The best time to buy a Porsche 997 for £20k ...NOW
Discussion
rubystone said:
So 2.4s had weak crankcases, 2.7s suffered from borewash, 3 litres and 3.2s broke head studs, 964s were leaky, 996s had RMS issues, Boxsters IMS, 997 bore scoring.
Guess I've been lucky with the 911s I've owned then?
Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing. If I followed advice on here, I'd tool around in a diesel Golf...oh hang on a mo, doesn't the injection pump fail on them too?
THIS ^^^^^^Guess I've been lucky with the 911s I've owned then?
Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing. If I followed advice on here, I'd tool around in a diesel Golf...oh hang on a mo, doesn't the injection pump fail on them too?
That's why I've just bought a '98 996 C2 manual
belfry said:
OP, how about one like this? C4S with Porsche warranty just over your budget
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
That looks like a steal! Can't go wrong as it has an OPC warranty too.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Shaoxter said:
That looks like a steal! Can't go wrong as it has an OPC warranty too.
Nice to have but bear in mind as the car will be 10yrs old at the end of the current warranty period (2016) that may mean you won't be able to renew it again (think the limit is 10yrs within OPC network). Ger-lkhgm said:
The 996 always gets bad press for having a chocolate engine, but it seems as thought he 997 is worse, am I right?
- ie same block, but now bored out to 3.8 so its even more prone to the issues which arise.
Yet, the 997 seems to get favourable write ups in the motoring press.
Or am I missing something?
Ger
Correctamundo. - ie same block, but now bored out to 3.8 so its even more prone to the issues which arise.
Yet, the 997 seems to get favourable write ups in the motoring press.
Or am I missing something?
Ger
Cmoose's summary is spot-on. IMS and RMS are manageable weak points that have relatively cost effective preventative remedies. Whereas the inadequate oil cooling/localised cylinder over-heating that causes scoring of the bores in many 997 model M97 engines, is even more prevalent in the 3.8 due to the thinner cylinder walls.
996 could actually be less of a risk in this regard...which is interesting. :-)
I'd imagine that any 911 engine with 150k needs inspection. The old air-cooled ones were never untouched at those miles (993 excepted, from what I hear).
I'm hoping the 997 continues to get a drubbing to depress prices even more, but it does seem from what's been posted here that the Gen 1 is fundamentally flawed??
I'm hoping the 997 continues to get a drubbing to depress prices even more, but it does seem from what's been posted here that the Gen 1 is fundamentally flawed??
Love the risk comparisons so basically your much better off buying a 996 than a 997 even if you really want one because the 997 is more likely to be expensive when the bore score's compared to a lunched ims bearing.
I happen to like 996 as well but probably do prefer 997's and as far as going for a 996 instead just because the engine repair is cheaper when it blows up sounds nonsense.
There has always been a risk with getting a big repair bill with a 911, what about SC and there engine studs breaking and so on.....
Surely you should buy the car you like and except high performance cars sometimes cost high performance money to repair... The only difference with later 911's is that there have been engine problems early on in there life which is different, normally it was 60k plus miles, but is that better, does that mean 70k + cars are okay?? Who knows
I happen to like 996 as well but probably do prefer 997's and as far as going for a 996 instead just because the engine repair is cheaper when it blows up sounds nonsense.
There has always been a risk with getting a big repair bill with a 911, what about SC and there engine studs breaking and so on.....
Surely you should buy the car you like and except high performance cars sometimes cost high performance money to repair... The only difference with later 911's is that there have been engine problems early on in there life which is different, normally it was 60k plus miles, but is that better, does that mean 70k + cars are okay?? Who knows
I had a 996 for 5 years & it never missed a beat
Owned a early 997 & had to get a new engine after approx. 32k miles. Hopping mad I was back then!
No matter how much you examine inspect the early 997, you cant tell if a large repair bill is heading your way
And no matter how well you have purchased the car for, and lets say its £20k, a large bill to replace the engine is gonna sting. Big time
Owned a early 997 & had to get a new engine after approx. 32k miles. Hopping mad I was back then!
No matter how much you examine inspect the early 997, you cant tell if a large repair bill is heading your way
And no matter how well you have purchased the car for, and lets say its £20k, a large bill to replace the engine is gonna sting. Big time
JasonRIx said:
On a more positive note, if these cars were as unreliable as everyone said then the obvious question is, why would quality independent sellers, who are normally so quick to reject a car that isn't immaculate, be willing to sell these cars all the time? If they were that unreliable then they simply wouldn't buy them.
I have asked this question before, nobody seems to have an answer.
Shaoxter, doubtful any more info regarding this incident will be laid bare here!
If the worst were to happen, is a Hartech rebuild really that big a deal to be concerned about. A rebuild on an air-cooled is considerably more expensive and isn't really a fix, just an extension, resetting of it's serviceable lifespan. A Hartech rebuild will give you peace of mind for so long as you choose to keep the car. I know of no Hartech rebuild that has s
t itself post rebuild.
If the worst were to happen, is a Hartech rebuild really that big a deal to be concerned about. A rebuild on an air-cooled is considerably more expensive and isn't really a fix, just an extension, resetting of it's serviceable lifespan. A Hartech rebuild will give you peace of mind for so long as you choose to keep the car. I know of no Hartech rebuild that has s
t itself post rebuild.I think the point is that if the M96/97 engines st themselves for a past time then no dealer would touch them as the law of averages would mean they'd be swamped with warranty claims. That & the dealers would have a horrendous reputation for selling duff cars, even though in many cases it wouldn't be their fault.
t themselves for a past time then no dealer would touch them as the law of averages would mean they'd be swamped with warranty claims. That & the dealers would have a horrendous reputation for selling duff cars, even though in many cases it wouldn't be their fault.Plenty of SC's, 3.2's, 993's need rebuilds and have engine faults.
My main issue with a 997 would be that currently there are very few recommended places to get these engines rebuilt reliably.
Hartech obviously have a good reputation, but they're in Bolton - fine for the initial rebuilt but a PITA for ongoing servicing.
Shame they haven't opened a second site or teamed up to work with a respected indie like Jaz or JZM to offer a fitting and serving service further south.
My main issue with a 997 would be that currently there are very few recommended places to get these engines rebuilt reliably.
Hartech obviously have a good reputation, but they're in Bolton - fine for the initial rebuilt but a PITA for ongoing servicing.
Shame they haven't opened a second site or teamed up to work with a respected indie like Jaz or JZM to offer a fitting and serving service further south.
g7jhp said:
Plenty of SC's, 3.2's, 993's need rebuilds and have engine faults.
My main issue with a 997 would be that currently there are very few recommended places to get these engines rebuilt reliably.
Hartech obviously have a good reputation, but they're in Bolton - fine for the initial rebuilt but a PITA for ongoing servicing.
Shame they haven't opened a second site or teamed up to work with a respected indie like Jaz or JZM to offer a fitting and serving service further south.
Baz/Grant are you listening???My main issue with a 997 would be that currently there are very few recommended places to get these engines rebuilt reliably.
Hartech obviously have a good reputation, but they're in Bolton - fine for the initial rebuilt but a PITA for ongoing servicing.
Shame they haven't opened a second site or teamed up to work with a respected indie like Jaz or JZM to offer a fitting and serving service further south.
Richie200 said:
Baz/Grant are you listening???
I think they've answered this question before. Something along the lines of not being cost effective to open a branch down south and having enough work already as people are prepared to trailer their cars to Bolton.I don't really buy it to be honest, I think they're missing out on a MASSIVE business opportunity.
Shaoxter said:
I think they've answered this question before. Something along the lines of not being cost effective to open a branch down south and having enough work already as people are prepared to trailer their cars to Bolton.
I don't really buy it to be honest, I think they're missing out on a MASSIVE business opportunity.
Sounds like it. Could be purely a service centre in the south and keep all rebuild services in Bolton. I would have thought it could double or triple the numbers of cars on Hartech service plans. Customers could still be charged to transport cars/engines to and from Bolton in the case of rebuilds - just make sure that is clarified at the outset. I don't really buy it to be honest, I think they're missing out on a MASSIVE business opportunity.
Shaoxter said:
Richie200 said:
Baz/Grant are you listening???
I think they've answered this question before. Something along the lines of not being cost effective to open a branch down south and having enough work already as people are prepared to trailer their cars to Bolton.I don't really buy it to be honest, I think they're missing out on a MASSIVE business opportunity.
The idea of teaming up with another indie seems like a no brainer. The initial engine rebuild and fitting could still be done at Hartech in Bolton, but the servicing would be handed over to a 3rd party (eg. Jaz/JZM) who would ensure they got the maintenance plan.
I imagine the maintenance plan is lucrative once they've fitted a new engine and that's why they don't want to use a 3rd party.
A know a number of indies dealers who use other indies for work on cars which are further a field to reduce costs.
g7jhp said:
I agree and I can see it's expensive/a risk to open a second site.
The idea of teaming up with another indie seems like a no brainer. The initial engine rebuild and fitting could still be done at Hartech in Bolton, but the servicing would be handed over to a 3rd party (eg. Jaz/JZM) who would ensure they got the maintenance plan.
I imagine the maintenance plan is lucrative once they've fitted a new engine and that's why they don't want to use a 3rd party.
A know a number of indies dealers who use other indies for work on cars which are further a field to reduce costs.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way round.The idea of teaming up with another indie seems like a no brainer. The initial engine rebuild and fitting could still be done at Hartech in Bolton, but the servicing would be handed over to a 3rd party (eg. Jaz/JZM) who would ensure they got the maintenance plan.
I imagine the maintenance plan is lucrative once they've fitted a new engine and that's why they don't want to use a 3rd party.
A know a number of indies dealers who use other indies for work on cars which are further a field to reduce costs.
Hartech have said their maintenance plan is to ensure repeat servicing business for them. When they do an engine rebuild under the plan they lose out because they're effectively paying out on their own warranty.
Therefore I think teaming up with another indy wouldn't work, but opening another site down south just for the regular servicing and enabling people to get on the plan seems a no brainer. I certainly would join if they did that. Then the Bolton branch would just focus on rebuilds.
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