997 turbo suspension advice needed
Discussion
Have had the car for a few months now and have noticed 1 or 2 handling issues which I feel could do with addressing. I don't have any problem with the way it grips or goes around corners but it does tramline quite a bit particularly when the tyres are cold. While I'm OK with a car that needs a bit of driving, I'm sure it's more sensitive to road imperfections than my previous 996 turbo. The car's on standard suspension, less than 30k miles and half worn P Zeros. It's booked into Centre Gravity for a check up so I'll see how it is after a geo.
The main issue which I could with a bit of advice on is the ride. It really feels under-damped particularly in PASM normal mode. The result is that the ride feels generally 'bouncy'. Sport mode ties it down a bit more but can be a bit much on less smooth roads. Have experimented with tyre pressures and now running at -3psi from standard but little improvement. Is this typical for a 997 turbo or is it likely to be worn dampers (at 30k miles?) or faulty PASM control? If it's the dampers, any suggestions regarding replacing with standard or upgrading? I'm after a car for spirited road use - don't mind a firmish ride if it pays dividends on the handling. Any ideas of cost re OEM replacement vs upgrade? Thanks in advance.
The main issue which I could with a bit of advice on is the ride. It really feels under-damped particularly in PASM normal mode. The result is that the ride feels generally 'bouncy'. Sport mode ties it down a bit more but can be a bit much on less smooth roads. Have experimented with tyre pressures and now running at -3psi from standard but little improvement. Is this typical for a 997 turbo or is it likely to be worn dampers (at 30k miles?) or faulty PASM control? If it's the dampers, any suggestions regarding replacing with standard or upgrading? I'm after a car for spirited road use - don't mind a firmish ride if it pays dividends on the handling. Any ideas of cost re OEM replacement vs upgrade? Thanks in advance.
P zero is a terrible tyre unless you have the tropheo or tropheo r. The single worst tyre I've ever had on my turbo. Try the TPC DSC module with H&R or Eibach lowering springs before changing dampers . The module remaps the PASM. Bouncy dampers par for the course on a 997 turbo. CG very good by the way. If you do go down damper route have a look at Bilstein B8 or B6.
B16 Damptronics tend to fail quite often. I've got GT2 rear anti roll bar with H&R lowering springs and wider 325 and 245 section tyres which has cured understeer but not completely sorted bounciness. Will get the TPC module at some stage but for my sort of use I'm pretty happy.
Hope this helps.
B16 Damptronics tend to fail quite often. I've got GT2 rear anti roll bar with H&R lowering springs and wider 325 and 245 section tyres which has cured understeer but not completely sorted bounciness. Will get the TPC module at some stage but for my sort of use I'm pretty happy.
Hope this helps.
Bilstein B16 Damptronics are your best option designed by the people who invented the Porsche system and honed on the Nurburgring.
The thread below is well worth a read.
Rumours of unreliability are not quantifiable they sell a lot of shocks so prob get more failures than other makes but these are Bilstein one of the best brands in shocks. Only anecdotal stuff so far on the TPC DSC module I'd wait until there is some solid testing and evidence to substantiate claims.
http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=0
The thread below is well worth a read.
Rumours of unreliability are not quantifiable they sell a lot of shocks so prob get more failures than other makes but these are Bilstein one of the best brands in shocks. Only anecdotal stuff so far on the TPC DSC module I'd wait until there is some solid testing and evidence to substantiate claims.
http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=0
Edited by TB993tt on Monday 25th May 14:54
Hi I have changed everything you can possibly change to do with the geometry on the 997 turbo inc the PASM module. If you want to meet up or need some advice I am happy to help. I am based in London. Shoot me a mail if you like.
IMI there have been failures with the Bilstein kit but not many.
My front left shock failed and started to knock but was fixed within a 3 day turn around and comes with a 12 month warranty so please tell me someone else that can do that?
Your engine failed but you didn't sell your car because of it did you!;)
IMI there have been failures with the Bilstein kit but not many.
My front left shock failed and started to knock but was fixed within a 3 day turn around and comes with a 12 month warranty so please tell me someone else that can do that?
Your engine failed but you didn't sell your car because of it did you!;)
s3nick said:
Hi I have changed everything you can possibly change to do with the geometry on the 997 turbo inc the PASM module. If you want to meet up or need some advice I am happy to help. I am based in London. Shoot me a mail if you like.
IMI there have been failures with the Bilstein kit but not many.
My front left shock failed and started to knock but was fixed within a 3 day turn around and comes with a 12 month warranty so please tell me someone else that can do that?
Your engine failed but you didn't sell your car because of it did you!;)
Hi Mate, whats the difference between, B16, B8 and B6? I've been in all of them inc yours and felt for road use the suspension was too firm and does not flow with the road (bit crashy). By contrast 997 turbo stock suspension is far too bouncy. Was following a mate's turbo back from Ace yesterday and his turbo's suspension looked like a trampoline. Not too bad this when turbo is stock but when you dial up the power the car really does start to struggle to control its mass. I'm never going mad in the turbo on road so don't notice it unless the road is really bad. ImiIMI there have been failures with the Bilstein kit but not many.
My front left shock failed and started to knock but was fixed within a 3 day turn around and comes with a 12 month warranty so please tell me someone else that can do that?
Your engine failed but you didn't sell your car because of it did you!;)
IMI A said:
Hi Mate, whats the difference between, B16, B8 and B6? I've been in all of them inc yours and felt for road use the suspension was too firm and does not flow with the road (bit crashy). By contrast 997 turbo stock suspension is far too bouncy. Was following a mate's turbo back from Ace yesterday and his turbo's suspension looked like a trampoline. Not too bad this when turbo is stock but when you dial up the power the car really does start to struggle to control its mass. I'm never going mad in the turbo on road so don't notice it unless the road is really bad. Imi
Fair enough but I think suspension setup is very subjective very much like exhaust tone and noise. Different strokes for different folks. You have a firmer geometry setup you handle better on tracks and smoother roads but you lose some comfort. You remove cats from an exhaust to gain power but it becomes too loud. As for B6, B8 and B16. B6 is a replace mono tube for stock springs, B8 allows you to lower the car with lowering springs and B16 is adjustable AND in a different league to the previous two kits in terms of performance.
s3nick said:
IMI A said:
Hi Mate, whats the difference between, B16, B8 and B6? I've been in all of them inc yours and felt for road use the suspension was too firm and does not flow with the road (bit crashy). By contrast 997 turbo stock suspension is far too bouncy. Was following a mate's turbo back from Ace yesterday and his turbo's suspension looked like a trampoline. Not too bad this when turbo is stock but when you dial up the power the car really does start to struggle to control its mass. I'm never going mad in the turbo on road so don't notice it unless the road is really bad. Imi
Fair enough but I think suspension setup is very subjective very much like exhaust tone and noise. Different strokes for different folks. You have a firmer geometry setup you handle better on tracks and smoother roads but you lose some comfort. You remove cats from an exhaust to gain power but it becomes too loud. As for B6, B8 and B16. B6 is a replace mono tube for stock springs, B8 allows you to lower the car with lowering springs and B16 is adjustable AND in a different league to the previous two kits in terms of performance.
Slippydiff said:
Ditch the Pirellis, get a set of Michelin Pilot Supersports, let Chris work his magic, and you'll be left wondering why you posted the question/s on here in the first place.
+1.Had old Pirellis on my C2 and Chris at CG recommended Michelin and transformed the car ! I found the C2 very choppy compared to my turbo. On most of our roads in the UK, I find the turbo suspension set up about right with more compliance than the C2 ever had. The Carrera always tramlined and felt every lump and bump which after a couple of hundred miles starts to drain me . With PASM switched on in the Turbo it reminds me of how the Carrera used to be in non PASM mode. I also find Michelins transfer less road noise to the cabin. Unfortunately the suspension is a personal choice/feel and can't be all things to all men.
Well, just to wrap up, here's how it worked out. Took the car up to CG for a health check - very impressive. Test drive to analyse how it was behaving followed by a full geo check which confirmed the results of the drive. New track rod ends required and a fair adjustment prescribed for the geo which was not symmetrical and and had a lot of camber on the rear, likely to have contributed to the bounciness. Next up a set of Michelin Pilot Sports to replace the P Zeros and then back to CG for the remedial work.
End result, a big improvement. Where the car was under-damped and thrown about by bumps, it's now much calmer and more predictable. Tramlining much reduced. It's set up for fast A road use and combined with the Michelins, the turn-in and grip are amazing. The guys at CG are great, real enthusiasts. I learned a lot about the car and was involved throughout the process. Highly recommended.
End result, a big improvement. Where the car was under-damped and thrown about by bumps, it's now much calmer and more predictable. Tramlining much reduced. It's set up for fast A road use and combined with the Michelins, the turn-in and grip are amazing. The guys at CG are great, real enthusiasts. I learned a lot about the car and was involved throughout the process. Highly recommended.
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