997.1 turbo spark plug change
Discussion
My 2007 997.1 turbo is at an OPC having a major service which, according to the menu pricing, includes a spark plug change. I have received a mail indicating that the tech is having problems with plugs 5 and 6 as these are on the near side behind the turbo actuator. Seemingly to remove the turbo actuator the heat shields also need to be removed. However, I am told that because the nuts and bolts are badly corroded "we will be unable to do this without carrying out some in depth work......... And,...... We have had to give up". It goes on to say...."we can quote for the additional work or for the moment we can monitor the performance of the plugs and replace them if they become a problem"
Am concerned on two levels, firstly that a menu priced item can become inflated as a result of such a minor issue, after all the plugs were changed 4 years ago and the car has only done around 15,000 miles since then. Smearing the bolts in grease at that time would have prevented the corrosion and I am surprised that simple engineering practices aren't utilised to tackle this issue. Secondly, leaving the plugs and monitoring them is all well and good but if the engine let's go or a plug breaks up then I can't see the warranty company paying out.
Anyone else had similar issues? If so, how was the situation resolved?
Am concerned on two levels, firstly that a menu priced item can become inflated as a result of such a minor issue, after all the plugs were changed 4 years ago and the car has only done around 15,000 miles since then. Smearing the bolts in grease at that time would have prevented the corrosion and I am surprised that simple engineering practices aren't utilised to tackle this issue. Secondly, leaving the plugs and monitoring them is all well and good but if the engine let's go or a plug breaks up then I can't see the warranty company paying out.
Anyone else had similar issues? If so, how was the situation resolved?
I suspect working under car ..ie suspension , engine , exhaust etc on any six or seven year old porsche that has been used all year round will create anguish for the tech ( and ultimately the owner) due to corrosion, seized bolts and fittings. I blame this on poor quality material spec allowing easy onset of corrosion. Check under any VAG group car of the same age and you won't find anything like the level of corrosion making them ultimately easier to work on .I'm always banging on about it to my local OPC in the vain hope Porsche as a company will respond and improve matters. Porsche no doubt make great cars ,the original owner benefitting greatly...further down the line ownership can be testing due to silly expensive repairs exaggerated by poor material choice. A simple answer would be the use of copaslip on bolt threads during manufacture to prevent corrosion. Can't see that happening ...so anytime a bolt undone it pays to lubricate the threads before refitting , at least then you'll have the confidence it will be removable if needed in the future. Turned into a bit of a rant here but running Porsche's for the last 15 years ( unfortunately never new) I've suffered many times from seized parts.. Come on Porsche let's live up to your claim ( 1st page of handbook) "Porsche , engineering excellence" ....rant over feel better now. Ian
Polome said:
I suspect working under car ..ie suspension , engine , exhaust etc on any six or seven year old porsche that has been used all year round will create anguish for the tech ( and ultimately the owner) due to corrosion, seized bolts and fittings. I blame this on poor quality material spec allowing easy onset of corrosion. Check under any VAG group car of the same age and you won't find anything like the level of corrosion making them ultimately easier to work on .I'm always banging on about it to my local OPC in the vain hope Porsche as a company will respond and improve matters. Porsche no doubt make great cars ,the original owner benefitting greatly...further down the line ownership can be testing due to silly expensive repairs exaggerated by poor material choice. A simple answer would be the use of copaslip on bolt threads during manufacture to prevent corrosion. Can't see that happening ...so anytime a bolt undone it pays to lubricate the threads before refitting , at least then you'll have the confidence it will be removable if needed in the future. Turned into a bit of a rant here but running Porsche's for the last 15 years ( unfortunately never new) I've suffered many times from seized parts.. Come on Porsche let's live up to your claim ( 1st page of handbook) "Porsche , engineering excellence" ....rant over feel better now. Ian
Pretty sure Porsche is a VAG group car.
I'd insist on them giving the car back at no charge and then send to someone who can service it. Its not your fault the bloody bolts have corroded. As someone's said they should be using better materials. When my cars in for a service I'm going to get all the bolts changed to brass bolts around the exhaust, headers, turbos, heat shields etc. My wheel bolts have started rusting lol. Had a quote for titanium wheel bolts at $800 
£100k car with sub standard grade iron all over the place! Jokers...
£100k car with sub standard grade iron all over the place! Jokers...
Hmmm. I tend to agree with the last post, if they can't complete the job then you should not pay for it. The menu lists a price for a package of work - it's a contract. If they can't fulfill the contract they can't charge you for it unless you agree to a compromise.
I also have to admit I find the excuse very poor. Its an 8 year old car, I've had some corroded bolts on a 20 year old car removed with some heat, a bit of spray and a few tools. Sounds to me like they just gave up as it was a bit harder than they had planned, or perhaps the tech was inexperienced and ran out of time (they are on a clock).
I've had some fun and games with OPCs. One left my turbo pipes off after changing the belts and tried to claim it wasn't their fault. Another claimed a turbo was seized at a cost of thousands, until they found out it was under warranty and then a little "special grease" was used to make it work like new. And the same one won't change the coil packs on our Cayenne GTS under warranty as although they are failing infrequently they claim they can't replicate it when it's there, but would be happy for us to pay for them to be changed as a "preventative measure". And a friend of ours had to escalate an issue to Porsche GB and a solicitor to get a set of coolant lines replaced as they tried to claim they weren't a "warranty item".
My advice would be to push back. Suggest that if they can't complete the menu service then you will take it back at no cost and take it to an indy that will do it for less as they can't complete the contracted work. If they want to try again you would be happy to let them, but it's at their cost and risk. And make sure you get the plugs changed, after 4 years and 15k miles it will thank you for it.
I also have to admit I find the excuse very poor. Its an 8 year old car, I've had some corroded bolts on a 20 year old car removed with some heat, a bit of spray and a few tools. Sounds to me like they just gave up as it was a bit harder than they had planned, or perhaps the tech was inexperienced and ran out of time (they are on a clock).
I've had some fun and games with OPCs. One left my turbo pipes off after changing the belts and tried to claim it wasn't their fault. Another claimed a turbo was seized at a cost of thousands, until they found out it was under warranty and then a little "special grease" was used to make it work like new. And the same one won't change the coil packs on our Cayenne GTS under warranty as although they are failing infrequently they claim they can't replicate it when it's there, but would be happy for us to pay for them to be changed as a "preventative measure". And a friend of ours had to escalate an issue to Porsche GB and a solicitor to get a set of coolant lines replaced as they tried to claim they weren't a "warranty item".
My advice would be to push back. Suggest that if they can't complete the menu service then you will take it back at no cost and take it to an indy that will do it for less as they can't complete the contracted work. If they want to try again you would be happy to let them, but it's at their cost and risk. And make sure you get the plugs changed, after 4 years and 15k miles it will thank you for it.
Hi and thanks for the advice. Went to have a look at the car today whilst it was on the ramps. Must admit some of the nuts and bolts looked as though they were made of cheese and I could pull chunks off them. Still, in my view, it is a menu fixed price item irrespective of the age of the car and should be completed within the time/price set. As others, not my fault the components are made of cheese and porsche should take this into account when they set prices/maintenance times. Furthermore, they should have used grease and new items when the job was done 4 years ago. For a car that isn't used in winter and has done minimal miles it is a pretty poor show from a quality perspective.
andyglos said:
Hi and thanks for the advice. Went to have a look at the car today whilst it was on the ramps. Must admit some of the nuts and bolts looked as though they were made of cheese and I could pull chunks off them. Still, in my view, it is a menu fixed price item irrespective of the age of the car and should be completed within the time/price set. As others, not my fault the components are made of cheese and porsche should take this into account when they set prices/maintenance times. Furthermore, they should have used grease and new items when the job was done 4 years ago. For a car that isn't used in winter and has done minimal miles it is a pretty poor show from a quality perspective.
Is your turbo left outside? My wheel bolts rusted within 12 months of the car moving from the garage to the drive. Not driven much nowadays either.They can be a bit of a pig to remove when heavily corroded. However, heat and the use of grip-sockets made for exactly this type of issue always work. I'm surprised they haven't been able to do it. Oh, don't use stainless fasteners on any part of your exhaust. They are brittle and can crack after a few heat cycles, and also tend to bind up on removal, proving more difficult to remove than the original 8.5 grade mild steel originals...
Whenever I have work carried out by OPC I make sure I have their loan car. I am sure they get the job done on time to get their car back and also if they need it for an extended period they will leave me in the loan car until work is complete.
My turbo is an 07 , just had a major with plug change with no added problems apparently. If OPC were to ring me suggesting an issue changing plugs I would expect them to do the job and charge me for new nuts/bolts/heat shields etc as required. Ultimately the job will need doing so can't see any point delaying. It surprises me the varied attitude towards things like this by different OPC. I use Cambridge and have always found their approach to my satisfaction. When my C2 was in for service they rang to say it had a slight exhaust leak and would recommend new clamps, bolts gaskets etc. they had to cut most of the fixings off and did the job with parts for a fixed price that I thought very reasonable at the time. Hope you get it sorted, I'm going to have a look at mine and see if heat shields etc have been changed ??
My turbo is an 07 , just had a major with plug change with no added problems apparently. If OPC were to ring me suggesting an issue changing plugs I would expect them to do the job and charge me for new nuts/bolts/heat shields etc as required. Ultimately the job will need doing so can't see any point delaying. It surprises me the varied attitude towards things like this by different OPC. I use Cambridge and have always found their approach to my satisfaction. When my C2 was in for service they rang to say it had a slight exhaust leak and would recommend new clamps, bolts gaskets etc. they had to cut most of the fixings off and did the job with parts for a fixed price that I thought very reasonable at the time. Hope you get it sorted, I'm going to have a look at mine and see if heat shields etc have been changed ??
Hi Steve,
I did have a very nice 991 GTS for a day and a half but now have a pretty basic boxster. Ah well.
On the exhaust clamps that you mentioned that attracted an amber advisory on mine. Am told it is £513 to replace corroded and split exhaust clamps. Is this in line with what you paid?
I will be waiting for a call on the spark plug issue on Monday.
I did have a very nice 991 GTS for a day and a half but now have a pretty basic boxster. Ah well.
On the exhaust clamps that you mentioned that attracted an amber advisory on mine. Am told it is £513 to replace corroded and split exhaust clamps. Is this in line with what you paid?
I will be waiting for a call on the spark plug issue on Monday.
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