£80k 991 4S Cab PDK or £50k 997 2S Gen 2 Cab PDK

[amer911]

Taking into account (mainly) residual value and also running costs, which is likely to lose less money: a £80k 991 4S or a £50k 997 2S

Basically I'd rather spend £50k (who wouldn't) but would be willing to spend £80k if I was pretty confident that overall I would lose less money in say 3 or 4 years. Also love the look of the 991 lights at the rear more than anything. But not £30k more of course.

Any thoughts?

Ps. yes if I could afford it (and didn't need 2+2) (and could drive like a racing driver) then I'd be looking at cars like the GT range re residuals but that's another conversation

PPs. however, am willing to consider the 997 Turbo as the inbetween to above.

[Budweiser]

Drive them all and follow your heart... All great cars in different ways. Residuals are a dark art and your guess is as good as mine.

Good luck and enjoy the test drives...

[amer911]

Budweiser said:

Drive them all and follow your heart... All great cars in different ways. Residuals are a dark art and your guess is as good as mine.

Good luck and enjoy the test drives...

Ha! Yes, I wish more of us could live like your suggestion. It's easy to forget that all these purchases are largely emotional.

I suspect they will both drive sufficiently well for me. My heart says 991 because of the looks (most especially the rear lights and the much cleaner convertible roof line ... being an old AMG SL55 man, I like the convertible to have smooth lines ) but my wallet (and the tax man, accountant, mortgage provider, travel agent, etc etc and etc) are pulling me in the other direction. Now, if I could show them something to comfort them (i.e. residuals) then we may all be smiling.

Just a thought, is there a website that lets me quote on used cars in terms of financing with residual buy back values (similar to those schemes available on new cars)? Could run the options through that and whilst still of course a black art, at least would give some indication what the professionals who make money on these movements are currently willing to put money on.

[gilliambot]

My blind stab in the dark guess would be the 991 would lose more as the 997 has probably started to plateau in price whereas the 991 is still in free fall. But if I was in your position I would still choose the 991 it's an all round better car and cars will always depreciate just forget about that it's kind of pointless really, you may have saved yourself a chunk of change going 997 but everytime a 991 drives past you might be thinking S--t should have got the 991!

[amer911]

gilliambot said:

My blind stab in the dark guess would be the 991 would lose more as the 997 has probably started to plateau in price whereas the 991 is still in free fall. But if I was in your position I would still choose the 991 it's an all round better car and cars will always depreciate just forget about that it's kind of pointless really, you may have saved yourself a chunk of change going 997 but everytime a 991 drives past you might be thinking S--t should have got the 991!

Ever thought of a career as a salesman?

I may or may not have thought your closing remark. But now I most definitely would :/

£30k spent in a sentence.

[uktrailmonster]

The £50K 997 is going to be significantly cheaper overall. The simple fact that it's already £30K further down the depreciation curve says it all. So forget the man maths, the 991 is £30K more expensive and will depreciate more in the next few years, making that gap even larger. Funnily enough I'm in a similar boat wondering whether to trade up my 997.2 4S for a 991 4S or possibly even a new 991 4 GTS or wait for the new facelift model. But one thing is for sure, keeping my current 997 is the most cost effective option!

As for the drive, I borrowed a 991 4GTS at the weekend and it was very nice indeed and certainly better than my 997.2 4S in every way. But it was all incrementally better, not a huge "wow" step forward.

[amer911]

Fair point uktrailmonster although I do have to say a part of me thinks the 991 4S could be one of those special ones which becomes a classic (a bit like the 996 4S is becoming right now). It's all about the back end look which I personally feel maybe was lost slightly on the 997 range as they didn't integrate the strip as closely with the main rear light clusters (as they did on 996 and again on 991).

It's definitely not all about the maths. I'm pretty sure if I saw a white with red interior 991 4S Cab PDK in my price range I would snap it up and worry about the £30k difference another day!

[cat with a hat]

I wouldn't want to dump £80k into an 991 4s...

Try to test drive the 991 and 997 side by side and think.. Is this really worth 30k extra?

You could get a 2013 convertible V10 R8 for 80k

( Although if that was my money, I wouldn't get either :P as residuals will be pretty poor on all of them)

Edited by cat with a hat on Monday 29th June 15:25

[uktrailmonster]

amer911 said:

Fair point uktrailmonster although I do have to say a part of me thinks the 991 4S could be one of those special ones which becomes a classic (a bit like the 996 4S is becoming right now). It's all about the back end look which I personally feel maybe was lost slightly on the 997 range as they didn't integrate the strip as closely with the main rear light clusters (as they did on 996 and again on 991).

It's definitely not all about the maths. I'm pretty sure if I saw a white with red interior 991 4S Cab PDK in my price range I would snap it up and worry about the £30k difference another day!

It's all personal taste, I actually prefer the bum on the 997.2 to the 991, which for me looks a bit too much like an Aston. But ultimately both are good looking cars, so it's not a critical point for me, although the facelift 991 is looking like an improvement in this regard. As for future classics, you'll be waiting a long long time for any of these Carreras to start actually appreciating in value and the base value for any rise will not be anything like £80K. I haven't looked at 996 pricing for a good few years now, but last time I looked a decent 996 4S was mid £20Ks and I doubt they've stepped up much from that today. It's a far cry from £80K isn't it? Plus you'll need to have a mint low mileage example, so don't think about putting big mileage on it.

If you want something along these lines that might not depreciate too much, then why not look at a 997.2 GTS? They seem to be very strong on residuals and probably not that many around. All 997.2 models seem to have done particularly well on depreciation in recent years. I paid £47K for my 2009 4S at the end of 2013 (main dealer, low mileage etc) and looking at main dealer prices today they are more or less the same price. Quite surprising really, I expected a drop of at least £5-6K per annum.

[hondansx]

991 residuals may be OK if the Gen 2 is rubbish. However, if the Gen 2 is excellent in terms of retaining character despite the turbo configuration, then surely Gen 1 prices will be plummet.

Frankly, a 991 cab is NOT a 911. It is a status symbol and nothing more. It doesn't drive or feel like a proper Porsche in any way. That is not to say it's not a very good car. The 997 is the last of the breed...

[uktrailmonster]

hondansx said:

The 997 is the last of the breed...

Too funny. The 993 was the last of the breed. Oh wait no, it was surely the C3.2. No, maybe the '73 RS was the last. Porsche keep calling it a 911, but it's changed so much over the years it's a completely different car today. But the 997 is not even the last of anything of real note. Maybe the last true hydraulic assisted steering 911

[amer911]

hondansx said:

991 residuals may be OK if the Gen 2 is rubbish. However, if the Gen 2 is excellent in terms of retaining character despite the turbo configuration, then surely Gen 1 prices will be plummet.

Frankly, a 991 cab is NOT a 911. It is a status symbol and nothing more. It doesn't drive or feel like a proper Porsche in any way. That is not to say it's not a very good car. The 997 is the last of the breed...

I am not a Porsche expert by any means but have owned one several years ago and read various articles and user comments. One thing is for certain ... certain groups have been banging on about what is a true Porsche and what isn't for decades. This always amuses me in a similar manner to the pub tv screen football commentator. They are all true Porsches by definition and I would never fool myself that Porsche bring out some models altruistically whilst others are marketing ploys. All the models are designed to make money and have been for decades. It may have been different 50 years ago. All the arguments re cabs may well be true but as we know there are as many valid arguments for the much adored 'real' GT3 ... I would be willing to put money on a bet that the majority (or at least a huge chunk) of GT3 owners couldn't drive a C2 Cab anywhere near its limits well. I'm very much in that category of driver too, i.e. someone who spends most of my time working in an office making money enabling me to splurge on such toys rather than improving my driving skills on a track 6 days a week, so would never expect to match for example the expertise of those that do

[c4sman]

Having just done a back to back, both cars you're looking at are great, but if you are worried about depreciation before you have even bought the car, stay away from the newer car. Simples.

You're going to be constantly scanning the classifies after you buy the 991 and feeling unhappy as the 30k premium slides off its value fairly quickly. Thr 997 will do the same, but I recon at 50% of the speed by £ value. If your not worried about the depreciation, buy the car you want which sounds like the 991. It's a great car and from the previous motor you had (SL), it might be a lot more suited to your expectations and likes than the 997.

[johnnyrouse]

Newbie here with virgin post.

My advice would be get the 991.

I've got a 997.2 C4S Cab. I'm about to pull trigger on a 991 GTS. The primary reason is the looks, crazy reason considering the car will be double the price. But the more 991's I see I can't help but feel my 997 is just starting to look a bit dated.I'm really into the rear lights too, so much better IMHO.

I reckon if you go for the 997 you'll be dumping more cash in a year to upgrade to the newer design.

The debate about GTSvsC2S/4S is another issue entirely...

Enjoy your decision process, it's half the fun

[amer911]

Agreed - and actually even more than the lights its the roof that was the tipping point. We want a cab and saw one at Guildford Porsche yesterday (black 997 GTS 4S Cab) ... unfortunately it just looked old and used with the canvas top having faded in sun over 3 years and the not so clean shape compared to the 991 roof line. Having said that they have a white coupe version and that looked stunning, even parked next to a new 991 Turbo.

So now we just need to find one with red leather (wife's only condition ... oh, along with "it must be convertible"!) ... wasn't this searching supposed to be fun??

[GT4RS]

Can't go far wrong, owned a gen2 997 s for around 3 years. Ours is a tin top but what a car

[cat with a hat]

johnnyrouse said:

Newbie here with virgin post.

My advice would be get the 991.

I've got a 997.2 C4S Cab. I'm about to pull trigger on a 991 GTS. The primary reason is the looks, crazy reason considering the car will be double the price. But the more 991's I see I can't help but feel my 997 is just starting to look a bit dated.I'm really into the rear lights too, so much better IMHO.

I reckon if you go for the 997 you'll be dumping more cash in a year to upgrade to the newer design.

The debate about GTSvsC2S/4S is another issue entirely...

Enjoy your decision process, it's half the fun

Sounds like you signed up from work at a porsche dealership..

P.S. It will be cheaper to buy a 997 now and then buy a 991 at a later date.

[Dr S]

Although being a 997 fanboy, I'd go 991 in case I ever wanted a cab - which I dont

[uktrailmonster]

I hate the look of all 911 cabs! The 991 Targa looks a bit better, can you not convince your wife it's a convertible too? A few years ago my wife decided she wanted a 996 cab, but in the end even she had to agree they look st! The 997 cab was a slight improvement and the 991 is another slight improvement, but it's really turd polishing I'm afraid. A 911 should only be a coupe.

[Wilmslowboy]

Both will lose about the same in percentage terms...the mkt for used Porsches (especially gen 2s) has been a bit odd for the past 3 or so years), with PDK gen 2 cars basically costing the same today as in 2011.

Under normal circumstances both would be worth about 50% of current value in 4 years time....if this ends up being accurate the 991 will have cost 15k more (over 4 years)....

I was offered a stunning, low milage, 2013 991 4s a month ago (for mid £70s),unfortunately a distance sale, so my wife and I popped down to the local OPC, to do a final check if it was the car for us....(showrooming )

Looks wise,I think the 991 is a tick above the 997
Interior on the 991 (without starting the bleeding obvious) is a generation ahead of the 997

unfortunately the thing they have still not fixed/ addressed is the "leaning forward" rear seats...my daughters a sub 5 foot, 12 year old, sat in the back (behind my wife) there was plenty of leg room, however she complained of being uncomfortable ...which she didn't in the coupe we also tried out.....