991 GT3 whooped by 991 Turbo S Silverstone yesterday

[TrackTwit]

Kav1 said:

TrackTwit said:

One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer!
After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo?

Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11

TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sonetime.

Ahhhhh, hello, glad to see you on here. He was chuffed to nuts with the battle, but still sulking last night that you had the edge!! It clearly shows how capable both cars are, the Turbo S probably continues to surpirse people.
We tend to do 5 or 6 days out per season, including a Spa trip at least once. Join in, you would be most welcome.
I dont believe I will get my RS much this side of Christmas, so I will be running my Exige V6 430 this season.

[Robbo66]

Seriously, who cares.

Its how it makes you feel, not 2/10ths on a track.

[ORD]

Am I missing something? The Turbo S SHOULD be faster. It has way more power and torque and is not a huge amount heavier.

But lots of people don't want a massive turbo sports barge in their garage, no matter how quick it is.

[sidicks]

ORD said:

Am I missing something? The Turbo S SHOULD be faster. It has way more power and torque and is not a huge amount heavier.

But lots of people don't want a massive turbo sports barge in their garage, no matter how quick it is.

Turbo S = 560bhp, 1605Kg (DIN)
GT3 = 475bhp, 1430Kg (DIN)
(manufacturer's published figures)

So it has about 17.5% more power and it has about 12.2% more weight. Power to weight ratio is barely 5% difference (349bhp/tonne v 332bhp/tonne).

[TrackTwit]

So, a question for all........... If you had both in the garage, which one would you take on a trip to Spa and the Ring?
I am thinking probably GT3 but that could be becuase I have done the whole Turbo thing with loads of track days (and it was a brilliant machine on the track, run with Cups and Alcons) but still need to scratch the GT itch.

I have a friend who lives very near me, bought a 991 Turbo S and had it flogged at JZ within 2 weeks, hated it, now running 991 GT3.
Perhaps the ultimate Marmite car? Turbo S?

[sidicks]

TrackTwit said:

So, a question for all........... If you had both in the garage, which one would you take on a trip to Spa and the Ring?

I think in previous years, owning both a Turbo and a GT3 (or the same model) would have made perfect sense as they'd provide a quite different experience. I think that in the 991 and to a lesser extent in the 997, their usage overlaps to a greater extent.

Owning both (unless you also owned a wide variety of other cars) would make less sense.

TrackTwit said:

I am thinking probably GT3 but that could be becuase I have done the whole Turbo thing with loads of track days (and it was a brilliant machine on the track, run with Cups and Alcons) but still need to scratch the GT itch.

I have a friend who lives very near me, bought a 991 Turbo S and had it flogged at JZ within 2 weeks, hated it, now running 991 GT3.
Perhaps the ultimate Marmite car? Turbo S?

I have driven both at Silverstone PEC and they were different but both good fun.

[ORD]

sidicks said:

Turbo S = 560bhp, 1605Kg (DIN)
GT3 = 475bhp, 1430Kg (DIN)
(manufacturer's published figures)

So it has about 17.5% more power and it has about 12.2% more weight. Power to weight ratio is barely 5% difference (349bhp/tonne v 332bhp/tonne).

Fair observation. The main difference is in the torque, which probably explains there being in a second in it 0-100mph.

I always forget how absurdly, fking ridiculously fast the 991 GT3 is, let alone for a NA 6 pot! It's a ridiculously rapid car.

Both very much under-priced, in my view, and the GT3 is probably underrated (everyone thinks it is awesome, when it is actually in a different league from almost anything else).

[g7jhp]

#Anglesey Gate - 991 Turbo S in 1.13.6 on the first lap - no support from Porsche, Standard P Zeros

[Slippydiff]

Robbo66 said:

Seriously, who cares.

Its how it makes you feel, not 2/10ths on a track.

EFA

[Pepsi Max 996T]

These are 2 stupendous cars and I for one would be delighted to have either in my garage. It never ceases to amaze me that someone's enjoyment of either around a track (or anywhere really) becomes a huge disappointment because someone else in the other has went a fraction quicker. Unless you are actually in a race then who gives a toss !! The fact that Porsche still makes cars like this and at (relatively) bargain prices should be a reason to celebrate not bicker.

Rant over.

[Kav1]

sidicks said:

ORD said:

Am I missing something? The Turbo S SHOULD be faster. It has way more power and torque and is not a huge amount heavier.

But lots of people don't want a massive turbo sports barge in their garage, no matter how quick it is.

Turbo S = 560bhp, 1605Kg (DIN)
GT3 = 475bhp, 1430Kg (DIN)
(manufacturer's published figures)

So it has about 17.5% more power and it has about 12.2% more weight. Power to weight ratio is barely 5% difference (349bhp/tonne v 332bhp/tonne).

Porsche tell me power to weight ratio is almost identical between the 2, it's an open secret the GT3 is within a knat's whisker of 500bhp 475hp is very conservative.

[Kav1]

TrackTwit said:

Kav1 said:

TrackTwit said:

One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer!
After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo?

Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11

TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sonetime.

Ahhhhh, hello, glad to see you on here. He was chuffed to nuts with the battle, but still sulking last night that you had the edge!! It clearly shows how capable both cars are, the Turbo S probably continues to surpirse people.
We tend to do 5 or 6 days out per season, including a Spa trip at least once. Join in, you would be most welcome.
I dont believe I will get my RS much this side of Christmas, so I will be running my Exige V6 430 this season.


Sounds great - let me know when you guys are out next would be up for tagging along. My 991RS is here in Sept, sold my 991GT3 too early with the trackday season here it'll have to be the Turbo S now! Exige I here goes very well will be good to see that. Who was the chap in the frozen grey M3?

[TrackTwit]

I

Kav1 said:

TrackTwit said:

Kav1 said:

TrackTwit said:

One of my track day buddies driving his 991 GT3, who also races outside our track day group of mates and is bloody quick, got his ass handed to him yesterday by a very well driven 991 Turbo S. My buddy drove its wheels off again, as he usually does, needing to repalce the tyres again part way through the day, but still had no answer!
After 'Anglesey Gate' this week as well its a pretty bad week for the GT3, or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo?

Edited by TrackTwit on Friday 1st May 11:11

TrackTwit your mate can sure pedal ! We had some fun out there and it was sure an interesting and revealing battle. Over a lap Turbo S has the edge I would say and if both cars had the same Cup Sports tyres the gap would be bigger still . I've owned a 991 GT3 also and always thought it would be extremely close around Silverstone having taken both cars around My observations were through slower corners GT3 wins hands down. front end turn in is considerably better and despite the 4wd your mate in the GT3 could get back on the power a tad earlier than I could in Turbo S. In the faster corners Turbo S had the edge, it had the same rear wheel steer and even more stability than the GT3. Under braking Nothing in it and on The Pit and Hanger Straight Turbo S had a couple of car lengths in hand. High Speed directional changes through Becketts and Maggots GT3 had the edge. Over all for 2 such different cars amazing matched over a flat out lap. I would still rather had been in my GT3 though ! The biggest difference is it feels built for the track where Turbo S shows its extra weight and after 10 hard laps Turbo S feels like it needs a cool down where as GT3 feels like it can carry on all day! Must do it again sonetime.

Ahhhhh, hello, glad to see you on here. He was chuffed to nuts with the battle, but still sulking last night that you had the edge!! It clearly shows how capable both cars are, the Turbo S probably continues to surpirse people.
We tend to do 5 or 6 days out per season, including a Spa trip at least once. Join in, you would be most welcome.
I dont believe I will get my RS much this side of Christmas, so I will be running my Exige V6 430 this season.


Sounds great - let me know when you guys are out next would be up for tagging along. My 991RS is here in Sept, sold my 991GT3 too early with the trackday season here it'll have to be the Turbo S now! Exige I here goes very well will be good to see that. Who was the chap in the frozen grey M3?

He is one of our regular attendees, he does most of the organising. He can get that M3 around quite quickly. Well done in securing an RS slot, one of the lucky few, what colour you going for?

[FrankCayman]

For me, it's just nice to read people are loving the new stuff Porsche produce. I get fed up with the cynical comments that Porsche have 'sold out'

[sidicks]

Kav1 said:

Porsche tell me power to weight ratio is almost identical between the 2, it's an open secret the GT3 is within a knat's whisker of 500bhp 475hp is very conservative.

Indeed, but a similar issue applies to the Turbo's 560bhp...!!

[monthefish]

TrackTwit said:

or is it wrong to expect the GT3 to be quicker on a track than the Turbo?

Not really - it's a popular misconception, normally propagated by GT3 fan-boys in a bid to prop up values.

[Magic919]

All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks.

[TrackTwit]

Magic919 said:

All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks.

Which tracks would a GT3 be quicker over 10 straight laps than a Turbo S?

[sidicks]

Magic919 said:

All the extra torque will pay off for the Turbo on suitable tracks.

Why the obsession with Torque when the GT3 revs to 9,000rpm?

[keep it lit]

sidicks said:

Why the obsession with Torque when the GT3 revs to 9,000rpm?

peak power is long gone before 9k