Desperately seeking 996...!
Discussion
thegoose said:
I know them well, Jonny started me racing 10 years ago (and came to a lot of the meetings to support me for free in my first year) and in the 6 years I raced my 911SC and 964 they looked after me well and provided cars with a 100% reliability record (which continued when I raced for Hartech - well over 100 races over 9 seasons and no breakdowns at all).
Unit 11 will look after you well and can set the car up how you want it, but I have to say that for any mechanical engine work on a non-mezger 9x6 or 9x7 engine (which I know you hope you won't ever need) I'd always use Hartech - just a short tour of their place is an easy demonstration of how much experience they have and how involved they are in the development of solutions to these engines, and as far as I'm aware it's unrivalled.
Fingers crossed the inspection goes well, you buy the car and then get on with enjoying without worrying about it.
Jonny did the PPI on my first 964 (after I'd bought it - numpty mistake!) & looked after that one, my 944 Turbo & my last 964 too, so I trust them completely but I'm wondering whether to get the car (if I buy it) back onto the Hartech scheme as they know these cars so well, as you say.Unit 11 will look after you well and can set the car up how you want it, but I have to say that for any mechanical engine work on a non-mezger 9x6 or 9x7 engine (which I know you hope you won't ever need) I'd always use Hartech - just a short tour of their place is an easy demonstration of how much experience they have and how involved they are in the development of solutions to these engines, and as far as I'm aware it's unrivalled.
Fingers crossed the inspection goes well, you buy the car and then get on with enjoying without worrying about it.
appletonn said:
Jonny did the PPI on my first 964 (after I'd bought it - numpty mistake!) & looked after that one, my 944 Turbo & my last 964 too, so I trust them completely but I'm wondering whether to get the car (if I buy it) back onto the Hartech scheme as they know these cars so well, as you say.
I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed.boxsey said:
I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed.
I agree Steve, I may not have put it very well but what I meant was that Unit 11 can definitely look after the car properly but if there's an internal engine issue I'd take either the engine or the whole car (whatever's most convenient really) to Hartech - they're the experts on these engines.Of course, fingers crossed the engine won't ever cause any problems. I feel like this is sounding like a scene from The Godfather now "all I ask is that one day, and that day may never come......"
boxsey said:
I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed.
Trouble is Steve, that Unit 11 don't rebuild the 'kettles'& putting £80pm away into the Hartech scheme to cover me totally for a potential £5-6k labour bill for an engine rebuild at any point in the first 12 months, as opposed to finding £9k for a rebuild via Jonny, seems like the safer bet for a 996?If I had the space I'd be hunting out a nice early 996 C2 in boring silver on ambers and maybe even 17's.
I'd park it up and forget about it, the values will go North very soon in my opinion.
Read the reports when it was launched, every pundit raved about it saying how much better it was than the 993 it replaced. They are a fantastic very capable understated cars. Just try and find a nice un-molested one.....
I'd park it up and forget about it, the values will go North very soon in my opinion.
Read the reports when it was launched, every pundit raved about it saying how much better it was than the 993 it replaced. They are a fantastic very capable understated cars. Just try and find a nice un-molested one.....
By the time the car has had the first qualifying service and then the monthly planned payments the outlay seems to be about 2k. That in itself would cover the labour cost of rebuilding an engine but the other cost for liners etc would still have to be paid on top iirc? No way would the labour bill be 5-6k.
I think the pre 2001 cars stack up very well on the reliability front, its the post 2001 cars I would be wary of, although if Porsche continues offering cheap exchange short engines they do start to look good value.
[/quote
I think the pre 2001 cars stack up very well on the reliability front, its the post 2001 cars I would be wary of, although if Porsche continues offering cheap exchange short engines they do start to look good value.
appletonn said:
boxsey said:
I can see where you're coming from but Unit 11 also look after a lot of water cooled 911s these days and will still be able to do any jobs that need to be done. I guess you either put money into a warranty plan with Hartech that will look after the car or you put the money aside to spend at Unit 11 in case it's ever needed.
Trouble is Steve, that Unit 11 don't rebuild the 'kettles'& putting £80pm away into the Hartech scheme to cover me totally for a potential £5-6k labour bill for an engine rebuild at any point in the first 12 months, as opposed to finding £9k for a rebuild via Jonny, seems like the safer bet for a 996?[/quote
Edited by ras62 on Friday 24th April 12:44
ras62 said:
Trouble is Steve, that Unit 11 don't rebuild the 'kettles'& putting £80pm away into the Hartech scheme to cover me totally for a potential £5-6k labour bill for an engine rebuild at any point in the first 12 months, as opposed to finding £9k for a rebuild via Jonny, seems like the safer bet for a 996?
[/quote
By the time the car has had the first qualifying service and then the monthly planned payments the outlay seems to be about 2k. That in itself would cover the labour cost of rebuilding an engine but the other cost for liners etc would still have to be paid on top iirc? No way would the labour bill be 5-6k.
I think the pre 2001 cars stack up very well on the reliability front, its the post 2001 cars I would be wary of, although if Porsche continues offering cheap exchange short engines they do start to look good value.
Well Hartech are telling me that to rebuild the 996 motor 'properly', with 6 new Cylinder inserts, IMS etc, the parts costs would be £3-4k & around £4-5k in labour. [/quote
By the time the car has had the first qualifying service and then the monthly planned payments the outlay seems to be about 2k. That in itself would cover the labour cost of rebuilding an engine but the other cost for liners etc would still have to be paid on top iirc? No way would the labour bill be 5-6k.
I think the pre 2001 cars stack up very well on the reliability front, its the post 2001 cars I would be wary of, although if Porsche continues offering cheap exchange short engines they do start to look good value.
Depends on the extent of the rebuild - if just strip down & chuck it back together with new gaskets & bearings, then possibly £2k labour bill might be realistic, but if I want all of the weak points dealt with whilst it's apart, then I would estimate double that.
Apparently all of the 'cheap' short engines from Porsche have now all gone - in any case, these will still have all of the same weak points present & correct, whereas the Hartech route should at least give me the new cylinders with the stiffer 'closed deck' arrangement, along with stronger IMS etc.
I would happily buy a 996 to run alongside my 993 because they do always look like bargains to me. But I guess I would be seeking three magic words if possible.....
"Haretech engine rebuild"
Like this..............
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-996-2003-Car...
Although sadly not a mark one. I don't think
"Haretech engine rebuild"
Like this..............
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-996-2003-Car...
Although sadly not a mark one. I don't think
A993LAD said:
I would happily buy a 996 to run alongside my 993 because they do always look like bargains to me. But I guess I would be seeking three magic words if possible.....
"Haretech engine rebuild"
Like this..............
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-996-2003-Car...
Although sadly not a mark one. I don't think
I was talking ot Tobias (Hartech workshop manager) about this earlier & he was saying how he sees adverts that state 'Hartech engine rebuild' but you don't know (without checking with Hartech) exactly the extent of the rebuild, ie was a cheap & cheerful job with fresh gaskets to stop oil leaks but leaving the original weak spots intact, the replacement of just 1 cracked cyclinder rather than all 6, or was it the Rolls-Royce option with 6 new cylinders, IMS fix etc!"Haretech engine rebuild"
Like this..............
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-996-2003-Car...
Although sadly not a mark one. I don't think
Buyer beware I guess!
edh said:
Great idea Nick... 996 C2 3.4 (with ambers..) is going to be a classic, and I hope it will be affordable for years to come.
Which is what I did - I bought it thinking 'it won't get any cheaper' if it goes up in value that would be fantastic!Crimp said:
If I had the space I'd be hunting out a nice early 996 C2 in boring silver on ambers and maybe even 17's.
I'd park it up and forget about it, the values will go North very soon in my opinion.
Read the reports when it was launched, every pundit raved about it saying how much better it was than the 993 it replaced. They are a fantastic very capable understated cars. Just try and find a nice un-molested one.....
Black, it will be the black ones that shoot up in value I'd park it up and forget about it, the values will go North very soon in my opinion.
Read the reports when it was launched, every pundit raved about it saying how much better it was than the 993 it replaced. They are a fantastic very capable understated cars. Just try and find a nice un-molested one.....
appletonn said:
Well Hartech are telling me that to rebuild the 996 motor 'properly', with 6 new Cylinder inserts, IMS etc, the parts costs would be £3-4k & around £4-5k in labour.
Depends on the extent of the rebuild - if just strip down & chuck it back together with new gaskets & bearings, then possibly £2k labour bill might be realistic, but if I want all of the weak points dealt with whilst it's apart, then I would estimate double that.
Apparently all of the 'cheap' short engines from Porsche have now all gone - in any case, these will still have all of the same weak points present & correct, whereas the Hartech route should at least give me the new cylinders with the stiffer 'closed deck' arrangement, along with stronger IMS etc.
I guess we wouldn't expect them to say any different!Depends on the extent of the rebuild - if just strip down & chuck it back together with new gaskets & bearings, then possibly £2k labour bill might be realistic, but if I want all of the weak points dealt with whilst it's apart, then I would estimate double that.
Apparently all of the 'cheap' short engines from Porsche have now all gone - in any case, these will still have all of the same weak points present & correct, whereas the Hartech route should at least give me the new cylinders with the stiffer 'closed deck' arrangement, along with stronger IMS etc.
Does this mean if you get one that they agree is OK to go on their plan that you'll get a 'proper' rebuild if it goes bang and it won't cost you anything except your monthly payments?
boxsey said:
I guess we wouldn't expect them to say any different!
Does this mean if you get one that they agree is OK to go on their plan that you'll get a 'proper' rebuild if it goes bang and it won't cost you anything except your monthly payments?
If it's on the plan & it goes bang, you 'just' pay for the parts costs - roughly £3-4k, depending on how much destruction the whole 'going bang' scenario has caused! The plan covers all labour costs for servicing, repairs etc.Does this mean if you get one that they agree is OK to go on their plan that you'll get a 'proper' rebuild if it goes bang and it won't cost you anything except your monthly payments?
It will give me some peace of mind & I intend to keep a 'warchest' of £3k set aside for the fateful day & then get it rebuilt with the 6 proper Hartech barrels that make it far more structurally rigid & perhap[s stick a lightweight flywheel in there for good measure.
Best laid plans & all that !!
4-5k is what 80-100 manhours, either that or the hourly rates are £100/hour. Either way that's a lot. The figures don't add up imo, I would rather buy a 3.4 and keep the money for regular servicing and consumables.
The cost of the Rolls Royce rebuild would be a customer preference so one would presume at the customer cost?
The cost of the Rolls Royce rebuild would be a customer preference so one would presume at the customer cost?
appletonn said:
monthefish said:
appletonn said:
thegoose said:
Get on Hartech's plan if it'll give you peace of mind.
The car is currently on the Hartech plan & has been for around 12 yrs, but it's apparently no longer transferable.Do you know who it was you spoke to?
I would have to put the car through their Gold Major service again in order to be accepted back onto the scheme in my name, as it were!
Their stance was always that a well maintained car (by them) is likely to cost less to run in the long run, and there's a kind of shared ownership in the car's good health, i.e. its in both parties' best interest for the car to be well maintained.
On that basis, a car that has been with Hartech for 12 years is likely to be a very well maintained example, and therefore should be a better prospect for them to have on the scheme than, say, a car with 20k less miles but with a more sketchy service history with past maintenance by Tom, Dick and Harry.
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