991 GT3 Prices - 50 cars available!
Discussion
GT4RS said:
The gt3 market will not be corrected by my comments on a forum!
I know , but isn't it time everyone just either :Drives theirs
Sells theirs
Buy one
Don't buy one
It's just tedious , I couldn't care what they're worth / not worth - people can decide to buy or not / decide to sell or not - so what - it's sooooo dull - sorry
Let's take this scenario ....
At end of summer, 991GT3 prices have steadily come down as supply stays constant (few sell on the way down, but are replaced with even more cars). Let's say prices move down to the average list price of 115k (I know ... shock horror, but perfectly feasible, and where they are in Europe). Let us also assume there are still 50 or so cars on the market. Supply well exceeds demand. Who is going to buy even at these levels? Its a depreciating asset. Speculators are not interested. Enthusiasts? What enthusiasts! Even most enthusiasts have become speculators, hence why they are so vocal on here. Thus, I think prices could actually go below list. This is market that is akin to catching a falling knife. Prices will dip below perceived fair value before they final reach a foothold, and then will slowly rise again. This is a typical pattern.
The 991GT3 fallout will have an impact across the 996/997/991 GT3/RS range and maybe even to GT4. I do agree that 996/997 will probably be less affected, and I do not envisage these to go back to pre 2012 prices, but 15-25% correction is not unfeasible. 991RS, ... I don't see these going to list but premium will diminish.
At end of summer, 991GT3 prices have steadily come down as supply stays constant (few sell on the way down, but are replaced with even more cars). Let's say prices move down to the average list price of 115k (I know ... shock horror, but perfectly feasible, and where they are in Europe). Let us also assume there are still 50 or so cars on the market. Supply well exceeds demand. Who is going to buy even at these levels? Its a depreciating asset. Speculators are not interested. Enthusiasts? What enthusiasts! Even most enthusiasts have become speculators, hence why they are so vocal on here. Thus, I think prices could actually go below list. This is market that is akin to catching a falling knife. Prices will dip below perceived fair value before they final reach a foothold, and then will slowly rise again. This is a typical pattern.
The 991GT3 fallout will have an impact across the 996/997/991 GT3/RS range and maybe even to GT4. I do agree that 996/997 will probably be less affected, and I do not envisage these to go back to pre 2012 prices, but 15-25% correction is not unfeasible. 991RS, ... I don't see these going to list but premium will diminish.
ThirtySomething said:
Let's take this scenario ....
At end of summer, 991GT3 prices have steadily come down as supply stays constant (few sell on the way down, but are replaced with even more cars). Let's say prices move down to the average list price of 115k (I know ... shock horror, but perfectly feasible, and where they are in Europe). Let us also assume there are still 50 or so cars on the market. Supply well exceeds demand. Who is going to buy even at these levels? Its a depreciating asset. Speculators are not interested. Enthusiasts? What enthusiasts! Even most enthusiasts have become speculators, hence why they are so vocal on here. Thus, I think prices could actually go below list. This is market that is akin to catching a falling knife. Prices will dip below perceived fair value before they final reach a foothold, and then will slowly rise again. This is a typical pattern.
The 991GT3 fallout will have an impact across the 996/997/991 GT3/RS range and maybe even to GT4. I do agree that 996/997 will probably be less affected, and I do not envisage these to go back to pre 2012 prices, but 15-25% correction is not unfeasible. 991RS, ... I don't see these going to list but premium will diminish.
At end of summer, 991GT3 prices have steadily come down as supply stays constant (few sell on the way down, but are replaced with even more cars). Let's say prices move down to the average list price of 115k (I know ... shock horror, but perfectly feasible, and where they are in Europe). Let us also assume there are still 50 or so cars on the market. Supply well exceeds demand. Who is going to buy even at these levels? Its a depreciating asset. Speculators are not interested. Enthusiasts? What enthusiasts! Even most enthusiasts have become speculators, hence why they are so vocal on here. Thus, I think prices could actually go below list. This is market that is akin to catching a falling knife. Prices will dip below perceived fair value before they final reach a foothold, and then will slowly rise again. This is a typical pattern.
The 991GT3 fallout will have an impact across the 996/997/991 GT3/RS range and maybe even to GT4. I do agree that 996/997 will probably be less affected, and I do not envisage these to go back to pre 2012 prices, but 15-25% correction is not unfeasible. 991RS, ... I don't see these going to list but premium will diminish.
960Spyder said:
UK GT3 market is very strange. Take a look at the Swiss market as another non-German or US market.
1. There are SIX cars with less than 100km, One of them was registered in May 2015 and has 15% discount.
2. GT3s sit BELOW Turbo and Turbo S in the used market - matching the new price structure.
3. There are lots of used GT3s BELOW the price of new 991 GTS / Targa.
4. Yep, they suffer depreciation just like all the other models in the range.
5. Dealers are taking orders for 991.2 GT3.
6. 991GT3RS are available to order.
7. Cayman GT4s are in stock at dealers - at a DISCOUNT
So it's not just me thinking the uk has gone mad ! 1. There are SIX cars with less than 100km, One of them was registered in May 2015 and has 15% discount.
2. GT3s sit BELOW Turbo and Turbo S in the used market - matching the new price structure.
3. There are lots of used GT3s BELOW the price of new 991 GTS / Targa.
4. Yep, they suffer depreciation just like all the other models in the range.
5. Dealers are taking orders for 991.2 GT3.
6. 991GT3RS are available to order.
7. Cayman GT4s are in stock at dealers - at a DISCOUNT
ThirtySomething said:
RSVP911 said:
It's just tedious , I couldn't care what they're worth / not worth - people can decide to buy or not / decide to sell or not - so what - it's sooooo dull - sorry
How come you keep posting and reading if its so dull 
This thread is unashamedly about prices !
IMO the RHD market is on course for a correction. The pound has strengthened from almost parity with the Euro to €1.40. The result is that RHD prices now appear dear in comparison to their LHD counterparts. Every incentive for Porsche to make hay while the sun shines and take advantage of FoRex gains by flooding the UK market.
As an Economics graduate I find the whole bubble interesting to analyse and enjoy considering both arguments for and against it's continuation.
Swiss market is an odd one... for a small country , they have a big supply in. The trouble is, assuming you are happy with LHD, the taxes have to be paid in this country if you buy one. After that you are left with holding a LHD at a similar / higher price than UK list. Not many people will do that. Have a look at RHD/ LHD 4.0litre cars. Our market is full (well, still not that many!) of LHD but I have not seen a RHD advertised for some time.
The reason that the GT3 rose in price was excess demand. Maybe that will slow down now there is plenty of supply because the RS is coming and some people are trying to get what is , on any level, any incredible premium. That is is happening is simply testament to how good the 991GT3 is. Nobody could, or should, take that away from the car.
The reason that the GT3 rose in price was excess demand. Maybe that will slow down now there is plenty of supply because the RS is coming and some people are trying to get what is , on any level, any incredible premium. That is is happening is simply testament to how good the 991GT3 is. Nobody could, or should, take that away from the car.
5517 said:
ThirtySomething said:
This thread is unashamedly about prices ! [/b]
Being discussed by non owners with fellow non owners.Hilarious.
I know quite a few people that could buy one tomorrow but are not doing so because they think they are over-priced, plain and simple. Peoples' comments on this forum will have zero/minimal impact on the market but there are clearly some PHers who like discussing and speculating about prices, so what? I don't see these people on the other threads shouting "boring!" all over the discussions about whether a car is GT or Rhodium sliver or where's the best place to get your windscreen fixed.
As for the car, in my view it's a fantastic bit of kit but there are too many available in the market today to support their pricing and they are coming down. Still happy days for their owners though because if you bought it new, you are in the money for a while yet in my view and in the meantime you are driving a great car without losing your shirt. That's pretty rare.
DT398 said:
As for the car, in my view it's a fantastic bit of kit but there are too many available in the market today to support their pricing and they are coming down. Still happy days for their owners though because if you bought it new, you are in the money for a while yet in my view and in the meantime you are driving a great car without losing your shirt. That's pretty rare.
Sums it up. Automatics always drop in price, the RS is the car to have it has even faster PDK and 3 times the down force.
The GT3 may be a great car but IMO it will see list price sooner than later. Which is a non issue, owners will have had 2 years free use ! And a cash hand back from Porsche. But they are still moaning, odd !
I guess the issue is the guys who bought at £160 k + and now £30k down if traded. But then those are the guys who made the prices go up in the 1st place buying at stupid values and the guys who may also want to offload now to not loose even more.
We are bound to see a lot more cars come as people get the RS and off load, and these are the guys who can price war, knowing they paid list and how have a RS which is the car to have so don't mind offloading back at list.
Hence as above it,s a falling knife ATM I would NOT be buying till Feb 2016 when prices should level at a real selling value.
The GT3 may be a great car but IMO it will see list price sooner than later. Which is a non issue, owners will have had 2 years free use ! And a cash hand back from Porsche. But they are still moaning, odd !
I guess the issue is the guys who bought at £160 k + and now £30k down if traded. But then those are the guys who made the prices go up in the 1st place buying at stupid values and the guys who may also want to offload now to not loose even more.
We are bound to see a lot more cars come as people get the RS and off load, and these are the guys who can price war, knowing they paid list and how have a RS which is the car to have so don't mind offloading back at list.
Hence as above it,s a falling knife ATM I would NOT be buying till Feb 2016 when prices should level at a real selling value.
PorscheGT4 said:
Automatics always drop in price, the RS is the car to have it has even faster PDK and 3 times the down force.
The GT3 may be a great car but IMO it will see list price sooner than later. Which is a non issue, owners will have had 2 years free use ! And a cash hand back from Porsche. But they are still moaning, odd !
I guess the issue is the guys who bought at £160 k + and now £30k down if traded. But then those are the guys who made the prices go up in the 1st place buying at stupid values and the guys who may also want to offload now to not loose even more.
We are bound to see a lot more cars come as people get the RS and off load, and these are the guys who can price war, knowing they paid list and how have a RS which is the car to have so don't mind offloading back at list.
Hence as above it,s a falling knife ATM I would NOT be buying till Feb 2016 when prices should level at a real selling value.
Back from my morning sprint - it is an awesome machine - I am very lucky to have one and after watching the EVO RS video am very excited about getting one of those too. Just for the record though, I. Not moaning about prices - as you say what a prospect to own the best car I have ever driven ( better than a 458 IMHO) for what will be roughly 2 years and to be able to sell it for something between a little under list / or a big bit over list - I have no idea , but the prospect of anywhere along that line is amazing to me and will certainly be the first time I've ever owned a car for either so little or as an appreciating asset and as such , I really am not moaning as that would be really crass - all I was saying was this constant obsessing about price is really boring as we should all be talking about driving - I also realise that this is a thread about values and as such I have no right to moan - I was just venting I guess as it's such a shame that everyone is obsessing about the car for all the wrong reasons .The GT3 may be a great car but IMO it will see list price sooner than later. Which is a non issue, owners will have had 2 years free use ! And a cash hand back from Porsche. But they are still moaning, odd !
I guess the issue is the guys who bought at £160 k + and now £30k down if traded. But then those are the guys who made the prices go up in the 1st place buying at stupid values and the guys who may also want to offload now to not loose even more.
We are bound to see a lot more cars come as people get the RS and off load, and these are the guys who can price war, knowing they paid list and how have a RS which is the car to have so don't mind offloading back at list.
Hence as above it,s a falling knife ATM I would NOT be buying till Feb 2016 when prices should level at a real selling value.
The best news though is you have finally said that you will be buying one - and I'm not being smug by pointing this out , but I genuinely think that's great as you will love it - it's the most amazing thing and I believe that every man (or woman) who loves cars should get to experience one at some point - happy driving
Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 30th May 11:01
Just to provide balance here, plenty of owners were happy to talk about prices on the way up (see 180k GT3 thread etc) so only fair that others talk about them on the way down. Owners seem as price obsessed as the rest of us - and why not - but they have the added advantage of being able to drive a fab car to boot. I am envious whatever their car is worth
drmark said:
Just to provide balance here, plenty of owners were happy to talk about prices on the way up (see 180k GT3 thread etc) so only fair that others talk about them on the way down. Owners seem as price obsessed as the rest of us - and why not - but they have the added advantage of being able to drive a fab car to boot. I am envious whatever their car is worth
'only fair'? Maybe. Still don't understand why those who have no intention of buying a car are so obsessed with the price of that car!
RSVP911 said:
Back from my morning sprint - it is an awesome machine - I am very lucky to have one and after watching the EVO RS video am very excited about getting one of those too. Just for the record though, I. Not moaning about prices - as you say what a prospect to own the best car I have ever driven ( better than a 458 IMHO) for what will be roughly 2 years and to be able to sell it for something between a little under list / or a big bit over list - I have no idea , but the prospect of anywhere along that line is amazing to me and will certainly be the first time I've ever owned a car for either so little or as an appreciating asset and as such , I really am not moaning as that would be really crass - all I was saying was this constant obsessing about price is really boring as we should all be talking about driving - I also realise that this is a thread about values and as such I have no right to moan - I was just venting I guess as it's such a shame that everyone is obsessing about the car for all the wrong reasons .
The best news though is you have finally said that you will be buying one - and I'm not being smug by pointing this out , but I genuinely think that's great as you will love it - it's the most amazing thing and I believe that every man (or woman) who loves cars should get to experience one at some point - happy driving
But is obsession about prices really boring? Or are posts about driving more boring? The best news though is you have finally said that you will be buying one - and I'm not being smug by pointing this out , but I genuinely think that's great as you will love it - it's the most amazing thing and I believe that every man (or woman) who loves cars should get to experience one at some point - happy driving
Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 30th May 11:01
Personally, I find as another poster stated here, talk about prices (arguments both for and against) very interesting and quite amusing at times. It doesn't mean that I don't go out in my own car and have fun. But what has happened to the UK market seems very unique. The British have historically obsessed about house prices for example, and now that national obsession seems to be moving to cars. Notice how many more posts and retorts there are here with regards to prices than any other discussion!
Purchasing cars has become "Rentier Capitalism" .... from wiki: Marxist term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of parasitic monopolization of access to any (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) kind of property, and gaining significant amounts of profit without contribution to society.
Ultimately, that means cars are no longer about driving, which probably is sad for the true enthusiast, as many enthusiasts get priced out. Only when the bubble bursts and cars do go back to depreciating as they used to do will the topic change back to driving.
ThirtySomething said:
But is obsession about prices really boring? Or are posts about driving more boring?
Personally, I find as another poster stated here, talk about prices (arguments both for and against) very interesting and quite amusing at times. It doesn't mean that I don't go out in my own car and have fun. But what has happened to the UK market seems very unique. The British have historically obsessed about house prices for example, and now that national obsession seems to be moving to cars. Notice how many more posts and retorts there are here with regards to prices than any other discussion!
Purchasing cars has become "Rentier Capitalism" .... from wiki: Marxist term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of parasitic monopolization of access to any (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) kind of property, and gaining significant amounts of profit without contribution to society.
Ultimately, that means cars are no longer about driving, which probably is sad for the true enthusiast, as many enthusiasts get priced out. Only when the bubble bursts and cars do go back to depreciating as they used to do will the topic change back to driving.
Fair enough , I agree what is happening in this market seems unique and is interesting - but not to the point where it seems to become obsessive on both sides ; ie on the way up and down - I guess I just think it's a been gauche , as is borne out very well in your quote above - I agree it's not adding a lot of value and I guess that's why I find it a bit frustrating - but as it was rightly pointed out to me ; that this is a thread about values and as such I think I'll shut up and let you guys get on with it - my parting comment is this - the 911 GT3 really is fabulous and I hope each and everyone of you gets to have a play in one at some point - happy driving Personally, I find as another poster stated here, talk about prices (arguments both for and against) very interesting and quite amusing at times. It doesn't mean that I don't go out in my own car and have fun. But what has happened to the UK market seems very unique. The British have historically obsessed about house prices for example, and now that national obsession seems to be moving to cars. Notice how many more posts and retorts there are here with regards to prices than any other discussion!
Purchasing cars has become "Rentier Capitalism" .... from wiki: Marxist term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of parasitic monopolization of access to any (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) kind of property, and gaining significant amounts of profit without contribution to society.
Ultimately, that means cars are no longer about driving, which probably is sad for the true enthusiast, as many enthusiasts get priced out. Only when the bubble bursts and cars do go back to depreciating as they used to do will the topic change back to driving.
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