991 GT3 Prices - 50 cars available!
Discussion
EvoBlade said:
That was me. I paid about the right price and it was at the top end of what I was prepared to pay. In truth it's a bit higher than I wanted but the car was almost perfect spec for me and I've not seen any others available in that colour at that spec.
I would have preferred to pay less of course! The car is fabulous and holds its own well on track. I place it 3rd behind my M3 GTS and 458 Speciale in that order.
If I had to guess I would have gone with,, 1st- Speciale, 2nd- GT3 and then the GTS. I am surprised...I would have preferred to pay less of course! The car is fabulous and holds its own well on track. I place it 3rd behind my M3 GTS and 458 Speciale in that order.
EvoBlade said:
In the grand scheme, gt3 is a bargain at about 55% of the spaz
Absolutely, yes, if you were fortunate to pay rrp. I know it's going slightly off-topic... but when you look at how much 991 GT3's peaked at, and how much 991 RS's are going to be on the used market, the Spaz is really a 'bargain'. IMO obviouslyPhooey said:
Absolutely, yes, if you were fortunate to pay rrp. I know it's going slightly off-topic... but when you look at how much 991 GT3's peaked at, and how much 991 RS's are going to be on the used market, the Spaz is really a 'bargain'. IMO obviously
Agreed, but I was quoting price I paid for a new ordered Spaz vs an over-list GT3 - and they are similar specs. If I had paid list for the GT3 it would have been well under half the price of the Spaz.Same argument for GT3 RS. One of those list would have been a little more than what I paid for the cooking GT3. I've been offered a few of those new between 100 and 150 overs, which is nuts and yes, then the Spaz becomes "a bargain" if we can call such things bargains!
throt said:
If I had to guess I would have gone with,, 1st- Speciale, 2nd- GT3 and then the GTS. I am surprised...
Yeh, thing is the GTS has:Intrax suspension with ARC in place of the KWs BMW fit
Brembo Type III race discs, custom bells and Endless MA54B pads in place of the chocolate rubbish BMW fit
Two additional DCT coolers and pumps so you can run all day
GT4 carbon brake ducts with appropriate ducting to the front bumper
Various other carbon bits and Lithium battery to save weight
Full Akrapovic titanium exhaust
Carbon plenum, air filter and airbox
ESS remap and underdrive pulleys
BBS Forged FI rims (8kgs front and 9kgs rear)
Car is extremely well sorted and with 475bhp and 1475kgs is very competitive
Here is a video of Jake Hill, British GT driver, doing a 2:22.00 at Silverstone in it in his 4th ever lap in it, 2up, road legal tyres and full of fuel. He also places it above Spaz and GT3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1oXB57x1k0
GTS is now having a full engine build to take it up to 4.6 and somewhere in the 550bhp range. I admit it is a distance away from a standard M3 GTS and without any power mods is approx. 10s a lap faster at Silverstone than a standard GTS. Fabulous car all the same.
I only paid £89k for it originally and did these changes so it could run cost effectively on track. I can do hour long sessions without drop-off. Discs last around 6 days, pads 4 days, tyres 4 to 6 days etc
Edited by EvoBlade on Thursday 27th August 21:36
EvoBlade said:
Yeh, thing is the GTS has:
Intrax suspension with ARC in place of the KWs BMW fit
Brembo Type III race discs, custom bells and Endless MA54B pads in place of the chocolate rubbish BMW fit
Two additional DCT coolers and pumps so you can run all day
GT4 carbon brake ducts with appropriate ducting to the front bumper
Various other carbon bits and Lithium battery to save weight
Full Akrapovic titanium exhaust
Carbon plenum, air filter and airbox
ESS remap and underdrive pulleys
BBS Forged FI rims (8kgs front and 9kgs rear)
Car is extremely well sorted and with 475bhp and 1475kgs is very competitive
Here is a video of Jake Hill, British GT driver, doing a 2:22.00 at Silverstone in it in his 4th ever lap in it, 2up, road legal tyres and full of fuel. He also places it above Spaz and GT3.
GTS is now having a full engine build to take it up to 4.6 and somewhere in the 550bhp range. I admit it is a distance away from a standard M3 GTS and without any power mods is approx. 10s a lap faster at Silverstone than a standard GTS. Fabulous car all the same
GT2 RS as an alternative, and to keep the value in the car?Intrax suspension with ARC in place of the KWs BMW fit
Brembo Type III race discs, custom bells and Endless MA54B pads in place of the chocolate rubbish BMW fit
Two additional DCT coolers and pumps so you can run all day
GT4 carbon brake ducts with appropriate ducting to the front bumper
Various other carbon bits and Lithium battery to save weight
Full Akrapovic titanium exhaust
Carbon plenum, air filter and airbox
ESS remap and underdrive pulleys
BBS Forged FI rims (8kgs front and 9kgs rear)
Car is extremely well sorted and with 475bhp and 1475kgs is very competitive
Here is a video of Jake Hill, British GT driver, doing a 2:22.00 at Silverstone in it in his 4th ever lap in it, 2up, road legal tyres and full of fuel. He also places it above Spaz and GT3.
GTS is now having a full engine build to take it up to 4.6 and somewhere in the 550bhp range. I admit it is a distance away from a standard M3 GTS and without any power mods is approx. 10s a lap faster at Silverstone than a standard GTS. Fabulous car all the same
Mermaid said:
GT2 RS as an alternative, and to keep the value in the car?
No turbos for me. All my cars are normally aspirated and high revving. Running costs of the GTS are peanuts and it still retains value as it is so rare. It's academic as it's a keeper.I don't subscribe to owner cars for any reason other than driving them, and I don't also subscribe to keeping aspects of a car as the factory supplied them if they were poorly done.
E92 M3s with DCT for example, like GTRs, will overheat their gearboxes driven properly within 4 laps or so and go into a protection mode until temperatures return to normal.
GT3 isn't perfect, and neither is Spaz but you would think twice about touching those given warranty etc. GTS was out of warranty when I got it and BMW refused to extend warranty if you used it on track (seriously!)
Anyway, I'm derailing this thread so I'll stop there!
Back on topic, I think the situation is this:-
1. There are not as many cars as you think out there
2. Good clubsports are going fast and some are getting multiple bids with people fighting over them
3. Non-club sports without adaptives are the least loved
4. Most owners want lift and value it
5. Very basic, non CS cars without ceramics are in the 122 to 133k range depending on age/mileage/spec and this is because there are lots of them as most people want CS. It amazes me just how many non-CS cars there are for what is meant to be a track car.
6. Some cars are stupidly priced by dealers, including crazy prices for LHD cars. You will see non CS cars without ceramics at 160k+! This is in my view because some dealers bought high and are stuck with stock. There are also those selling entirely new cars at a massive premium to try and find the one or two elusive buyers who simply "must have a 1 owner car".
7. There are many who think the market is in free-fall and there is an owner/seller conspiracy going on - which is just silly!
8. I think non-CS cars have a way to go - it all depends on how much owners have to sell. I doubt they will go below list as I doubt owners can't afford to wait until things pickup again.
9. CS I think (apart from dogs) are already stable and rising. You will have to go for non ceramic, 2013 or higher mileage to get in the 130ks. With the crazy RS prices, the CS will start to look good value. I doubt they will get up to crazy prices again but I think will stick around £140k to £150k as there is nothing comparable for the money.
Doesn't matter what I think or anyone else here, only time will tell! My advice is if you want one, just buy the best one you can find and enjoy it. A non-CS car, no matter how cheap it is, does not present value if it isn't what you wanted.
Edited by EvoBlade on Thursday 27th August 21:58
EvoBlade said:
Mermaid said:
GT2 RS as an alternative, and to keep the value in the car?
No turbos for me. All my cars are normally aspirated and high revving. Running costs of the GTS are peanuts and it still retains value as it is so rare. It's academic as it's a keeper.I don't subscribe to owner cars for any reason other than driving them, and I don't also subscribe to keeping aspects of a car as the factory supplied them if they were poorly done.
E92 M3s with DCT for example, like GTRs, will overheat their gearboxes driven properly within 4 laps or so and go into a protection mode until temperatures return to normal.
GT3 isn't perfect, and neither is Spaz but you would think twice about touching those given warranty etc. GTS was out of warranty when I got it and BMW refused to extend warranty if you used it on track (seriously!)
Mermaid said:
Thanks for that explanation, but do you not find the car heavy at 1475kgs?
Well, yes, but all these modern GT cars are all around that weight. Don't believe what you read, just what you see on the scales. There is only 30kgs difference between the Spaz/GT3 and the GTS (bear in mind I've shed around 80kgs from the stock GTS).My Honda is more like it at 1100kgs and 300bhp revving to 9k. I'll take another 100kgs out of that soon. Don't be fooled by it being FWD, it is bonkers like a Touring Car and massive fun. It's my favourite of them all.
Modern GT cars do a great job of disguising their weight though. I am surprised how much equipment there is the GT3 though compared to the GTS yet manages to be much lighter out the box.
EvoBlade said:
Back on topic, I think the situation is this:-
1. There are not as many cars as you think out there
2. Good clubsports are going fast and some are getting multiple bids with people fighting over them
3. Non-club sports without adaptives are the least loved
4. Most owners want lift and value it
5. Very basic, non CS cars without ceramics are in the 122 to 133k range depending on age/mileage/spec and this is because there are lots of them as most people want CS. It amazes me just how many non-CS cars there are for what is meant to be a track car.
6. Some cars are stupidly priced by dealers, including crazy prices for LHD cars. You will see non CS cars without ceramics at 160k+! This is in my view because some dealers bought high and are stuck with stock. There are also those selling entirely new cars at a massive premium to try and find the one or two elusive buyers who simply "must have a 1 owner car".
7. There are many who think the market is in free-fall and there is an owner/seller conspiracy going on - which is just silly!
8. I think non-CS cars have a way to go - it all depends on how much owners have to sell. I doubt they will go below list as I doubt owners can't afford to wait until things pickup again.
9. CS I think (apart from dogs) are already stable and rising. You will have to go for non ceramic, 2013 or higher mileage to get in the 130ks. With the crazy RS prices, the CS will start to look good value. I doubt they will get up to crazy prices again but I think will stick around £140k to £150k as there is nothing comparable for the money.
Some interesting thoughts - i think the only thing I'd take issue with is your comment that the car is 'meant to be a track car'.1. There are not as many cars as you think out there
2. Good clubsports are going fast and some are getting multiple bids with people fighting over them
3. Non-club sports without adaptives are the least loved
4. Most owners want lift and value it
5. Very basic, non CS cars without ceramics are in the 122 to 133k range depending on age/mileage/spec and this is because there are lots of them as most people want CS. It amazes me just how many non-CS cars there are for what is meant to be a track car.
6. Some cars are stupidly priced by dealers, including crazy prices for LHD cars. You will see non CS cars without ceramics at 160k+! This is in my view because some dealers bought high and are stuck with stock. There are also those selling entirely new cars at a massive premium to try and find the one or two elusive buyers who simply "must have a 1 owner car".
7. There are many who think the market is in free-fall and there is an owner/seller conspiracy going on - which is just silly!
8. I think non-CS cars have a way to go - it all depends on how much owners have to sell. I doubt they will go below list as I doubt owners can't afford to wait until things pickup again.
9. CS I think (apart from dogs) are already stable and rising. You will have to go for non ceramic, 2013 or higher mileage to get in the 130ks. With the crazy RS prices, the CS will start to look good value. I doubt they will get up to crazy prices again but I think will stick around £140k to £150k as there is nothing comparable for the money.
I think it's meant to be a road car which is perfectly capable on track - in my view a 'track car' is one designed for the track and I think something like a Caterham, Ariel Atom, Westfield etc would suit this purpose better than a Porsche!
Mermaid said:
Smaller car, less metal. Smaller lighter roll cage, shorter transmission/exhaust?
It isn't that much smaller and the V8 is pretty light. I have no nav or stereo for example in the GTS.Don't forget GTS has things like a carbon roof, plastic wings, aluminium bonnet etc and is only 75mm longer and a similar width.
I don't think there is much in the exhaust system either as mine is titanium. There is a substantial height difference though, at least 100mm and that must have an impact
sidicks said:
Some interesting thoughts - i think the only thing I'd take issue with is your comment that the car is 'meant to be a track car'.
I think it's meant to be a road car which is perfectly capable on track - in my view a 'track car' is one designed for the track and I think something like a Caterham, Ariel Atom, Westfield etc would suit this purpose better than a Porsche!
Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant is a car that is designed to be very capable on track. It is the trackday version of the 991. I think at the pace it is capable of on track you definitely want a cage and harnesses and supportive seats for your own safety.I think it's meant to be a road car which is perfectly capable on track - in my view a 'track car' is one designed for the track and I think something like a Caterham, Ariel Atom, Westfield etc would suit this purpose better than a Porsche!
It is an extremely capable road car, as is the speciale. I would understand more if, like C63 AMG Black, you could have the car with either 4 seats or a cage/buckets - but you can't. The two seats only and no cage seems odd to me.
It's as odd as Maserati initially launching the MC Stradale only with a cage and buckets which didn't really fit with a car that was much more road than track. I've got an MC Stradale, later edition, with 4 seats and it's fabulous.
It's all my opinion. I know the argument will be weight, but the addition of a pair of flimsy seats and belts has got to be less than the CS cage!
Phooey said:
Mmmmm Spesh. Almost sounds wrong saying it - but what a bargain that car is! We went down to Silverstone Classic in my mates the day after he picked it up from Graypaul Nottingham. I have little interest in GT3's, RS's etc now. Fezza every day 
There is no way that gold could go with yellow! And yet....Bieldside said:
Dick Lovett sold a 991GT3RS for £295K
Tasty profit but sadly two fingers to Porsche as it was a £160k spec car
Told by my OPC contact
It certainly went up for that price and did sell but there isn't any evidence it was at that price.Tasty profit but sadly two fingers to Porsche as it was a £160k spec car
Told by my OPC contact
It was in that region though by all accounts. I've definitely been asked for £250 to £300k for an RS
That is not value in my opinion. It's only marginally better in real terms than the GT3 and not worth twice the money.
£200k is probably the right price but I am sure you will see £100k+ mark-ups and people will pay. I don't understand why there isn't similar behaviour with the 458 Speciale. Sure, they are selling for overs now but only marginally.
EvoBlade said:
Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant is a car that is designed to be very capable on track. It is the trackday version of the 991. I think at the pace it is capable of on track you definitely want a cage and harnesses and supportive seats for your own safety.
It is an extremely capable road car, as is the speciale. I would understand more if, like C63 AMG Black, you could have the car with either 4 seats or a cage/buckets - but you can't. The two seats only and no cage seems odd to me.
It's as odd as Maserati initially launching the MC Stradale only with a cage and buckets which didn't really fit with a car that was much more road than track. I've got an MC Stradale, later edition, with 4 seats and it's fabulous.
It's all my opinion. I know the argument will be weight, but the addition of a pair of flimsy seats and belts has got to be less than the CS cage!
I understand where you're coming from. For me the bucket seats are a key part of the GT3 experience, whereas the cafe just makes the car much less practical for long trips / touring.It is an extremely capable road car, as is the speciale. I would understand more if, like C63 AMG Black, you could have the car with either 4 seats or a cage/buckets - but you can't. The two seats only and no cage seems odd to me.
It's as odd as Maserati initially launching the MC Stradale only with a cage and buckets which didn't really fit with a car that was much more road than track. I've got an MC Stradale, later edition, with 4 seats and it's fabulous.
It's all my opinion. I know the argument will be weight, but the addition of a pair of flimsy seats and belts has got to be less than the CS cage!
Having said that, what I probably should have done is ordered a CS and had my OPC remove the cage so that I could store it and add it back at a later date - I'm told that you can't readily add a cage to a non-CS car.
PorscheGT4 said:
on way out for curry, saw 991 GT3 on a tow truck :-(
Don't think I could ever buy one.
this now looks good value only 15 RHD UK cars as well.
it isn't 15. Quite a few were exported. There are 9 in the UK, 4 reportedly on SORN but that doesn't include mine now on SORN, so 5 on SORN, 4 on the road. It used to be 8 cars so I suspect one of those is actually LHD.Don't think I could ever buy one.
this now looks good value only 15 RHD UK cars as well.
I have got hold of most of the owners on www.bmwm3gts.com
I see one is up in the 120s. In standard form, they are similar to a 997 GT3 Gen II CS.
very tempting, but I sold My M3 Comp as I found it a dull drive, I also had a CSl.
I dare not risk a GTS in case I did not like it.
But I always love the look and colour and how rare they are.
458S is a very very awesome car, best thing I have ever driven.
be great to see yours, I'll bring along the GT4
I dare not risk a GTS in case I did not like it.
But I always love the look and colour and how rare they are.
458S is a very very awesome car, best thing I have ever driven.
be great to see yours, I'll bring along the GT4
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