The best time to buy a Porsche 997 for £20k ...NOW
Discussion
So I think three pages on we are sorted, but just one last thing on engine failure and timing timing.
As mentioned before the difference with the air cooled and water cooled failures is when they have happened in life, old 911 needed engine work at 80, 90 or in the case of 964 60k miles which people seem.As acceptable ish but the latest ims, bore scoring etc has generally happened to young engines 30 etc miles, some 60 but I never heard of an ims issue or bore scoring at 100k.
With 996's ims issues everybody thought all 996 would fail at 100k miles but they haven't haven't, the ones that are okay seem always 100k ++ okay so maybe the same goes for borescoring.....time will tell
As mentioned before the difference with the air cooled and water cooled failures is when they have happened in life, old 911 needed engine work at 80, 90 or in the case of 964 60k miles which people seem.As acceptable ish but the latest ims, bore scoring etc has generally happened to young engines 30 etc miles, some 60 but I never heard of an ims issue or bore scoring at 100k.
With 996's ims issues everybody thought all 996 would fail at 100k miles but they haven't haven't, the ones that are okay seem always 100k ++ okay so maybe the same goes for borescoring.....time will tell
YoungMD said:
As mentioned before the difference with the air cooled and water cooled failures is when they have happened in life, old 911 needed engine work at 80, 90 or in the case of 964 60k miles which people seem.As acceptable ish but the latest ims, bore scoring etc has generally happened to young engines 30 etc miles, some 60 but I never heard of an ims issue or bore scoring at 100k.
With 996's ims issues everybody thought all 996 would fail at 100k miles but they haven't haven't, the ones that are okay seem always 100k ++ okay so maybe the same goes for borescoring.....time will tell
Plenty of air cooled cars over 100k miles, they just need to be well maintained and used. I ran two 3.2's to over 120k each with no sign they needed engine work, despite me asking each year.With 996's ims issues everybody thought all 996 would fail at 100k miles but they haven't haven't, the ones that are okay seem always 100k ++ okay so maybe the same goes for borescoring.....time will tell
Lots of 996's have IMS issues but that's become a serviceable item. Don't kid yourself with the bore scoring on the 997 it's a bigger fail, happens more often and is a more expensive job to put right. I like the 997.1 and it would be great to see a cost effective fix.
Fl0pp3r said:
+1 Agree it is far more a question of to what degree - rather than IF - these M97 units have at least some scoring.
I believe Hartech's various fixes do address this issue comprehensively so it's a no-brainer imho.
......ermmI believe Hartech's various fixes do address this issue comprehensively so it's a no-brainer imho.
The latest issue is always the biggest...rms was a terrible issue with 996 as was their cylinder issues, then came ims, and so on....
Air cooled engines do tend not to fail early in life but if you want your 3.2 to be producing top bhp 100k plus a rebuild will not be too far away. Let's see how long these 997.1 engines last but my guessing is give it 5 years time and the issues will not really be discussed, the problem cars fixed and the other fall by the wayside...
YoungMD said:
......ermm
The latest issue is always the biggest...rms was a terrible issue with 996 as was their cylinder issues, then came ims, and so on....
Air cooled engines do tend not to fail early in life but if you want your 3.2 to be producing top bhp 100k plus a rebuild will not be too far away. Let's see how long these 997.1 engines last but my guessing is give it 5 years time and the issues will not really be discussed, the problem cars fixed and the other fall by the wayside...
The fact that Porsche built a radically different engine for the 997.2 should tell you all you need to know about the 997.1 engines and their service life...or lack of it. The latest issue is always the biggest...rms was a terrible issue with 996 as was their cylinder issues, then came ims, and so on....
Air cooled engines do tend not to fail early in life but if you want your 3.2 to be producing top bhp 100k plus a rebuild will not be too far away. Let's see how long these 997.1 engines last but my guessing is give it 5 years time and the issues will not really be discussed, the problem cars fixed and the other fall by the wayside...
As I understand it there are two types if ims bearings on a 997.1, the early cars have the smaller one which is easier to change and cheaper,whilst the older ones after 2006 ish have the bigger better one which is very difficult to change. They say the bigger one is better, either way failure rate as I understand it is pretty small on 997.1.
The bigger issue is bore scoring.... But that seems a complicated story, I personally think 'generally' it's down to how the cars are looked after, but not necessarily how much they are driven hard but how much they are floored when cold early down the rpm range, that's why tips suffer and why the 3.8 suffers as it has such a lot of torque lower down the rpm range... But that's just my opinion, but from a year if looking at cars adds (random survey) All the cars listed with engine rebuilds were tips bar one manual.
The bigger issue is bore scoring.... But that seems a complicated story, I personally think 'generally' it's down to how the cars are looked after, but not necessarily how much they are driven hard but how much they are floored when cold early down the rpm range, that's why tips suffer and why the 3.8 suffers as it has such a lot of torque lower down the rpm range... But that's just my opinion, but from a year if looking at cars adds (random survey) All the cars listed with engine rebuilds were tips bar one manual.
roygarth said:
rubystone said:
So 2.4s had weak crankcases, 2.7s suffered from borewash, 3 litres and 3.2s broke head studs, 964s were leaky, 996s had RMS issues, Boxsters IMS, 997 bore scoring.
Guess I've been lucky with the 911s I've owned then?
Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing. If I followed advice on here, I'd tool around in a diesel Golf...oh hang on a mo, doesn't the injection pump fail on them too?
Good point well made.Guess I've been lucky with the 911s I've owned then?
Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing. If I followed advice on here, I'd tool around in a diesel Golf...oh hang on a mo, doesn't the injection pump fail on them too?
POORCARDEALER said:
I have probably had 100 911s through my hands of various ilk and apart from oil leaks and one 3.2 needing a top end rebuild no other engine issues
Like an old WW2 grenade.Just because they didn't explode (whilst you sold them on), doesn't mean they're not going to!
g7jhp said:
POORCARDEALER said:
I have probably had 100 911s through my hands of various ilk and apart from oil leaks and one 3.2 needing a top end rebuild no other engine issues
Like an old WW2 grenade.Just because they didn't explode (whilst you sold them on), doesn't mean they're not going to!
StuH said:
g7jhp said:
Like an old WW2 grenade.
Just because they didn't explode (whilst you sold them on), doesn't mean they're not going to!
Lol - what's a sample of 100 actual cars compared to internet wisdom Just because they didn't explode (whilst you sold them on), doesn't mean they're not going to!
Occam's razor.
My point being I presume POORCARDEALER checks his car properly before taking them (so rejects obvious turkeys). If they're then sold on they're not owned for long and spend most of the time stationary.
Of the 100 how many where aircooled or Mezger engined (turbo/GT£ etc) cars with a good engine reliability?
If it had been 100 997.1 C2S, then it would have been more interesting.
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