997 Gen 1 C4S or C2S
Discussion
Apologies in advance for this really quite dull question, but I'm in a quandry. Had a gorgeous Gen 2 C2S a Year back...it was more than enough car for me, scared the cr*p out of me in sport plus mode, so I've no desire to get into turbo or GTS territory. I sold it as it was depreciating like mad. But I miss it like crazy - and basically want the same car without the depreciation woes.
So, looking at early gen 1 prices, the bottom end seems to be holding steady at about £20k for a C2S highest miler, and C4S starting about £6k more.
Do you peeps think prices are steady?
And If so which will hold its value better? 997 C2S or C4S. ?
I've never driven the 4S but here they're popular as feel safer. I also noted that 996 C4S are actually gaining in value (weirdly 996 C4S are more than many 997 C2S!) but I don't really understand why a turbo body shell would make everyone suddenly go weak at the knees??? And if it does, I'm assuming the effect is not the same for the 997 C4S which has a much more regular body shell...
Views gratefully received!
So, looking at early gen 1 prices, the bottom end seems to be holding steady at about £20k for a C2S highest miler, and C4S starting about £6k more.
Do you peeps think prices are steady?
And If so which will hold its value better? 997 C2S or C4S. ?
I've never driven the 4S but here they're popular as feel safer. I also noted that 996 C4S are actually gaining in value (weirdly 996 C4S are more than many 997 C2S!) but I don't really understand why a turbo body shell would make everyone suddenly go weak at the knees??? And if it does, I'm assuming the effect is not the same for the 997 C4S which has a much more regular body shell...
Views gratefully received!
I've had 996 C2 and C4s and also spent a fair bit of time in 997 C2 and C4s. From my experience day to day if you drive like a sensible road car driver you will very rarely tell the difference between the two. 996 C4 for me has slightly better steering feel, doesn't nod the nose quite as much and when approaching the limit of the chassis performance does have more outright grip. C2 will obviously steer from the rear more easily.
If you found a C2 a little intimidating then a C4 will resolve this, they are easier to drive quickly as they are more forgiving to getting on throttle earlier than ideal.
For what it's worth around Bedford South circuit my C2 was three tenths slower on average than my C4 on the same tyres, dampers and driver.
Drive both and decide because it is as much a personal choice as a performance choice. I have a C4 as my daily driver and would pick it everytime over a C2 but my requirements and usage is a little different to most.
If you found a C2 a little intimidating then a C4 will resolve this, they are easier to drive quickly as they are more forgiving to getting on throttle earlier than ideal.
For what it's worth around Bedford South circuit my C2 was three tenths slower on average than my C4 on the same tyres, dampers and driver.
Drive both and decide because it is as much a personal choice as a performance choice. I have a C4 as my daily driver and would pick it everytime over a C2 but my requirements and usage is a little different to most.
anonymous said:
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The overall weight difference is about the same as full tank vs 10L in tank on a C2 and a good proportion of that is in the tunnel rather than over the wheels. Front diff assembly and shafts across the centre line of the front wheels is about 27KG. If you can feel that different in a road car with rubber bushes everywhere you're a better driver than me!anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's not just the 4WD it's the difference in front upright design, damper angle, resulting geometry etc. when compared to the 2WD components as well.Here is a 2WD:
And here is a 4WD:
You can see the differences in damper mounting but also the C4 uprights are a bit stiffer due to the load path from the damper position etc. requiring them to be a little beefier.
Also with regards to the 996 the C4 shell is significantly stiffer around the front end when compared to the C2 shell hence why the C4 shell was used as the basis for the GT3.
I've never found the physical weight of the steering to be significantly different between a C2 and C4 (it's the same rack, pump, hyds pressure etc.) and geo can have a bit impact on percieved steering weight but have found repeatedly that there is greater feel and rigidity in the front end of the C4 vs a C2. Especially noticeable if you are putting rapid loads into the front suspension when it is already loaded e.g. hitting pot holes mid corner or rumbling the kerbs on corner exit on a circuit.
Edited by poppopbangbang on Sunday 24th May 15:48
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Another +1 for this^^The whole "4wd is safer/better for our wet roads thing" is a complete red herring, especially on 996 and 997.1 cars, as from memory it's a viscous coupling system on those models that only transfers significant drive (more than 5%) to the front wheels when the rears are turning faster than the fronts anyway i.e. you're already over-steering.
A C2(S) with correct geo, winter tyres and PSM is all you need in adverse conditions. If you manage to crash that, you would almost certainly have crashed in a C4(S) as well.
4wd just adds weight and dulls performance, BUT, in the case of something like a 996 C4S, the better looks may outweigh the disadvantages for some (as it did for me)
My wife has 997.1 C4s and it is my favourite all time 911 for daily use thanks to the way it steers, rides and handles. Other 911s do other things better but the only car we would swap it for is a 991 - which probably sums up what we like about it.
Oh, and with 5mm spacers and C Sport alloys it looks the business too.
Oh, and with 5mm spacers and C Sport alloys it looks the business too.
You may have forgotten it all by now, but the 997.2 is a much nicer drive than the 997.1. Also i think they look that bit better inside and out.
The 997.1 C4S 4WD is not shared with the Turbo, but the 997.2 C4S does get the Turbo's drivetrain. As such, the latter was the first 4WD (not Turbo) to put in a better lap time (wet or dry) than the Carrera S. I also preferred the way it felt, although personally i like a bit of oversteer and would get a 997.2 C2S.
Narrow bodied cars with small wheels tend to be the better handling, but not quite as assured and they look pants (in my eyes).
The 997.1 C4S 4WD is not shared with the Turbo, but the 997.2 C4S does get the Turbo's drivetrain. As such, the latter was the first 4WD (not Turbo) to put in a better lap time (wet or dry) than the Carrera S. I also preferred the way it felt, although personally i like a bit of oversteer and would get a 997.2 C2S.
Narrow bodied cars with small wheels tend to be the better handling, but not quite as assured and they look pants (in my eyes).
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