997 GT3 RS 4.0 vs 991 GT3 RS
Discussion
I have had my 991 GT3 RS for 48 hours by now. I have driven it 1000 miles and after the first 500 miles i started stretching its legs across Germany yesterday night. There was quite a lot of traffic so even if i was tempted to push it a bit harder it was impossible due to holiday traffic. Immediately before collecting the 991 GT3 RS i took my 997 GT3 RS 4.0 for a blast about 150 miles just to be able to have a fresh memory of what that car is all about. Here are my thoughts:
The 991 GT3 RS ("991") is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Stuff the 5 point harness below the seat, programme the Sat Nav and put the lever in "D" and off you go. I did so for the first 300 miles just to run in the car properly varying the revs occasionally. Across the border to Germany, pull the lever over to the left push the sports exhaust button and off you go on the un-restricted Autobahn - and hell brakes loose. The car is loud and accelerates like a bat out of hell and hammers in the gears as you accelerate towards 250 km/h - never exceeding 5500 rpm (im sure it gets a lot more violent above but this is a new car). This car is all about traction and aero, The way the front digs in at high speed is amazing. I have never experienced such level of front-end grip that this car produces in any other Porsche before. Off the chars. The gearbox and the shifting is instant and throws your neck back. You simply work it up and down the gearbox in race car like shifts. (I'll come to the manual / pdk discussion in a bit) but for this car the future is in PDK. Later the Autobahn is closed and there is a 100 km deviation along country lanes near Osnabrück. On the open country roads the gearbox and the four wheel steering plants this car around corners never felt before. On the Autobahn the four wheel steering "extends" the wheelbase and the car feels more planted. On the country roads it digs into every corner and spits it out with a vengeance. After 16 hours and 1000 miles I felt absolutely ok with no backache or headache. A testament to this car's ability to be a cruiser as well.
Compared to the 997 GT3 RS there is quite a difference. Initially the 997 feels smaller and more nimble. It is much louder inside. You sit deeper and the clutch is a beast. Initially you stall it because the light flywheel has no inertia to hold the revs. The gear change (even after 4000 miles) still feels stiff and you cannot just rip it from gear to gear. Where the 991 is docile to start with, the 997 is aggressive from the word "go". You would not be able to go a 1000 miles in true comfort. It is far more "honest" as a race derived car. But it is also "old school". There is no way you can drive this as fast as the 991. It requires much more skill. There is a reason why this is becoming such a sought after motorcar. It is quite obvious that every single part has been honed and optimised for the swan song of the 997 GT3. This is very much the end of an era car. The suspension in "normal" mode is still stiffer than in the 991 so on rough surfaces it dances more that the 991 which in normal mode is more compliant. In race mode they are both hard to the bone. The 997 is a single purpose race machine. The 991 has a much broader envelope of usage but with the question asked it delivers better than any other car i have driven.
I almost forgot to mention the wing. In the 991 you actually have some rearward vision as you look beneath the wing and you can see the cars behind you (which in France is quite handy). In the 997 the wing cuts your field of vision in two halves elegantly covering any car behind you which is a bit tricky when wanting to "test" its limits.
I have heard rumours that Porsche wants to build a 991 GT3 RS as a manual car (without the spoiler and less hard core). I think this would be going back in time. The 991 GT3 RS was constructed around the PDK gearbox in race programming because that is where the development is going. If people want a manual car go back to the cars that were constructed with that in mind and do not look for nostalgia in modern cars.
The 991 GT3 RS ("991") is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Stuff the 5 point harness below the seat, programme the Sat Nav and put the lever in "D" and off you go. I did so for the first 300 miles just to run in the car properly varying the revs occasionally. Across the border to Germany, pull the lever over to the left push the sports exhaust button and off you go on the un-restricted Autobahn - and hell brakes loose. The car is loud and accelerates like a bat out of hell and hammers in the gears as you accelerate towards 250 km/h - never exceeding 5500 rpm (im sure it gets a lot more violent above but this is a new car). This car is all about traction and aero, The way the front digs in at high speed is amazing. I have never experienced such level of front-end grip that this car produces in any other Porsche before. Off the chars. The gearbox and the shifting is instant and throws your neck back. You simply work it up and down the gearbox in race car like shifts. (I'll come to the manual / pdk discussion in a bit) but for this car the future is in PDK. Later the Autobahn is closed and there is a 100 km deviation along country lanes near Osnabrück. On the open country roads the gearbox and the four wheel steering plants this car around corners never felt before. On the Autobahn the four wheel steering "extends" the wheelbase and the car feels more planted. On the country roads it digs into every corner and spits it out with a vengeance. After 16 hours and 1000 miles I felt absolutely ok with no backache or headache. A testament to this car's ability to be a cruiser as well.
Compared to the 997 GT3 RS there is quite a difference. Initially the 997 feels smaller and more nimble. It is much louder inside. You sit deeper and the clutch is a beast. Initially you stall it because the light flywheel has no inertia to hold the revs. The gear change (even after 4000 miles) still feels stiff and you cannot just rip it from gear to gear. Where the 991 is docile to start with, the 997 is aggressive from the word "go". You would not be able to go a 1000 miles in true comfort. It is far more "honest" as a race derived car. But it is also "old school". There is no way you can drive this as fast as the 991. It requires much more skill. There is a reason why this is becoming such a sought after motorcar. It is quite obvious that every single part has been honed and optimised for the swan song of the 997 GT3. This is very much the end of an era car. The suspension in "normal" mode is still stiffer than in the 991 so on rough surfaces it dances more that the 991 which in normal mode is more compliant. In race mode they are both hard to the bone. The 997 is a single purpose race machine. The 991 has a much broader envelope of usage but with the question asked it delivers better than any other car i have driven.
I almost forgot to mention the wing. In the 991 you actually have some rearward vision as you look beneath the wing and you can see the cars behind you (which in France is quite handy). In the 997 the wing cuts your field of vision in two halves elegantly covering any car behind you which is a bit tricky when wanting to "test" its limits.
I have heard rumours that Porsche wants to build a 991 GT3 RS as a manual car (without the spoiler and less hard core). I think this would be going back in time. The 991 GT3 RS was constructed around the PDK gearbox in race programming because that is where the development is going. If people want a manual car go back to the cars that were constructed with that in mind and do not look for nostalgia in modern cars.
Edited by hornbaek on Saturday 22 August 19:08
I have been offered silly money for the 997 and being completely objective one should cash in on the 997 as the 991 covers all the areas and does docile as well. But a newer car will always be superior to the outgoing one but in this particular case you are just not comparing apples with pears. The 997 will become an iconic car and there are only 600 of them and with the arrival of the 991 I have started to understand why. I'm a greedy b
d and I'll keep both thx.
d and I'll keep both thx. Mermaid said:
Would manual have worked well on the 991?
I don't think it would work as well as the PDK-S - I haven't driven the RS but have a 991GT3 myself and the PDK-S works so well with this car. Everything happens so quick in the 991 - the rate at which the revs build up, the speed of turn-in, if you had to combine this with a manual and having to heel'n'toe on downshifts I feel the car would lose someo momentum and wouldn't feel the same.And I might add that I was very sceptical about the loss of a proper manual in a GT3 as my old 996 GT3 K400 was the polar opposite - but all I can say is drive one - they really are that good
And of course the RS will be that little bit better too
Nice write up, thanks. In my view, fitting a PDK gearbox to the GT3 has made it more accessible to more people, and also allowed it to be used more often. The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 clutch is rather heavy and whilst you don't notice it on a track or on open roads, it becomes very tiresome, very quickly, in traffic. I also think that by adopting a dual clutch gearbox Porsche have changed the nature of the GT3. As great as paddle shifts are, and they are amazing in a lot of modern cars now, they are not as involving as a manual gearbox. So if you want a great car you can use as a daily driver, or take on long journeys, the GT3 with PDK is a fantastic bit of kit. If you want a car you can take out on a Sunday morning and feel intoxicated by, the RS 4.0 doesn't have many competitors. I remember reading an article in Evo about a guy who owned an F40 and a McLaren 12C. He used the McLaren more often, but always got excited driving the F40 and would never sell it. So bottom line: if you can, own one car that does everything (PDK) and one for special occaions (manual). Of course you don't need to buy a GT3 RS to enjoy a manual box, a 968CS is still a great manual car and only £25k. However, I love the GT3 RS 4.0 and think it is the last of a breed. I do have to state, for the record, that I own one!
MAF911 said:
Nice write up, thanks. In my view, fitting a PDK gearbox to the GT3 has made it more accessible to more people, and also allowed it to be used more often. The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 clutch is rather heavy and whilst you don't notice it on a track or on open roads, it becomes very tiresome, very quickly, in traffic. I also think that by adopting a dual clutch gearbox Porsche have changed the nature of the GT3. As great as paddle shifts are, and they are amazing in a lot of modern cars now, they are not as involving as a manual gearbox. So if you want a great car you can use as a daily driver, or take on long journeys, the GT3 with PDK is a fantastic bit of kit. If you want a car you can take out on a Sunday morning and feel intoxicated by, the RS 4.0 doesn't have many competitors. I remember reading an article in Evo about a guy who owned an F40 and a McLaren 12C. He used the McLaren more often, but always got excited driving the F40 and would never sell it. So bottom line: if you can, own one car that does everything (PDK) and one for special occaions (manual). Of course you don't need to buy a GT3 RS to enjoy a manual box, a 968CS is still a great manual car and only £25k. However, I love the GT3 RS 4.0 and think it is the last of a breed. I do have to state, for the record, that I own one!
Nice write up
What the hell is the the point of making GT and RS models more "accessible" - they're not made in large enough quantities to need to appeal to many thousands and thousands of owners in a market...
They're built in small enough numbers to allow them to be focused on involvement and enjoyment. So it's a bit sad to see them being made more "comfortable". Really? Those of you who have a 991 RS on order, would you cancel your order if the car was too focused or too involving? Doubt it.
They're built in small enough numbers to allow them to be focused on involvement and enjoyment. So it's a bit sad to see them being made more "comfortable". Really? Those of you who have a 991 RS on order, would you cancel your order if the car was too focused or too involving? Doubt it.
Murcielago_Boy said:
What the hell is the the point of making GT and RS models more "accessible" - they're not made in large enough quantities to need to appeal to many thousands and thousands of owners in a market...
They're built in small enough numbers to allow them to be focused on involvement and enjoyment. So it's a bit sad to see them being made more "comfortable". Really? Those of you who have a 991 RS on order, would you cancel your order if the car was too focused or too involving? Doubt it.
The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 was limited to 600 units, the 991 GT3 RS is going to stop once they've made 2000, so Porsche want to sell more cars. Simple They're built in small enough numbers to allow them to be focused on involvement and enjoyment. So it's a bit sad to see them being made more "comfortable". Really? Those of you who have a 991 RS on order, would you cancel your order if the car was too focused or too involving? Doubt it.
Don't want to start any kind of scrap and I''d have a 991 RS in a heartbeat if I could get one at list, but reading all the reviews about bonkers grip, turn in, traction, super-planted front end, epic track weapon, pretty benign on the road etc etc, if this is the general direction these cars are going in and they are being lauded for it, it doesn't really matter that much if the next one is actually a turbo, does it? Rev limiter is already at 8,600 or so. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the arguments for n/a and prefer it myself but it seems that the other facets of the 991RS's remarkable talents make this less of an issue? All IMHO.
hornbaek said:
Hi Maf
I completely agree with you that the 4.0 is for the special occasion whilst the 991 GT3 RS can be used in a broader context. But what i discovered during my first drive is that this in no way makes the 991 less exiting as a drivers car - just different.
Great write up Chris. I felt the same with the 991GT3, can't compare with the previous generations. Still purely Porsche but totally different to anything that's gone before. Fantastic car, and I only sold as a car I was searching for came up suddenly. I completely agree with you that the 4.0 is for the special occasion whilst the 991 GT3 RS can be used in a broader context. But what i discovered during my first drive is that this in no way makes the 991 less exiting as a drivers car - just different.
Hope you enjoy.
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