997 Turbo Prices

[Adam B]

Billsnemesis said:

In the nicest possible way this is b****y infuriating. I set myself a budget of £40K to get a 996t and now I find that I am right on the cusp, only a few £k short of a 997. The spec on the 997 hits all the buttons but some of the interior colour schemes really challenge the stomach muscles and most of the outsides are silver when I have my heart set on blue.

Aaaaarrrrggghhhh.

Rant over. I am just going to have to do better man maths, go for the 997 and scratch around until one comes along in the right hue.

Anyone know how common blue was on the 997? I am not searching for unicorn poo am I?

hahaha first world problem - did exactly the same as you, although gap was bigger March 2014 when I did the man maths and went 997 turbo - it was so much easier to find a 997 that ticked the boxes as the spec was much better as standard than the 996 for my tastes (I wanted bits of ali inside for example and 997 has that look as standard) and I was umming and ahhing over the 450hp X50 when the 997 had 480hp and no X50 option to worry about. Adding in the far better seats/interior and (for me) the nicer frotn end and rear spoiler I managed to justify the £6-7k premium I paid over a high spec 996

Cobalt blue are fairly common, but dark blues are no way near as common on 997 as midnight was on 996 from my hunt

[9e 28]

Billsnemesis said:

The price differential between 996T's and 997T's seems to be very close at the moment. There are 7T's in the low forties and 6T's at similar prices with only modest differences in mileage.

Should we be suspicious of the quality of the 7's or sceptical about the price of the 6's?

996t has better steering (no vario rack), better and more reliable conventional turbos, and a better 4wd system from a driver perspective as 95% of the drive always goes to the rear wheels unless the viscous coupling system senses wheel spin at the front and then sends drive to the front hence its far more progressive and predictable than the later system. In fact in the Ruf RT12 R which is based on the 997 they kept the 4wd system from 996 and went for conventional KKK turbos on a forged 3.8 Mezger producing 730 bhp although many say this car had more like 780bhp. My perfect car in fact!

https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/200/articles...

Going back to the 996 turbo long term for the reasons above it may be more sought after than the 997 turbo just as the 993 turbo is more desirable than the 996 turbo albeit because its air-cooled and a beautiful 959 esq shape.

Edited by 9e 28 on Thursday 24th September 16:11

[Billsnemesis]

9e 28 said:

Billsnemesis said:

The price differential between 996T's and 997T's seems to be very close at the moment. There are 7T's in the low forties and 6T's at similar prices with only modest differences in mileage.

Should we be suspicious of the quality of the 7's or sceptical about the price of the 6's?

996t has better steering (no vario rack), better and more reliable conventional turbos, and a better 4wd system from a driver perspective as 95% of the drive always goes to the rear wheels unless the viscous coupling system senses wheel spin at the front and then sends drive to the front hence its far more progressive and predictable than the later system. In fact in the Ruf RT12 R which is based on the 997 they kept the 4wd system from 996 and went for conventional KKK turbos on a forged 3.8 Mezger producing 730 bhp although many say this car had more like 780bhp. My perfect car in fact!

https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/200/articles...

Going back to the 996 turbo long term for the reasons above it may be more sought after than the 997 turbo just as the 993 turbo is more desirable than the 996 turbo albeit because its air-cooled and a beautiful 959 esq shape.

Edited by 9e 28 on Thursday 24th September 16:11

YOU'RE NOT HELPING!!

I am going to be stupidly excited whichever one I get. Impatience is now my biggest problem.

[Denno B]

Adam B said:

Denno B said:

Neither really, just the way the market is going. 996t's are starting to surpass 997t's , that's just the crazy Porsche market for you.

and you are comparing better 996s vs bottom of the 997s (which are older or higher mileage or undesirable specs)

Not necessarily, there are currently around a dozen 996's in the classifieds between the £45-50k mark, average mileage of these are around 50k. There are a few more 997's in the same price bracket available, these tend to average around 50k miles aswell. Not all of those 996's are going to be better examples than the 997's, they are just appreciating at a much faster rate at the moment. They are actually making the newer model look a bit of a bargain imo.

[Adam B]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

hope he's right but but the price change would seem to cast some doubt, if you don't mind me asking how did you value the car when sizing up an offer?

[Adam B]

9e 28 said:

Going back to the 996 turbo long term for the reasons above it may be more sought after than the 997 turbo just as the 993 turbo is more desirable than the 996 turbo albeit because its air-cooled and a beautiful 959 esq shape.

Whilst i don't disagree with your points in favour of 996 the differences between 993 and 996/7 are huge compared to the (IMHO) very similar 996 and 997. I am not knocking the 996 turbo at all, it was my plan A for a number of years until circumstances were right for me to jump back into a Porsche. I think both cars are fantastic, and its purely personal and subjective reasons behind my preference.

Would be curious as to your view above though, both were produced in similar numbers (insignificantly more 996) and both offer similar thrills and value. I personally don't think 99% will consider the dynamic aspects you mention (outside of PH) and it will come down to preference on looks. The 996 has enjoyed some price inflation because it was a much lower price point a couple of years ago when many articles come out championing it (quite rightly) as a performance bargain. Now they are similar prices to earlier 997.1s that is no longer the case, so will be interesting to see if the rise continues. I don't know and don't especially care as I intend to hang on to my car for a good while yet but I cannot really see 996s rising above equivalent 997s unless purely nostalgia reasons.

I think good manual 996/7s with the Mezger engine will hold value pretty well however, despite my bias

[Mark A S]

From my perspective I prefer my 996t over the 997 t as it has less Driver “interference” aids and is more “mechanical” than the 997t.

I compete in mine and normally in my class is a very similarly modded 997t, we often talk about our cars to each other and its quite apparent they are both very similar to drive. The 997t gets off the line a bit faster as apparently its 4wd system is more effective at sensing traction and the clutch apparently has a better feel. Both cars are very much on their nose, as regards handling, in other words, NO understeer.

The 997t has a more modern interior and has better looking headlights [ IMO ] however in all other respects I think the 996t is a purer look, less “fussy” and I actually like the older look interior as it reminds me of the older Air cooled cars, you know crap ergonomics, but great charm!

For just a [ epic ] road car I would go and drive both, preferably on the same day, nice choice to have though

[9e 28]

Mark I think you hit the nail on the head. The 996 turbo has a raw and more mechanical feel to it than the 997 turbo. Whether this helps long term values of the 996 turbo who knows as the 997 interior and headlights are an improvement no doubt. I guess i'm also saying Mezger 997 turbo seems a bargain at the moment.

[Sebba]

Rocco1 said:

Asking price was ££54/55k
Im sure car sold for lmuch lower than asking price (£52/3k)
I remeber the new seller saying we have to prep the car yet it was like new in the first place lol

I remember speaking to the private owner of this car when he was selling - he sold it for £53k.
I was going to go for it but something didn't quite feel right about the car/seller so I left it....it also due a service.

I did laugh when I saw it re-advertised at this ludicrous price a couple of weeks later....

[Rocco1]

It will be a long time before this car is sold unless it is correctly priced
Most on here know it sold for £53/54k,no one is that stupid to pay over £15k for the same car!
This said at some point i am sure it was advertised for £85k saying it was an investment,some investment it has turned out to be!

Edited by Rocco1 on Friday 25th September 17:14

[9e 28]

FWIW if the ultra low miles 997 turbo checks out I think its worth £65k day night long. When you look at 3.2C, 964 and 993 prices its actually a bit of a bargain subject to it having no stories behind the scenes. An OPC would have paid more than £53k for it hence why I'm a bit cautious. Whoever the dealer is wouldn't bother me at all = always buy the car not the dealer.

[Rocco1]

Sold mine 997t one year newer with 9000 miles and balance of OPC warranty for £60k,my car was like new not a mark on it
How this seller is expecting to sell it for the asking price is beyond me

[9e 28]

Rocco1 said:

Sold mine 997t one year newer with 9000 miles and balance of OPC warranty for £60k,my car was like new not a mark on it
How this seller is expecting to sell it for the asking price is beyond me

Think you could have got a bit more for yours. I've seen good ultra low miles cars sell for £65k albeit from OPCs.

[Whoozit]

9e 28 said:

Think you could have got a bit more for yours. I've seen good ultra low miles cars sell for £65k albeit from OPCs.

OPC markup is £7-10k based on my 6 months looking around for a 997T earlier this year.

[Modern Classics]

9e 28 said:

Mark I think you hit the nail on the head. The 996 turbo has a raw and more mechanical feel to it than the 997 turbo. Whether this helps long term values of the 996 turbo who knows as the 997 interior and headlights are an improvement no doubt. I guess i'm also saying Mezger 997 turbo seems a bargain at the moment.

Here here. The 996 T is starting to look and feel like an old school Porsche
now. And if you send it to 9E for even a mild tune just as quick as the 7T. For me
the 6T will remain the ultimate 911 Turbo and every other bugger is starting to
see just that now too, the older stuff is not quick enough and the newer stuff....
.well.......where is the fun in that

[Billsnemesis]

Weird things seem to happening with prices. Two 996T's for sale at the same showroom each seem to be a different price every week. One looked tempting even to the point of considering flying up from London to have a look but when the asking price seems to have more to do with chaos theory than the laws of supply and demand I may decide to shop closer to home.

997's don't seem to be suffering the same level of price abuse so just what the fudge is going on? Do dealers really not understand that someone who sees the price go down £3k one week and up £6k the following week is going to take anything they say about the cars as utter bilge?

[Mario149]

Modern Classics said:

The 996 T is starting to look and feel like an old school Porsche
now.

To be fair, that will be the case with every 911 I think. 5-6 years ago pre-89 NA cars were about £8.50 in the classifieds, 964s were the unloved ropier worse driving brother of the 993 and could be had for mid-teens, 993s had a minor following as last of the air cooled, 996.1s looked too much like boxsters, 996.2s had ugly lights etc etc

And now, all people do is wax lyrical about how amazing these cars are when many wouldn't have looked twice in 2009 even if they'd had the money. Nothing significant has changed apart from people's perceptions and the degree of rose-tinting. They're all great cars to be clear, but equally they all have flaws. And the 997 will follow suit, so will the 991.1 etc.

We always crave the good old days, and that combined with the fact that on average we're all getting more affluent means that there will always be demand in a way there never previously was. If by some miracle prices do fall back to pre-2010 levels, the irony is we won't care as it'll be because we're no longer interested in the cars for some reason which is exactly what will have caused the price drop.

To be clear, I'm not having a dig at anyone and I'm not immune either. 5 years ago I couldn't have given 2 hoots about a pre-89 hardtop carrera for £15K, ask me now, and I'd consider it at £30K if I had the money and space

[Adam B]

Agree with you Mario

Although the 996t owners claiming such things as this make me a bit:

"The 996T is starting to look and feel like an old school Porsche now.
For me the 6T will remain the ultimate 911 Turbo
the older stuff is not quick enough and the newer stuff.... well.......where is the fun in that"

930/964 are
993 somewhere in between -aircooled but 4wd
996/997/991 modern

Neither 996T or 997T are old school Porsche IMHO - they go, turn and look similar. Which you prefer comes largely down to budget and looks preference. Both are great value. 996T appreciating more as they came from a lower base and are closer in rose-tinted age perspective to the much higher valued 993 turbo

[Mark A S]

I'll think you find most owners think there particular version of the 911 is the best
Of course, the 996 turbo IS THE BEST

[Adam B]

not so sir, I have a 997 turbo which I would swap for a 993 or a 964 3.6 in a heartbeat, but not a 996