Extend gen2 warranty or not
Discussion
S1MMA said:
Looking at this objectively - the older your car gets, the more miles that they cover, the more parts will fail and the better value the warranty is. The only caveat is that in the first year or so of any new car sometimes teething problems arise, but then you always have warranty to cover this. In my experience, it's years 6-10 where you will get much better value from the warranty than from years 2-6. I've had plenty of cover from my warranty, recently a new PCCB disc (£4.5k), starter motor, front speaker, amplifier, and I've previously had RMS and FMS done under warranty also (which gave me a free labour clutch change!). IF I was running a non-mezger then it's a no brainer to keep the warranty till the car is 10 years old, the £7k or so spent in the 7 years of extended cover isn't actually bad value when compared to other marques - and even if you don't need a new engine or gearbox you will have some components fail in 10 years of ownership. Even if you get benefit from half the cost of the warranty (say £3.5k) then the other £3.5k is your "catastrophy" fund. As all insurance goes, 9/10 people probably wont need a new engine - but the one that does gets subsidised by the others who shared the risk. If you like to pool your risk with others and feel it's good value then extend it. After over a decade in the insurance business, I renew and always will do until mine is 10 years old.
Fair points Simma, but what if OPC/Porsche refuse your 'new engine' claim due to spurious rev range readngs??I would grudgingly pay the warranty IF i believed they wouldn't try and wriggle out of honouring it when the time came! It's nothing more than an insurance policy.
Worth a read:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Yeah I think you're probably right there Cmoose. Some of the rules do appear to lack any application of common sense!
I prefer the Indy route as the service and quality are so much more dependable than the OPC network - where, if you're unlucky, you can not only be on the end of poor workmanship but also have your trousers pulled down (£££) for the pleasure!!
I prefer the Indy route as the service and quality are so much more dependable than the OPC network - where, if you're unlucky, you can not only be on the end of poor workmanship but also have your trousers pulled down (£££) for the pleasure!!
hartech said:
We are now hearing about some Gen 2 engines soring bores (I would say about a year later than the same period compared to the plastic coated pistons introduced for the 996's and when we first heard about them failing).
This, as a perspective 997.2 buyer is alarming news. Could you elaborate for us on exactly how many 997.2 engines you have actually seen with scored bores? are we talking tens? hundreds? It would be interesting to get some specific figures here.Edited by caymanbill on Tuesday 11th August 21:09
Magic919 said:
I wouldn't worry about it. When mine went a couple of years ago I couldn't find another confirmed instance. It's nowhere near as extensive as the other engine woes Porsche have.
And yet, the guy got an example of one instance within 6 minutes of posting!But yes, it surely must be pretty rare......
Beknown said:
Yet another £700+ warranty claim on my gen 2, third one since november.
Nothing major and most of that has been none consumable items, all replaced without hesitation.
For £660 a year its a f
king bargain, even if you do have to pay £100 for a brake fluid change.
Can I ask where you got your warranty? I just paid £2100 for a two year warranty on my 6 year old 911 gen2. Nothing major and most of that has been none consumable items, all replaced without hesitation.
For £660 a year its a f
king bargain, even if you do have to pay £100 for a brake fluid change.Bought my Gen 2 997 earlier this year from an indy which came with nine months OPC warranty. Runs out this month. Wasn't going to renew - but tempted after reading this thread. It will need another 111 point check - I bet the OPC's will always find something that will need replacing etc (means extra £££ for them). Mine is a 59 plate with 54K miles. Guess I will need to decide soon.
Andrew911 said:
Bought my Gen 2 997 earlier this year from an indy which came with nine months OPC warranty. Runs out this month. Wasn't going to renew - but tempted after reading this thread. It will need another 111 point check - I bet the OPC's will always find something that will need replacing etc (means extra £££ for them). Mine is a 59 plate with 54K miles. Guess I will need to decide soon.
I didn't think traders were allowed to pass on remaining OPC warranties. Or has it changed now? I always thought you had to buy privately to take over the remainder of an OPC warranty or directly from an OPC.Magic919 said:
Kingcrow said:
Beknown said:
Yet another £700+ warranty claim on my gen 2, third one since november.
Nothing major and most of that has been none consumable items, all replaced without hesitation.
For £660 a year its a fking bargain, even if you do have to pay £100 for a brake fluid change.
Can I ask where you got your warranty? I just paid £2100 for a two year warranty on my 6 year old 911 gen2. Nothing major and most of that has been none consumable items, all replaced without hesitation.
For £660 a year its a f
king bargain, even if you do have to pay £100 for a brake fluid change.For what it is worth, I reckon that you would need to be mind bogglingly unlucky for the warranty to pay for itself over the first 9 years of ownership of a 997.2. You are essentially going to have to replace an engine (or possibly the gearbox if it is a PDK) to break even. Makes sense if you aren't planning to keep it for the duration and want the ownership costs to be a strictly known commodity, but otherwise I wouldn't extend personally. It won't help you with the terrible Moll batteries that you will have to keep fitting to maintain it either (which typically fail between 2 and 3 years and will set you back over twice the price of a superior alternative).
Edited by DiscoColin on Wednesday 2nd September 19:35
uktrailmonster said:
I didn't think traders were allowed to pass on remaining OPC warranties. Or has it changed now? I always thought you had to buy privately to take over the remainder of an OPC warranty or directly from an OPC.
Dealers can act as a broker between buyer and seller to allow transfer of the warranty - only if they buy a car into stock does it cease to become transferable. Quite a lot of pork going through dealers seems to be sold that way these days.I have just gone through the Warranty debate with myself. The potential bills for a failure with a turbo engine, PDK box, PTV, active engine mounts etc. really scare me. So much so that in the end I decided to go for the warranty extend.
My car was in for a Major, the 111 point check and an MOT. NOTHING outside the service needed doing, NOTHING.
No advisories on the MOT or the 111 point check, and nothing untoward came up during the service, no phone calls to authorise additional work. In the two years and counting I've had it, it's been like a Swiss chronometer.
I'm now questioning whether I needed the warranty after all...... (Gen2 BTW)
My car was in for a Major, the 111 point check and an MOT. NOTHING outside the service needed doing, NOTHING.
No advisories on the MOT or the 111 point check, and nothing untoward came up during the service, no phone calls to authorise additional work. In the two years and counting I've had it, it's been like a Swiss chronometer.
I'm now questioning whether I needed the warranty after all...... (Gen2 BTW)
FeelingLucky said:
I have just gone through the Warranty debate with myself. The potential bills for a failure with a turbo engine, PDK box, PTV, active engine mounts etc. really scare me. So much so that in the end I decided to go for the warranty extend.
My car was in for a Major, the 111 point check and an MOT. NOTHING outside the service needed doing, NOTHING.
No advisories on the MOT or the 111 point check, and nothing untoward came up during the service, no phone calls to authorise additional work. In the two years and counting I've had it, it's been like a Swiss chronometer.
I'm now questioning whether I needed the warranty after all...... (Gen2 BTW)
On my 4th Porsche (Gen 2 997). OPC warranty about to expire. Probably won't bother extending tbh. Two previous Porsches I owned as daily drives - 993 - which was 13 years old, 90K miles & a 11 year old 996 turbo. Hsd both for three years - both passed their MOT's with nothing apart from new tyres on the turbo. Both very reliable, no issues at all. My 997 is newer - 5.5 years old. As someone else said on this thread, you would have to be incredibly unlucky for the warranty to pay for itself.My car was in for a Major, the 111 point check and an MOT. NOTHING outside the service needed doing, NOTHING.
No advisories on the MOT or the 111 point check, and nothing untoward came up during the service, no phone calls to authorise additional work. In the two years and counting I've had it, it's been like a Swiss chronometer.
I'm now questioning whether I needed the warranty after all...... (Gen2 BTW)
DiscoColin said:
For what it is worth, I reckon that you would need to be mind bogglingly unlucky for the warranty to pay for itself over the first 9 years of ownership of a 997.2. You are essentially going to have to replace an engine (or possibly the gearbox if it is a PDK) to break even. Makes sense if you aren't planning to keep it for the duration and want the ownership costs to be a strictly known commodity, but otherwise I wouldn't extend personally. It won't help you with the terrible Moll batteries that you will have to keep fitting to maintain it either (which typically fail between 2 and 3 years and will set you back over twice the price of a superior alternative).
Everyone's experience is different. Ultimately it is an insurance product, so they have done the maths and to make money they should pay out a fair bit less than they take in (roughly 60% of premium shoud be paid in claims to make a small profit after allowing for costs, broker commissions etc) - so yes the truth is that on average punters won't claim as much as you put in over the 8 years. BUT - the point is: if you are comfortable pooling your risk with others, then IF you are unfortunate enough to suffer a major issue then you should have cover (if you have complied with the terms of the contract). The whole basis and point of ANY insurance policy. Want to take the risk yourself, then don't buy it!Edited by DiscoColin on Wednesday 2nd September 19:35
My personal experience is that every year I have renewed (bar 1 IIRC) I have had at least a medium priced item replaced which would have cost around £500-£1500 at OPC, along with some smaller items and adjustments. Last year I had a £5k item replaced, a premature failure of a PCCB disc.
Funny you should mention the terrible Moll battery, as I have successfully had one replaced under warranty! The battery was under 2 years old, and Porsche replaced it with no fuss. This was inter group as well (battery fitted in Dubai OPC, replaced under warranty by UK OPC).
The issue mentioned above that IMI faced when his engine became toast is more than just the warranty pulling out. Yes you need to make sure you comply with the terms and conditions of cover to claim under it, however annoying that is - it's part of the contract and you need to be aware of it and be happy with it. I have had warranty claims refused for wear items e.g. a coolent hose failed, not covered under warranty as per wording and I paid for it no problem.
The warranty isn't magic, it's a product designed for you to have security. In my opinion, it's one of the most comprehensive extended warranties available from any manufacturer that I've seen, for what I feel is reasonable cost. As I said above, years 3-6 you will likely not get back what you pay in, but years 7-10 are the key years and what I feel is great value for an ageing car which parts will go wrong!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is a key point for me. If you prefer not to use an OPC – then the cost of maintenance is going to be lower. The cost of parts and labor are going to be lower, factor this in to your decision. Also another point to consider when thinking about value - is private consumer rate for parts/labor at OPC the same when compared to warranty company price for parts/labor. E.g. if you need a new starter motor, lets say it costs £600 for the motor and £500 for fitting (made up prices, but used for example), the warranty company may only be charged £350 for the motor and £250 for fitting, as they are the largest customer of Porsche parts and largest user of OPC labor they have the most buying power so will get discounted rates.So, in this example, if the warranty costs £1000 – the private consumer will be £100 quids in compared to going it alone, but also retains the security of the warranty (remember no per claim payout limit to value of car IIRC under Porsche warranty). The warranty company get charged £600, so have hit their 60% loss ratio and make money also. Win win. A lot of people don’t like it when an insurance company make money, if you volunteer for your job then I salute you – but I’m not sure how that pays for your bills. It’s ok for all other companies and industries to make money, but not insurers? Should we be doing this for free because we love the general public so much? Excessive profits are one thing, but we operate in a highly competitive market and this is enough to maintain reasonable premium for good coverage and limit profits, if we don’t then someone else will replace us and take our business! Don’t forget the underwriter changed for the Porsche warranty insurance a few years ago – if better cover for less exists there is nothing to stop you finding it across all insurance lines. Insurers generally have good and bad years, but we have shareholders (most of you are probably shareholders if you have a pension) so we need to make a return also!
There is a lot of moaning esp on this board about the coverage of the warranty and examples of people not being paid out. But I never see any solutions from the moaners. Let’s take the over-revs as an example, now apart from the spurious readings of 1 that pop up here and there which is a separate issue, would you really want any car that has serious over-revs to be included and covered under the general warranty product? Don’t forget, all of us participating on this scheme are protecting each other as well as ourselves, so if cars that had high range over-revs were included within cover and claims paid out without quibble, who do you think would pay for it? Yes, we all would through higher premiums. This goes for wear and tear claims, consumables etc. The wording tries to cover participants by excluding cover from issues that are either self inflicted or should not be under the terms of the warranty as they are wear and tear items and will fail predominately determined by use. Have I had any problems with the warranty, on occasion yes – don’t forget we have to deal with humans and they make mistakes. Interpretation and objectivity play a part, sometimes it is unclear what causes an insured loss so a call needs to be made, sometimes your relationship with OPC makes a difference, there are some aspects of grey here.
Another aspect moaned about is OPC servicing and Porsche parts being used (no mods). I understand that in the past you could whack an exhaust on your 993 or 996 and the dealer would turn a blind eye. Probably less so these days but it still does happen. So as the insurer what would you insist on? To be able to offer warranty insurance (I’m not a warranty underwriter, but I understand the general principals) which is high volume low premium you need to maintain a high level of homogeneity. If everyone has the same product, maintained in the same way, you can (depending on the data you have) predict likely outcomes and develop patterns, and this can help you price cover. If non Porsche parts were allowed, then what’s to stop anyone going to euro car parts and fitting whatever cheap pattern parts they feel like? How can you control that? Discretion is ok if you have a manageable pool of clients, Porsche do not have this any more. On servicing, as good/bad as an OPC is, at least the warranty provider will have comfort that a specialised garage is servicing and repairing the car. If this was open, don’t think everyone would use JZM and Fearnsport, there would be nothing to stop someone using Dave around the corner to service and check over your car. Again no homogeneity and no control over quality. This creates a captive market for OPCs, but if you want the protection then you have to confirm to the conditions.
As we have it, I feel the product gives a good level of cover for a reasonable premium. If we want to start covering batteries that are 3 years old then maybe that will mean everyone paying £100 more a year. The balance they have at the moment is pretty good I’d say, it can never be perfect as everyone has an ideal definition of what they want to see covered, problem is they don’t want to pay more to get it!
Also the difference in Warranty premium between Boxster/Cayman and Cayenne is also telling, obv there is more to go wrong on a 2 ton 4x4 beast, hence they should pay more and contribute more.
Sorry for waffling on, hope this makes sense.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Absolutely. In my case I am willing to take the risk of not extending my OPC warranty. My previous 911's were much older 11-13 years old, daily drives, but only 5K miles/year. The cost of yearly service at a good indy & basic consumables inc tyres for me amounted to £1000 approx/year. My current Gen 2 997 is just over five years old & assuming I have a similar reliable car as my much older 911'S it doesn't really make sense for me personally to extend the warranty. Maybe I have been very lucky - with over nine years Porsche ownership across now four Porsche's I have only had to service them, replace tyres etc.
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