991 Turbo S...

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Chad_Hugo

Original Poster:

649 posts

177 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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I haven't had my 997 Turbo S that long, and as amazing a car it is, I find myself being drawn to the new model, am weighing up options at the moment (would have to sell my car to buy) and considering arranging a test drive in the coming weeks.

The problem is there appear to be so few, (virtually none in fact) reviews/topics/posts from current or past owners on the 991 Turbo S. I've read what the mags have to say..I'm much more interested in real owners who actually bought one and drive the car daily.

Sooo...what are they like?

How do they compare to the 997.2/997 Turbo S? I know it's a slightly heavier car, but apparently further improvements to the PDK, the exhaust note is better (it even seems to have a little V8 like burble), and the performance is even more astonishing or should that be staggering! 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and mile run stock car beats stock Aventador, the 0-60 with road legal tyres in normal conditions, 2.9 seconds in independent tests is incrediblebiggrin The best time for a stock car has been something like 2.7 on track 0-60, for a car that can carry four people, has a 120+ litre boot gets decent fuel economy and you can park anywhere that's not bad goingsmile

If anyone has owned one or had an extended drive I would love to hear about it..

I am growing to like the looks, it has a fair bit more road presence than the 997, lines not as clean or refined/pretty but it's a more impressive car visually and certainly looks good in the right colour, looks more muscular and aggressive on the road.

What are the must have options?

I noticed they all come with small carbon pack as standard, for me the only must have I see is the 991 S alloys vs. the standard Turbo wheels (which I don't like), this was a non cost option apparently. The panoramic sunroof is nice. Very few seem to have the reversing camera which I would like but I'm sure this can be retroffied. Clear tail lights on the 991 are hideous (great on 997), fortunately almost no owners spec this.

Prices wise- what sort of deals are there to be had on these? For a 997 Turbo S from experience- despite it being a rarer car than the 991 S 8%-10% off list price at OPC on 2012 car with two year warranty was certainly achievable, with some negotiation. 2013 991 Turbo S list between 116k-125k- a lot of cars for sale (18!!!), and they seem to take a long time to sell although this may be time of year. Is it the case that 120k for a used Turbo albeit an S is not a price point the market has taken too? I know Porsche sold plenty of cars at 142k-150k new, but that is a different market which is not price sensitive..

Just trying to get a rough handle on what cars are actually changing hands for and what discount is likely if I'm ready to buy. Feel free to PM if you don't want to discuss price on here.


av185

18,434 posts

126 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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Apollo 1?

IMIA

9,410 posts

200 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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I don't think its any quicker day to day than your current steed but its a step up in virtually every other department. Amazing handling for such a big heavy car. The PDK is more refined too and the exhaust note is better. Its bigger than 997 but you do not really notice. The looks are definitely growing on me....I found the £160k with a few options too steep for what it is though i.e. flat 6 turbo vs 458 and Macca 12C - money no object its a no brainer. You'll be blown away by it.

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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991 turbo S is very quick and compared to 997.2 on launch control it leaves you virtually standing. The 997.2 turbo s is by no means slow and in fact annihilates most cars including GT3s, but 991 turbo s is something else.

Weitha few 9e tweeks, I'm sure the already outrageous 997.2 turbo performance would easily surpass the 991. The 9eXX does 0-186 in around 8 seconds ...

The 991 is Nice sounding as well, however not as good as 9e's titanium exhaust with a flap that opens at 4k rpm - 9e vmax runs do not do it justice.

However the elephant in the room is, IMHO, it's ugly rear. I looked, I've driven, I've looked again and not sure even it mother could love that arse. Maybe one day, since the interior is a definite step up and ride is almost witchcraft on those 20s.

DT398

1,745 posts

147 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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I have owned both 997 and 991 turbo S. The 991 kind of goes one better on all fronts but the 997 was also so mind bendingly fast that you be hard pressed to notice any difference in straight line performance. The 991 turns in and corners way better than the 997 and it does sound better and rides better too. Road noise is still there but much improved over the 997 and its overall more refined than the 997 but you'd expect that.

Active aero is good for avoiding scrapes as long as you remember to retract the front splitter before you park up.! It's a stunning car and pretty much unbeatable in most conditions and you couldn't want for a better daily driver (except maybe an F10 M5 which is just more practical).

The elephant in the room is that in the end, once you have got past the neck snapping pace, it's a bit "dull". Really really capable and bonkers fast but it almost drives itself. You just boot it and hang on. That might work for lots of people but it didn't for me. To be honest, the 997 feels like a Porsche, the 991 could be an Audi if that makes any sense. It's also very big.

Great bit of kit if you like the Turbo 911s but it didn't quite do it for me. Looking good value now though as they drop below £120k. They are a hell of a car by any standard.

DT398

1,745 posts

147 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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Two elephants in the room!

rob.kellock

2,213 posts

191 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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I spent an afternoon at the PEC in the November rain driving 997.2 GT3, 991 turbo and 991 turbo S GB special edition.

The S was extraordinary in my opinion. And I don't like Audis.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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DT398 said:
.. To be honest, the 997 feels like a Porsche, the 991 could be an Audi if that makes any sense. It's also very big.
.
The centre console stuff, to me, feels less Porsche and more corporate/Audi. Incredibly competent, but very much "in charge".

Chad_Hugo

Original Poster:

649 posts

177 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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Thanks for the replies- I know the sensible thing to do would be to keep my 997 Turbo S, low miles, high spec, low owner coupe examples are very rare and asking prices haven't really moved since last spring. Took me a good 7 months to find my car, (yes I was being very picky on spec and also wanted a car with warranty)

Just 4 997 Turbo S cars on OPC v.s. 18 for the 991 Turbo S. Does anyone have any rough idea of number produced for the 991? The S used to be a run out model of sorts, the 997 Turbo S wasn't introduced until 2010, a good 4 years into production, while the new one was launched together with the regular Turbo from the start, seems odd. I remember reading it's hard to find a 991 Turbo in some countries as vast majority went for the S (which makes sense), and OPC in the UK do indeed have more S than regular turbo for sale! Seems to rather devalue it, if it's actually the more common car...not that Porsche would care as they make more £ on the more expensive car.

I agree performance in regular fast driving would be no better and the difference is more with the even better launch control due to PDK upgrades, but then again the 997.2 in day to day driving also does not feel any slower than the 997 Turbo S, so it's not all about that for me.

Looks wise I like the 991 a lot, a more imposing and impressive looking car for sure, looks every bit a supercar in the right colour. The 997 is slightly more discreet and has more classic Porsche lines. Both look great ultimately.

Man manths time...if cost to change is under 20k I would seriously consider it- are there deals to be done on the 991 S, what sort of discount, room for negotiation is there? Would not pay 120k, would rather wait a year at that price.....is 110 or under realistic? As I mentioned there seem to be a lot cars for sale not moving.




Edited by Chad_Hugo on Monday 16th March 13:41

TB993tt

2,032 posts

240 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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tjlees said:
The 9eXX does 0-186 in around 8 seconds ...
Lol


tjlees said:
9e's titanium exhaust with a flap that opens at 4k rpm
.
Lol X 2

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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I got invited to test drive the 991 Turbo S on the road and at some place in Surrey where they had a high speed bowl.

It is such an excellent all rounder, like a Golf R when pootling round then a monster on a B road. However, it also felt far too refined and - because of this - it felt no faster (actually slower, IMO) than the 997 Turbo Sas it was less of an event.

With the 997, there is that struggle to contain the power. The ride is also firm...it feels like a sports car. It's laugh out loud fast, whereas the 991 was impressive, but not exciting. However, i accept perhaps on the track the 991 may come into its own.

I wouldn't be worried about keeping the 997 because it's rare though. The only special models are the GT cars. Just have whichever you prefer (and can afford!). Thinking about it, a 991 Turbo S and a Cayman GT4 (or 997 GT3) would be a fantastic pairing.

ManFromDelmonte

2,742 posts

179 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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The forthcoming McLaren P13 is definitely going to be worth a look vs the Turbo S.

Edited by ManFromDelmonte on Tuesday 17th March 08:14

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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DT398 said:
Two elephants in the room!
both too fat and too fast! banghead

DragonRR

4 posts

108 months

Tuesday 17th March 2015
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I have owned a 2014 991 Turbo S for around six months now. I've been lucky enough to have had several fast cars in the past - M5 F10, M6, RS6 C7 (prior to the 911) and so on and I've test driven the 997 Turbo S and a 997 Turbo both just before I bought the M5.

In my opinion the 991 just blows all my previous cars (and TDs) out of the water for looks (subjective I know), handling and power. It is shockingly, brutally quick 0-60 and just keeps pulling. Sport Plus mode is ridiculous. Grip from standstill and around corners is astonishing. I'm told that the GT3 is more "fun". Two wheel drove often is. My M5 was fun... sometimes the back end would slide out at junctions.. that was fun. The M5 got stuck in snow. I drove the 911 uphill in thick snow with summer tyres. I got out accelerated by an S5 in the M5 in rain... I did love the M5 though.

The 991 is larger than the 997 as you will all probably know and I've actually managed to cram four large adults in the car (just). The interior is a major step up from the 997, I have the brushed aluminium trim which I'm not normally a fan of but it looks great in the Porsche.

The "moon" roof looks good on the car and in most respects is nice to have but you do get the odd rattle from it depending on the temps. I have had a LOT of niggles with the car almost all being rattles. I've been told that I've been very unlucky with this and to be fair I haven't come across many other owners with rattles. The niggles were so numerous that I got to the point of taking the car back but decided to keep it in the end and rely on the dealer and some trusty microfiber cloth (yes really) to fix the problems.

I would normally already have the next car lined up by now but the 911 is just too good. I cannot think of a car less than 300k that I would rather have. Brilliant car although not "quite" as practical as the RS6 smile

EDIT:
I don't have the reverse camera. I did some checks myself about having one retrofitted. It can be done but not by Porsche (not when I checked anyway) and the only one I've seen on a US forum was bloody awful.

Edited by DragonRR on Tuesday 17th March 23:23

Chad_Hugo

Original Poster:

649 posts

177 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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Thanks for that- very interesting. What was the source of the rattles if you don't mind me asking?

I note the bit about not wanting to swap it for any car out there under 300k- I have to say I agree and feel very much the same about my 997 Turbo S, other than a 991 Turbo S I really can't think of anything with the power/practicality/looks/relative value for money. I've had my car for a few months now, I am still amazed by the sheer force and relentlessness of the acceleration- going from leisurely cruising speed to well into triple figures is ridiculously easy and the car just feels so assured while doing it, it's a bit of a strange sensation how stable and planted it feels at bonkers speeds, makes you question where the cars limit is. Certainly you can't reach it on our roads!!

I need a car that I can take/park anywhere, as much as I enjoyed the 458 Italia I drove in Italy, it's not something I am interested in owing or driving in the UK. Previous car was a C63 PP+ so I have had a RWD mental big V8 car recently enough. Good fun, but the Porsche is a massive step up in every way.

Will have a look at a 991 S in the coming weeks...

They probably have one more fairly sizeable drop in value, and then will stay at that price for some time I imagine. It's all relative, a very lightly used 991C4S Targa at 102k+ makes the Turbo S feel like a bargain!!





Edited by Chad_Hugo on Thursday 19th March 12:05

DragonRR

4 posts

108 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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It would be more of what wasn't the source... however::

Both rear quarter panel trim pieces, loud rattle. Fxed with a couple of microfibre cloths shoved into the each seat belt slot. One was later done properly, I haven't had chance to get the other one done and probably won't bother.
Passenger side door rattle, took 3 attempts and it still comes back a little on rough roads.
Rear seat hinge in middle, sort of plasticky ticking noise
Rear seat child ISO fixing plastic velcro whatsits. Weird rattle. I fixed this myself with some felt.
Wiring loom behind rear seats.
Sunroof rattles - apparently a known problem caused by dealers cleaning out the oil from the seals. It doesn't really make sense that the noise would appear as a rattle but it does. Fixable with a special oil on the seals. It was done a couple of times by the dealer and then I've done it myself twice since. It may now be oiled enough to last.
Sunroof blind - still does light rattling sometimes, not a big issue.
Driver and passenger seat back lever, constant but quiet rattle. They are now fixed but quite stiff in use.
Trim next to the drivers side passenger seat belt slot.
Glove box rattle - I actually think this was fixed with a Porsche business card! You can just see the edge of something.
Glove box cup holder drop down trim hinge. Surprisingly loud rattle once it started. Fixed myself with some 3 in 1 oil.
Center console intermittent rattle. No idea how they fixed this or managed to find it.

So not many smile

I would suggest you test drive one, stick it in Sport Plus and see what you think.

Edited by DragonRR on Thursday 19th March 18:10

IMIA

9,410 posts

200 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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DragonRR said:
It would be more of what wasn't the source... however::

Both rear quarter panel trim pieces, loud rattle. Fxed with a couple of microfibre cloths shoved into the each seat belt slot. One was later done properly, I haven't had chance to get the other one done and probably won't bother.
Passenger side door rattle, took 3 attempts and it still comes back a little on rough roads.
Rear seat hinge in middle, sort of plasticky ticking noise
Rear seat child ISO fixing plastic velcro whatsits. Weird rattle. I fixed this myself with some felt.
Wiring loom behind rear seats.
Sunroof rattles - apparently a known problem caused by dealers cleaning out the oil from the seals. It doesn't really make sense that the noise would appear as a rattle but it does. Fixable with a special oil on the seals. It was done a couple of times by the dealer and then I've done it myself twice since. It may now be oiled enough to last.
Sunroof blind - still does light rattling sometimes, not a big issue.
Driver and passenger seat back lever, constant but quiet rattle. They are now fixed but quite stiff in use.
Trim next to the drivers side passenger seat belt slot.
Glove box rattle - I actually think this was fixed with a Porsche business card! You can just see the edge of something.
Glove box cup holder drop down trim hinge. Surprisingly loud rattle once it started. Fixed myself with some 3 in 1 oil.
Center console intermittent rattle. No idea how they fixed this or managed to find it.

So not many smile

I would suggest you test drive one, stick it in Sport Plus and see what you think.

Edited by DragonRR on Thursday 19th March 18:10
Its not just your car. I had a 991 turbo S lent to me for a week and it had rattles all over the car.

Doesn't bother me to be honest as I just turn the stereo up and put my foot on the gas. It is ridiculous that a £160k car has so many rattles in it. By way of comparison we have a 2008 Landcruiser and not a sqeak or rattle and its driven on some of the worst roads in the world! Same with a 2015 Polo we use as a run around. Not a rattle!

Our 2007 997 turbo has been pretty good but has developed a rattle behind the PCM unit in the last year! Porsche, sort it out!!

r1flyguy1

1,567 posts

175 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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IMIA said:
Our 2007 997 turbo has been pretty good but has developed a rattle behind the PCM unit in the last year! Porsche, sort it out!!
My rear view mirror vibrates over most road surfaces and drives me crazy, several times I've asked the OPC to check it whilst it's been in for service etc, but they never do anything about it as they (although I do too) believe it's not covered under the warranty.

It's either buy a new complete unit or use a thick elastic band

MrTickle

1,825 posts

238 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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Without knowing the full specifics of spec etc. it is tricky to be too accurate - but I would imagine you would be nearer £40K for a CTC than £20K, which may just rule it out for you at the moment anyway?

DragonRR

4 posts

108 months

Friday 20th March 2015
quotequote all
The original (red) 911 991 TTS I tried was pretty solid, no rattles on the same roads I normally drive on. Obviously when I say no rattles I don't mean no noises.. just nothing that resonates. I've driven a few Caymans and only one of those had a rattle. The fact that both rear trim quarter panels on my 911 had the same type of rattle and were both fixable using a simple piece of Microfibre cloth makes me wonder how Porsche can miss stuff like that. However Porsche have agreed to fix all of the rattles under warranty so it could have been worse.

Resonating rattles in cars do my head in if they are noticeable. The RS6 C7 I had before getting the 911 had a couple of minor ones which were both fixed, I've never really had a rattle in a BMW. Our Citroen vans at work are rock solid which is pretty surprising considering their treatment! I don't expect a Porsche to completely silent over bumps I just expect it not to rattle like a bag of ******** bolts.

I test drove a new Mercedes SL63 AMG Coupe a few months back. Surprisingly it had a dash rattle.