps when braking on a damp / slippy surface to maintain a stable rear axle.
However, my problem is that I cannot get used to it in a 997.2 RS. The throttle pedal is too low with respect to the brake pedal and I can't find the throttle with my heel when downshifting. If I try really hard to extend the heel downwards I end up doing a super blip that almost slams into the limiter.
I find the lack of this ability makes me slower in the 997s and on my last outing on a slippy surface I kept getting a twitchy rear axle under harder braking.
Is the solution:
1. keep practicing it will come
2. modify the pedal position e.g. I've read on rennlist that you can bolt a thicker plate on to the throttle pedal to 'raise' its height - although this should work, I am not confortable with making permanent changes to the pedals
3. change the approach to heel and toe - instead of using the heel, use the outside of the foot to blip the throttle whilst keeping the ball of the big toe on the brake. At the moment I am not used to this approach and my feet do not seem wide enough but perhaps wider shoes would help (e.g. some piloti shoes)
Some informed views would be helpful.
Thanks.
^ This.My approach is the literal keeping the toes on the brake pedal and rotating the lower heel onto the throttle to blip.
I am very comfortable with it in a 996 GT3 or RS - whether on the track or on the road. The pedal position is super sweet and it works well (of course I could further improve my timing, but thats in the detail). I have found this really helps when braking on a damp / slippy surface to maintain a stable rear axle.
However, my problem is that I cannot get used to it in a 997.2 RS. The throttle pedal is too low with respect to the brake pedal and I can't find the throttle with my heel when downshifting. If I try really hard to extend the heel downwards I end up doing a super blip that almost slams into the limiter.
I find the lack of this ability makes me slower in the 997s and on my last outing on a slippy surface I kept getting a twitchy rear axle under harder braking.
Is the solution:
1. keep practicing it will come
2. modify the pedal position e.g. I've read on rennlist that you can bolt a thicker plate on to the throttle pedal to 'raise' its height - although this should work, I am not confortable with making permanent changes to the pedals
3. change the approach to heel and toe - instead of using the heel, use the outside of the foot to blip the throttle whilst keeping the ball of the big toe on the brake. At the moment I am not used to this approach and my feet do not seem wide enough but perhaps wider shoes would help (e.g. some piloti shoes)
Some informed views would be helpful.
Thanks.
Or buy a 991 GT3/RS
Edit. If you can't do 3 (ie it doesn't feel natural/instinctive) then you could modify the throttle pedal, I'm not sure if the throttle pedal is part of the FBW assembly, if it's not, modify it and buy another pedal come sale time.
I have the same problem with my 964 RS's, here's my fix ......
LaSource said:
...so how do you do it??
My approach is the literal keeping the toes on the brake pedal and rotating the lower heel onto the throttle to blip.
I am very comfortable with it in a 996 GT3 or RS - whether on the track or on the road. The pedal position is super sweet and it works well (of course I could further improve my timing, but thats in the detail). I have found this really helps when braking on a damp / slippy surface to maintain a stable rear axle.
However, my problem is that I cannot get used to it in a 997.2 RS. The throttle pedal is too low with respect to the brake pedal and I can't find the throttle with my heel when downshifting. If I try really hard to extend the heel downwards I end up doing a super blip that almost slams into the limiter.
I find the lack of this ability makes me slower in the 997s and on my last outing on a slippy surface I kept getting a twitchy rear axle under harder braking.
Is the solution:
1. keep practicing it will come
2. modify the pedal position e.g. I've read on rennlist that you can bolt a thicker plate on to the throttle pedal to 'raise' its height - although this should work, I am not confortable with making permanent changes to the pedals
3. change the approach to heel and toe - instead of using the heel, use the outside of the foot to blip the throttle whilst keeping the ball of the big toe on the brake. At the moment I am not used to this approach and my feet do not seem wide enough but perhaps wider shoes would help (e.g. some piloti shoes)
Some informed views would be helpful.
Thanks.
For me it was simply a case of practice, practice and more practice.My approach is the literal keeping the toes on the brake pedal and rotating the lower heel onto the throttle to blip.
I am very comfortable with it in a 996 GT3 or RS - whether on the track or on the road. The pedal position is super sweet and it works well (of course I could further improve my timing, but thats in the detail). I have found this really helps when braking on a damp / slippy surface to maintain a stable rear axle.
However, my problem is that I cannot get used to it in a 997.2 RS. The throttle pedal is too low with respect to the brake pedal and I can't find the throttle with my heel when downshifting. If I try really hard to extend the heel downwards I end up doing a super blip that almost slams into the limiter.
I find the lack of this ability makes me slower in the 997s and on my last outing on a slippy surface I kept getting a twitchy rear axle under harder braking.
Is the solution:
1. keep practicing it will come
2. modify the pedal position e.g. I've read on rennlist that you can bolt a thicker plate on to the throttle pedal to 'raise' its height - although this should work, I am not confortable with making permanent changes to the pedals
3. change the approach to heel and toe - instead of using the heel, use the outside of the foot to blip the throttle whilst keeping the ball of the big toe on the brake. At the moment I am not used to this approach and my feet do not seem wide enough but perhaps wider shoes would help (e.g. some piloti shoes)
Some informed views would be helpful.
Thanks.
My personal technique is to use the ball of my right foot on the brake and then roll the right side over to blip the throttle but I have to change this occasionally when I need to brake harder and apply more pressure to the brake....then I have to use my heel to blip the throttle.
This may help..... http://www.rennline.com/Pedals-Fully-Adjustable/pr...
On a related note, I used to have a VW Beetle (the proper one) with floor mounted pedals and I changed the throttle pedal to a skateboard wheel.....and that was s
t for heel and toe work 
Trev450 said:
I use the outside of the foot method and only have size 7 feet.
I agree that some cars are easier to H&T in due to pedal positioning, but I usually manage ok.
Instead of raising the throttle pedal you could try adjusting the brake pedal slightly lower.
Thanks. I'll look into it though recall reading somewhere that the pedals are no longer adjustable (apart from major surgery/bolt ons/etc)I agree that some cars are easier to H&T in due to pedal positioning, but I usually manage ok.
Instead of raising the throttle pedal you could try adjusting the brake pedal slightly lower.
braddo said:
Personally, in the past I have always used the technique you describe but I have since found it works better with a top-hinged throttle pedal. For a floor hinged throttle, I am finding that using the side of the ball of your foot for the blip is more effective.
I need to practice in the GT3 more. Heel and toe was more fun in my old Elise and Alfa where you could just give the throttle a quick bang with your heel (because the throttles were top-hinged).
I have used both the 996s and an e39 M5 with floor hinged throttles and both are very easy for the 'heel' technique. However it seems for the 997s Porsche used a different set of development drivers. Maybe Walter was busy that day I need to practice in the GT3 more. Heel and toe was more fun in my old Elise and Alfa where you could just give the throttle a quick bang with your heel (because the throttles were top-hinged).
Edited by braddo on Monday 26th January 11:03
Slippydiff said:
^ This.
Or buy a 991 GT3/RS
Edit. If you can't do 3 (ie it doesn't feel natural/instinctive) then you could modify the throttle pedal, I'm not sure if the throttle pedal is part of the FBW assembly, if it's not, modify it and buy another pedal come sale time.
I have the same problem with my 964 RS's, here's my fix ......
Ha! I must admit I did start to realise why the 991 GT3 is likely to be so much quicker with less to worry about in the footwell!Or buy a 991 GT3/RS
Edit. If you can't do 3 (ie it doesn't feel natural/instinctive) then you could modify the throttle pedal, I'm not sure if the throttle pedal is part of the FBW assembly, if it's not, modify it and buy another pedal come sale time.
I have the same problem with my 964 RS's, here's my fix ......
Having said that I love the challenge of learning this in a manual and therefore its no no to a PDK box for now.
At the moment it does not feels natural with the other approach. It feels like I am going to have to learn all over again with a new technique...back to the classroom.
V8KSN said:
On a related note, I used to have a VW Beetle (the proper one) with floor mounted pedals and I changed the throttle pedal to a skateboard wheel.....and that was st for heel and toe work
SNAP!!! LOL! t for heel and toe work Back on topic.. yes.. practice practice and then practice a bit more. I have a very different approach to H&T in the RS than I do in the 993 and even more so than I had in my old Clio182 - The RS is deffo more akin to the 182 than the 993.. More side of foot than heel.
IMO, there is no getting around the issues you mentioned. The brake pedal it too high compared to the throttle pedal (as you have alluded).
my solution (without getting new pedal sets or covers in a 997 RS)
1) cover as little of the brake pedal as you can, so your foot is positioned closer to the throttle
2) brake later so you need to apply more braking force (not always ideal or possible)
3) wear wider shoes. Standard racing shoes are narrow so you may prefer wider and thinner ones
Incidentally, the spongy brake pedal in the vanilla models is why heel and toe is easier. However, the RS comes into it's element on track where they become perfectly positioned under hard use.......
BTW, the rennline adjustable pedals do look the business and I think will be the perfect solution if you still can't get on with heel n toe on normal roads.
my solution (without getting new pedal sets or covers in a 997 RS)
1) cover as little of the brake pedal as you can, so your foot is positioned closer to the throttle
2) brake later so you need to apply more braking force (not always ideal or possible)
3) wear wider shoes. Standard racing shoes are narrow so you may prefer wider and thinner ones
Incidentally, the spongy brake pedal in the vanilla models is why heel and toe is easier. However, the RS comes into it's element on track where they become perfectly positioned under hard use.......
BTW, the rennline adjustable pedals do look the business and I think will be the perfect solution if you still can't get on with heel n toe on normal roads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVHj3sHVHQ
Genie auf Raeder
but turn the tone down - crap music warning
Genie auf Raeder
but turn the tone down - crap music warning
Thanks all for the views.
Some cracking videos there. The Walter Rohrle one is the most amazing/funny.
He is tap dancing on the pedals! Using both feet interchangeably on almost all three pedals!
(...and where did they get the nut case spectators from? Pamplona?)
Looks like I'll be practicing the side of foot technique. Seems quicker as well as there is comparatively less foot movement. Senna made it look so smooth and simple.
...I'll leave the rennlist adjustable pedals as a fall back.
Some cracking videos there. The Walter Rohrle one is the most amazing/funny.
He is tap dancing on the pedals! Using both feet interchangeably on almost all three pedals!
(...and where did they get the nut case spectators from? Pamplona?)
Looks like I'll be practicing the side of foot technique. Seems quicker as well as there is comparatively less foot movement. Senna made it look so smooth and simple.
...I'll leave the rennlist adjustable pedals as a fall back.
I use the ball of my foot on the brake, with the foot angled across to the left a bit. Then you roll the foot so that your heel connects with the lower part of the accelerator pedal. Only works on track though, as I'm never braking hard enough on the road to line the pedals up. Not easy, but practice helps. Occasionally I hit the throttle too hard and the revs go shooting up way too high.
courtesy of those beardy guys in the Advanced Driving forum (sorry DB)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73MvmT5C-ik&fe...
Now that's slick!
Bert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73MvmT5C-ik&fe...
Now that's slick!
Bert
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