Lowering a 997 GTS

[PorscheGT4]

I tend NOT to buy winters, the UK ave winter temp in the hours I am awake is NOT cold enough for a winter tyre to work over a tyre like the PSS, and being based in the midlands we get no snow either.

A PSS was 100% ok though last winter but still miles better than the CUP2 which is far harder to get heat into. plus the much harder side walls over the PSS reduced ride comfort.

and I again say imo no point running a CUP 2 with only -0.6 degree of camber you will run out of tyre before you can get heat In the tyre !

A 911 driven hard even just for road will want about -1.5 degrees up front.

the UK mean winter temp, show winter tyres to be pointless. (I did buy a set one, there were poor imo)

[jackwood]

PorscheGT4 said:

and I again say imo no point running a CUP 2 with only -0.6 degree of camber you will run out of tyre before you can get heat In the tyre !

A 911 driven hard even just for road will want about -1.5 degrees up front.

That's utter rubbish.

Were you at Bedford the other month when I was there?

I run 30 minutes of negative camber at the front of my GTS. On Cup2's.

Works very well on road and track, thank you.

[PorscheGT4]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So is a PSS over say an N spec older design tyre in the daylight temps we get in the UK. look at the ave winter temps the last few years ! I tried winters about 3 years ago it was pointless and performance was worse for a bigger % of my time in the car ! newer tyres have come a long way over a PS2 for wet roads.
I agree in the very cold a winter is better, the tyre produced heat which is what gives you grip, I can get heat into the PSS in winter.
But UK roads are mostly dry and temps were above 5 degree and we did NOT get one frost 2 years ago. this winter we got a few frosty days, but in the Midlands temps are kept up.

As for camber , again you have no clue, the increase is negligible on a sus design like the 911 has on a 20 mm drop, what a drop does do is reduce the angles(shock is now more compressed) so reducing what Camber the tops mount adjustment will give, lowering will also increase bump steer.

IF you read my post it says fitting the springs reduces the max amount of camber one can get, I did not say lowering a car reduces camber !

quote by me
"I guess because you have lowered it you get much less camber on max settings "


I now know why a lot of tech guys don't post on here and ask me why I bother, people are F4cking clueless and don't even do the stuff they spout about.

Edited by PorscheGT4 on Monday 27th July 10:09

[PorscheGT4]

jackwood said:

That's utter rubbish.

Were you at Bedford the other month when I was there?

I run 30 minutes of negative camber at the front of my GTS. On Cup2's.

Works very well on road and track, thank you.

if you are going to fit winters than YES you could say go cup 2's for summer, but you have a nicer track car and a road car to use any way !

You have a "GT3" But now run a GTS with CUP's on track !! ODD

I stated a PSS will be a better tyre in the cold/wet than the CUP 2, that I know to be true I drive both in the wet and the PSS out performs the CUP, the CUP having bigger issues to get heat into the tyre for road use over the PSS once temps drop.

I have said why I don't buy winters having tried them and finding they perform worse for a bigger % of the time I am in the car.

So my main car has PSS which work all year round and it does not see a track, best road tyre available imo, my summer fun car has -2 camber and runs CUP2's, it just seems the correct way to go.

If you want to track your GTS with compromised camber over your GT3 which is more track bias that's your choice of course ;-)

I don't really like to drive compromised cars that much, I find it frustrating and If I spend >£1k on a set of CUP 2's I don't want to be killing them off with only 1/2 a degree dialled in.
CUP2's were not fun in the rain when I did my Anglesy track day, great for the day (no rain) but the day after in the rain around snowdon I wish it had my PSS on, they were cold and slippy and hard !

So I do find it odd you will fit a winter to your car in winter but would rather run a CUP2 in the rain , because this summer we are getting a lot of rain with a lot of standing water, it seems to rain every day atm !

[PorscheGT4]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You have seen my track vids on you tube, what's terrifying ? or gives you the idea I have all the gear but no idea ?

I am serious this time because you refuse to meet me, will not do a track day with me, you DON'T mod your car and in fact are all talk about what is good and what you will do, but you never do it.
you own a Cayman but want a 911, it's all very amusing.

I on the other hand, track my cars, done 3 different tracks this year, all my cars are modified, I run PSS and CUP 2's a set on each car and drive them side by side (not at the same time, you might pick up on that lol ) my cambers and settings are designed to work at their best with the tyre which is on the car, thus prolonging tyre life and enjoyment.

Have fun in yours and I'll have fun in mine :-)

[jackwood]

PorscheGT4 said:

if you are going to fit winters than YES you could say go cup 2's for summer, but you have a nicer track car and a road car to use any way !

You have a "GT3" But now run a GTS with CUP's on track !! ODD

I stated a PSS will be a better tyre in the cold/wet than the CUP 2, that I know to be true I drive both in the wet and the PSS out performs the CUP, the CUP having bigger issues to get heat into the tyre for road use over the PSS once temps drop.

I have said why I don't buy winters having tried them and finding they perform worse for a bigger % of the time I am in the car.

So my main car has PSS which work all year round and it does not see a track, best road tyre available imo, my summer fun car has -2 camber and runs CUP2's, it just seems the correct way to go.

If you want to track your GTS with compromised camber over your GT3 which is more track bias that's your choice of course ;-)

I don't really like to drive compromised cars that much, I find it frustrating and If I spend >£1k on a set of CUP 2's I don't want to be killing them off with only 1/2 a degree dialled in.
CUP2's were not fun in the rain when I did my Anglesy track day, great for the day (no rain) but the day after in the rain around snowdon I wish it had my PSS on, they were cold and slippy and hard !

So I do find it odd you will fit a winter to your car in winter but would rather run a CUP2 in the rain , because this summer we are getting a lot of rain with a lot of standing water, it seems to rain every day atm !

And this thread is about GTS, not GT3. Why are you even posting in here? You don't have either?

Your initial statement was don't bother with Cup2 and go PSS instead. I stated I run my GTS on Cups and they are fantastic.

You then changed your statement to qualify it as PSS is better in cold temps (below 5c) and I said in those conditions I'd run winter tyres, as would Chris.

Stop moving the goal posts.

Yes I have a track set up GT3. So what? This thread is about GTS, which branches into Cup tyres. A car and set-up I use every day on the road and occasionally on track. I can distinguish between the two. Something you do not appear to be able to do. The GT3 is not relevant to this discussion. So why bring it up? ODD!

I'll ask again. Were you at Bedford the other month when I was there? Did my car look compromised? Did you see me in the pits kicking my tyres and bemoaning my "wrecked" Cup2's and wishing I had dialled in -2deg camber on it before daring to set foot on track?

Or did you see me hooning round all evening, having a laugh, passing pretty much every car on the circuit, and really enjoying myself in my "compromised" car? And then driving off with a set of Cups with their shoulders and virtually every millimetre of their structure showing virtually zero sign of wear?

Why can't you just let people enjoy their cars how they want to? Do you see people questioning your every choice in your cars and set up?

[dave911nut]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Long time reader but first and probably only post, had to comment on this, you display the most troll-like behaviour out of anyone on the Pistonheads forum that I have seen, accusing other members of trolling, taking everything personally, 50% of the threads you 'contribute' to go on to die a slow and/or painful death, you resort to name calling, and never seem to answer a difficult question that is put your way, it's textbook internet forum troll.

There is a 991 thread that you ruined today I think, on that one 4 different posters comment about your attitude. If that was me I'd be embarassed and take a hard look at myself, as it just isn't normal to provoke such a response on a forum that is supposed to be a place to discuss cars. Do you alienate people the same way in real life? Anyway go ahead and accuse me of being a troll, or another member in disguise, anything that's easier to accept than that your behaviour is misjudged and offensive. I actually feel that I'm only exacerbating the situation for others by giving you this attention but on the off chance that you're not antagonising people deliberately for your own amusement, have a think about it.

[LF11]

Hi Chris,

Coming back to this old thread from last summer. Would you say the drop is still only 20mm?

The reason I am wondering is that I am looking at these springs for my GTS (only PASM) and H&R say the drop ought to be 25- 30mm for these springs (29188-1). Do you have SPASM (i.e. Is your starting reference different) or have they settled?

Many thanks!

Alex

[LF11]

... Actually looking at your interior (Sport Chrono) it appears you're already running 10mm lower than my car before the drop, which more or less answers my question in the post above. Would be great if you can confirm? Thanks!

[Magic919]

Sport Chrono doesn't come with any suspension drop.

[LF11]

Magic919 said:

Sport Chrono doesn't come with any suspension drop.

Thanks for pointing out. For some reason assumed SPASM came with SC and vice versa

[Magic919]

Something else to factor in is that RoW Porsche cars are generally 10mm lower than US cars to begin. Might explain H&R's figures.

[chrisABP]

LF11 said:

Hi Chris,

Coming back to this old thread from last summer. Would you say the drop is still only 20mm?

The reason I am wondering is that I am looking at these springs for my GTS (only PASM) and H&R say the drop ought to be 25- 30mm for these springs (29188-1). Do you have SPASM (i.e. Is your starting reference different) or have they settled?

Many thanks!

Alex

Hi Alex

Sorry for delay in replying but been away in Abu Dhabi until the return to COLD reality today!

The H&R 29188-1 is the correct spring kit for the 997.2 GTS (2WD) and I can confirm that even though it is listed as a -30mm drop in the application guide it only lowers the GTS by -20mm. It may well lower a non S car (997.2 Carrera) by the full -30mm but only -20mm on the GTS. I have checked the measurements again this morning and it hasn't settled anymore than the initial -20mm. My car does not have the SPASM option.

I know that some 997.2 GTS had the optional SPASM Sports suspension (supposedly -20mm) & LSD fitted but measuring these cars the ride height drop is closer to -10mm from standard GTS height.

Hope this helps, Chris

[LF11]

Many thanks Chris! Very useful.