997 GT3 Gen 1 Club sport - Anybody know this car ?

[nxi20]

lowndes said:

m33ufo said:

Was that the car I noticed in the classifieds recently at £90K? Look a beauty. Can't be to many around in Riviera.

Yes the colour is not that common. Not sure if it was PTS or special order. UK press car was the same.

I have the "other" RHD Riviera CS - they were PTS. I believe there are only 2 in the country.

[AL001]

Snap..........Good luck in your hunt OP.

[kas750]

Cunno said:

Had a look around this today, looks very clean and Orginal car, some minor stone chips on front and the rear wheels have been refurbished. Looks like it's still on the orginal brake discs as minor lipping which to me suggest this car hasn't seen a track or been driven hard. Sales man didn't know what the RR States was but Sports and Classics are next door so Mike could tell you if anyone interested. If your after a CS this would be worth viewing.

That's good to know Jon.My brother has placed a deposit on this car today subject to an inspection and RR report.

[Zunfolge]

Gents,

Thank you for all the responses it makes for very interesting reading and is appreciated immensely.

Peter

[Zunfolge]

It has been a rather enlightening weekend -

Went to collect the wife's car from the detailers and started talking Porsche again. I see this guy once or twice a year and have used him for many . It turns out he had a white gen 1 997 Club sport in the last 6 or so months that came through his shop with a little history!

Whilst cleaning the under body (forensic cleaning he calls it) he comes across clamp marks from a chassis jig in various locations and chassis creasing. Moving forward he then removes the lights front and rear (I wont mention the tool used for the rear lights ) and finds more evidence of damage inside the light cluster and right rear arch. He says the signs were all over the car of a pretty hard hit . This bloke loves his Porches and has an encyclopaedic memory of the cars he has detailed.

Poor owner of the car was devastated, as it turns out it was sold as accident free and mint.

To make matters worse apparently a Porsche 111 point check did not reveal anything and yet it has been on a jig for straightening without question!!

The detailing guy said he sees it a few times a year with high value cars. He reckons that secondary insurance (track day cover) pays for the repair and its not logged on the cars record.
Well cant be many 997 gen 1 white club sports about. He will send me the details of the car when he has time. PM me if interested in Chassis numbers in the next 2 weeks

Work commitments have forced a trip to the Far East for 9 days which puts a stop to viewing the cars .

Peter Foster

[Upnorthgt3]

Zunfolge said:

It has been a rather enlightening weekend -

Went to collect the wife's car from the detailers and started talking Porsche again. I see this guy once or twice a year and have used him for many . It turns out he had a white gen 1 997 Club sport in the last 6 or so months that came through his shop with a little history!

Whilst cleaning the under body (forensic cleaning he calls it) he comes across clamp marks from a chassis jig in various locations and chassis creasing. Moving forward he then removes the lights front and rear (I wont mention the tool used for the rear lights ) and finds more evidence of damage inside the light cluster and right rear arch. He says the signs were all over the car of a pretty hard hit . This bloke loves his Porches and has an encyclopaedic memory of the cars he has detailed.

Poor owner of the car was devastated, as it turns out it was sold as accident free and mint.

To make matters worse apparently a Porsche 111 point check did not reveal anything and yet it has been on a jig for straightening without question!!

The detailing guy said he sees it a few times a year with high value cars. He reckons that secondary insurance (track day cover) pays for the repair and its not logged on the cars record.
Well cant be many 997 gen 1 white club sports about. He will send me the details of the car when he has time. PM me if interested in Chassis numbers in the next 2 weeks

Work commitments have forced a trip to the Far East for 9 days which puts a stop to viewing the cars .

Peter Foster

Can I ask if you are insinuating that the car is currently for sale and that there is a hidden history? This is based on the comment " not many white .... CS about"

it would be out of order to offer to circulate details of someone else's car if it's currently not for sale and being advertised in a misleading manner - the 'devastated owner' might have no intention of ever selling the car and misleading purchasers as they were mislead

I think this is worth a bit of clarification

Edited by Upnorthgt3 on Monday 23 February 22:59

- poor spelling

Edited by Upnorthgt3 on Monday 23 February 23:00

[Zunfolge]

I fully understand and agree entirely with your comments. Which is exactly why nothing detrimental has been posted until the owner is contacted to establish what is or has happened with the car (apologies to white cs gt3 owners in the interim). If you were buying you would want to know if extra care should be taken during inspection surely ?

As a forum it is in our own interest to help members and make others aware of issues with cars aka gt3 avoidance thread. As I am looking for a car I found it rather interesting and thought I would relay the information. Of course not every 997 gt3 cs has an issue . I do wonder sometimes what the true statistic is for mint cars that have never had an accident vs cars that have had and cars that have been on the jig.
There is a reason why cup cars are half the price of road going versions. --It is expected that a cup car has had a tussle or two. I have no problem buying a car with damage as long as it is explained in detail, as light body damage is vastly different from chassis damage. I am not in the market for a gt3 that has had extensive damage for top dollar. No problem buying a cat c with fully documented build for £35--anyone? Remember the orange RS that sold recently for around the 45 mark. Looked like a decent car for that money

I will endeavour to find out what has happened to the car as I can now see that a blanket statement was possibly not the best way to describe things.

Peter Foster

[pete a]

Zunfolge said:

Which is exactly why nothing detrimental has been posted until the owner is contacted to establish what is or has happened with the car (apologies to white cs gt3 owners in the interim).

I will endeavour to find out what has happened to the car as I can now see that a blanket statement was possibly not the best way to describe things.

Peter Foster

So someone you were talking too, told you a tale about an accident damaged white GT3, you don't know if it is up for sale, or in the guys garage but thought to post it up with no further detail, and now you think it reasonable to contact the owner ( who you don't know from adam) to find out what he has done with the car??? WTF

Good luck with that, oh and if you want a nice GT3 JZM have a lovely one for sale at £96k, or would you rather keep looking for another year?

[Upnorthgt3]

pete a said:

Zunfolge said:

Which is exactly why nothing detrimental has been posted until the owner is contacted to establish what is or has happened with the car (apologies to white cs gt3 owners in the interim).

I will endeavour to find out what has happened to the car as I can now see that a blanket statement was possibly not the best way to describe things.

Peter Foster

So someone you were talking too, told you a tale about an accident damaged white GT3, you don't know if it is up for sale, or in the guys garage but thought to post it up with no further detail, and now you think it reasonable to contact the owner ( who you don't know from adam) to find out what he has done with the car??? WTF

Good luck with that, oh and if you want a nice GT3 JZM have a lovely one for sale at £96k, or would you rather keep looking for another year?

+1

Its one thing to out a dealer (or private seller) who is actually selling a car in full knowledge that it has been repaired as this will protect potential purchasers from unwittingly being sold a dog.

It is another thing entirely to start slinging mud about regarding cars (or their owners), which are not for sale. In fact it is quite wrong and I cannot imagine that the owner in question would be happy to hear from you in any way.

I would be more interested in knowing who the 'professional' detailer you're referring to is, because I want to make damm sure that he comes nowhere near any of my cars at any point in the future - lets have that information - this would be doing the forum a better service than radomnly gossiping and throwing around second hand information as facts - especially the offer to provide chassis numbers to third parties.............that is well below the belt!!

[V8KSN]

Isn't the point of a forum to share information?

[pete a]

V8KSN said:

Isn't the point of a forum to share information?

Hi Kul

Yes it is useful to share info, and i may have been a bit confrontational in my reply reading it back, but thats not info, it's second hand gossip.

I was more shocked that he said he was going to contact the owner of said car and pump him for information on what he did with the car?

[Upnorthgt3]

V8KSN said:

Isn't the point of a forum to share information?

totally agree - 150%...................but surely its not the point of the forum to spread second hand info obtained in such a fashion about some poor chaps car who is already 'devastated' when it serves no good purpose (at this time).

I don't think its appropriate to have a thread along the lines of......'lets list everyone's car who has had an accident and had it repaired, even if its not for sale, 'cos its useful info, just so you know'...........

I know I would be mightily upset if I had taken my car into a 'professional' detailers facility, only to find out afterwards that some third party was circulating my cars chassis number to whoever wanted to know - I think someone would be hearing from guys with curly wigs at that point if it was me

[V8KSN]

pete a said:

I was more shocked that he said he was going to contact the owner of said car and pump him for information on what he did with the car?

Missed that bit! Does sound very silly to do that.

If I went to see a car for sale and spent money on an inspection and it turned out the car had lots of damage and was being sold as mint then I am all for sharing the info to save anyone else a wasted journey.

If I had second hand information for a car that is not even for sale then I would keep it to myself.

[Upnorthgt3]

V8KSN said:

pete a said:

I was more shocked that he said he was going to contact the owner of said car and pump him for information on what he did with the car?

Missed that bit! Does sound very silly to do that.

If I went to see a car for sale and spent money on an inspection and it turned out the car had lots of damage and was being sold as mint then I am all for sharing the info to save anyone else a wasted journey.

If I had second hand information for a car that is not even for sale then I would keep it to myself.

Agree entirely

[V8KSN]

Upnorthgt3 said:

V8KSN said:

Isn't the point of a forum to share information?

totally agree - 150%...................but surely its not the point of the forum to spread second hand info obtained in such a fashion about some poor chaps car who is already 'devastated' when it serves no good purpose (at this time).

I don't think its appropriate to have a thread along the lines of......'lets list everyone's car who has had an accident and had it repaired, even if its not for sale, 'cos its useful info, just so you know'...........

I know I would be mightily upset if I had taken my car into a 'professional' detailers facility, only to find out afterwards that some third party was circulating my cars chassis number to whoever wanted to know - I think someone would be hearing from guys with curly wigs at that point if it was me

Agree with that!

There was a thread here a while back regarding Orange GT3 RS's. They are not that common and there were a couple that were being put up for sale as 'slightly damaged' when in fact they had been severely damaged (one had been rolled and re-shelled then sold through an OPC with no mention of the damage!) That thread would have been a godsend for any potential buyer of a 997.1 GT3 RS in Orange as they were made aware of the history of the cars for sale.

I guess that scenario was different to this one as they were up for sale whereas this one is not.

[Upnorthgt3]

V8KSN said:

Upnorthgt3 said:

V8KSN said:

Isn't the point of a forum to share information?

totally agree - 150%...................but surely its not the point of the forum to spread second hand info obtained in such a fashion about some poor chaps car who is already 'devastated' when it serves no good purpose (at this time).

I don't think its appropriate to have a thread along the lines of......'lets list everyone's car who has had an accident and had it repaired, even if its not for sale, 'cos its useful info, just so you know'...........

I know I would be mightily upset if I had taken my car into a 'professional' detailers facility, only to find out afterwards that some third party was circulating my cars chassis number to whoever wanted to know - I think someone would be hearing from guys with curly wigs at that point if it was me

Agree with that!

There was a thread here a while back regarding Orange GT3 RS's. They are not that common and there were a couple that were being put up for sale as 'slightly damaged' when in fact they had been severely damaged (one had been rolled and re-shelled then sold through an OPC with no mention of the damage!) That thread would have been a godsend for any potential buyer of a 997.1 GT3 RS in Orange as they were made aware of the history of the cars for sale.

I guess that scenario was different to this one as they were up for sale whereas this one is not.

I'm completely on board with identifying the unscrupulous - they get everything they deserve - and I would be very happy if someone on here saved me from buying a dog!!

Its like anything in life - there's a time and a place!!

Now lets get back to rooting out the unscrupulous...................so who is the detailer

haha

[flyboy1]

I was a past owner of the car above which bears a resemblance to the advertised one. The chassis number is WP0ZZZ99Z7S791268.

It showed clear signs of chassis creasing with the under tray removed and right rear wheel arch damage, with no record of Porsche approved repairs.

[Zunfolge]

Sad to hear.

[flyboy1]

Post to follow in GT3 Avoidance thread.... Up to the individual if they want a car with chassis jig marks by unknown repairer.

[flyboy1]

Cunno said:

m33ufo said:

Scooty100 said:

pete a said:

There is another low mileage white clubsport for sale which went on today. I don't know either car but it might be worth a look?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Lovely...Needs Black wheels and pccb imo . Stunning condition

Is there such a thing as to few miles? An average of 1,000 miles a year just raises more questions for me.

Had a look around this today, looks very clean and Orginal car, some minor stone chips on front and the rear wheels have been refurbished. Looks like it's still on the orginal brake discs as minor lipping which to me suggest this car hasn't seen a track or been driven hard. Sales man didn't know what the RR States was but Sports and Classics are next door so Mike could tell you if anyone interested. If your after a CS this would be worth viewing.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-997/porsche-911-gt3-club-sport-car-8426-miles-only/3755959

Back on with a more detailed history and an increase in price compared to the thread above. Was Touristfahren included in road use?