Elise to 993

[rubystone]

stuttgart737 said:

IMHO an Elise is a more special car than a 911 - pound for pound. I have had 3 911s and an S2 Elise - I would not sell the Elise (ever) but have sold a 997s and a 996 Turbo. My current 911 is a 997 Turbo but if I had to choose between it and the Lotus, the Porsche would go. I would be very hesitant about selling a good value, raw driver's car for an overpriced, compromised version of a 911. On the other hand, if you sell the Elise for a 993 and then regret the swap, it's likely that the 993 will have appreciated more than it would cost to get back into another Lotus. First world problem....

All your 911s have been modern examples, from what you list in this post. The 993 is the last of the air-cooled, so still has more of that 911 DNA. I think that the OP would enjoy the change and would get as much pleasure out of a 993 than an Elise. Of course no 911 (964RS excepted perhaps) is going to be as raw as an Elise or handle as well, but I sense the OP isn't looking to replicate that.

Best sell the Elise first and then start looking. I personally wouldn't buy a Targa, but if you like the looks and don't want a cab, then buy what you like. But do have it inspected first. That private sale 993 Targa does look a little rough round the edges...

[Nobbles]

For the money of of a 993, keep the Elise and get a cayman for the everyday park outside the house car.

[nipod]

Company car, so not needed for commute.
Lots of good advice, thanks. I guess I need to drive some variants to find out what I want.
Going from an Elise which is very raw and thrilling, but not that practical, to finding something which still has the feel of a sports car but with not too much fluffyness, otherwise in comparison to the Elise it will just feel like any other modern drive.

I have driven a Z4 and it was just to boring, very practical, GT cruiser etc.. but no fun.
I'm looking for something that I can use more often and still has the thrill appeal. I don't mind a bit of fettling, so long as its not major engine work, so maybe a slightly older 993 would fit the bill. As mentioned, you are unlikely to loose money if you buy wisely.

Just out of interest the Elise is worth what I paid for her 13 years ago and hasn't cost much to look after in that time.

[Koln-RS]

ash73 said:

....and the driving position with offset pedals and close windscreen was awful.

All rhd aircooled 911s have a similar driving position - most love it.

[plumpchicken]

Orangecurry said:

That 993 has some kind of wood trim option, which might be up your street - or not. Hi-fi option and hardbacked sports-seat are nice, but the wheels have not been refurbed in many a year, the rear reflector seems to have been rubbed away, exhaust tips pointing in different directions - all suggest to me a slightly less than fastidious owner.

Discs look 'new', but you'd be looking at spending a few quid just on the above items - you could imagine there might be significant spend in what you can't see in the photos in order for you to get it to a state with which you would be happy.

And it's a tip. There - I've said it.

Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 3rd September 18:49

that's my Targa 993 you are criticising! thanks lol

[BertBert]

I actually found the targa-ness of my 993 really good. However I just found it a boring car to drive. Just a bit lumbering. I can't see it being more fun than an Elise in any way. More practical, easier to live with, but expensive to run and a bit dull.

You need to drive one and see. If you love it you'll probably need the help of man-maths to get a good one!

What sort of value is your elise?

Bert

[Orangecurry]

plumpchicken said:

Orangecurry said:

That 993 has some kind of wood trim option, which might be up your street - or not. Hi-fi option and hardbacked sports-seat are nice, but the wheels have not been refurbed in many a year, the rear reflector seems to have been rubbed away, exhaust tips pointing in different directions - all suggest to me a slightly less than fastidious owner.

Discs look 'new', but you'd be looking at spending a few quid just on the above items - you could imagine there might be significant spend in what you can't see in the photos in order for you to get it to a state with which you would be happy.

And it's a tip. There - I've said it.

Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 3rd September 18:49

that's my Targa 993 you are criticising! thanks lol

Then let me help you out.

1) get the wheels refurbed - it's something that is very noticeable, and sets the scene of the whole car. Nothing makes a car look better than refurbed wheels for the cost involved. And the insane prospective 993 owners know that it'll need to be done, so they'll knock you down by more that it'll cost you. 200-300 GBP.

Put in the advert they are OE 17" Cup2 wheels, with the better rear size/offset of 9J55. Tell your audience what tyres you've bought, as they are probably the 'correct' Conti N2.

2) list the work that has been done - this will allow prospective owners to budget for what has not been done.

3) as you have no photo of the driver's seat, everyone assumes it is toast. How much does a seat refurb cost? Get them both coloured/cleaned /treated/mended (probably the only leather in the car)

4) Is there any bubbling of the paint (rust) round either screen surround? Bottom corners go first. Lift up the rubber trim - all prospective owners will. If it is NOT bubbling, I would seriously consider a paint correction on the car. Iris looks stunning when corrected and protected, and with 'new' wheels the car will look *very* good.

Unless you know the panels have been painted and would look different shades if properly cleaned?

5) Engine bay photo - what have you got to hide?

I could go on...................

[Orangecurry]

6) list the option codes...... photograph the underbonnet sticker if it is still there.....

[plumpchicken]

thanks OC - all very helpful! And I wasn't fishing just amused my advert subject of discussion.

[Orangecurry]

No prob.

... and take some decent photos

[plumpchicken]

I thought the photos were pretty good! (but thanks again for the pointers)

[nipod]

I reckon its worth £14k+, been offered £12750 as a trade in against another Elise. Not many of these come up for sale and mind is very clean, low mileage, 2 owners from new.
I'm sure plenty will disagree on value, but I'm fairly confident on the value.

How reliable would a 993 once sorted? Would any owners have any concerns about driving to southern France for example, or due to age more of a weekend fun car?
I'm thinking engine/gearbox?
Brakes, exhaust, suspension would be a relatively straight forward fix.
Cosmetics, paint, interior etc.. you know what you have before buying, so easy decision on whether to take on a car with any defects or not.

[Mario149]

I did 10k miles round Europe in 3 months last summer in my 993. No probs at all, mechanically it ust needed a couple of driveshaft gators when we got home

[Wozy68]

nipod said:

I

How reliable would a 993 once sorted? Would any owners have any concerns about driving to southern France for example, or due to age more of a weekend fun car?
I'm thinking engine/gearbox?
Brakes, exhaust, suspension would be a relatively straight forward fix.
Cosmetics, paint, interior etc.. you know what you have before buying, so easy decision on whether to take on a car with any defects or not.

Two weeks after purchasing mine I was driving back within the day from Stuttgart to Evesham (that's 750 miles) and at one point was easily cruising at a near 160 on the autobahn ......... thats MPH not KPH . That trip was around 1,8k miles.

Three months later I drove off the ferry in Spain at Santander and headed for the south coast for an 11 day holiday north to south and back again with my wife, we covered 2k miles in temperatures ranging from 8 - 38 degrees C.

Last year I drove off the ferry at St Malo, headed south through France and drove around the Pyrenees for five days and then the Pictus de Europe before heading back to Santander for the ferry home. Total distance 2.5k miles racing around the mountains with two bikers on superbikes. The 993 took it all in its stride.

Not bad for a 21 year old car that's covered132k miles.

In 3,5 years I've covered 22k miles in her and she hasn't missed a beat.
Dodgy driving position? They are all like that. Boring? I've owned four earlier Porsche, three of which were aircooled, and IMHO the 993 is the pinnacle of the aircooled 911, but obviously that's just my opinion.

Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 7th September 20:08

[Orangecurry]

Apologies for thread hijack.

plumpchicken said:

I thought the photos were pretty good! (but thanks again for the pointers)

IMHO - all the photos are taken from too close.

Side view - really really too close - it makes the car bent like a banana.

Rear 3/4 just looks wrong.

Rear you have full glare off the roof, and the exhaust tips and poor-state rear reflector take centre-stage - not what you want your audience to be concentrating on.

Front 3/4 - all glare again from screen and bonnet.

Interior shot is ok, but you have too much gate and wall.

Wheel shot may be showing off new discs, but the eye is drawn to the corrosion and damage on the wheel.

Take it to some grass/park, or hilltop so the background is low-key or nothing, and take the photos standing further back. Take some photos from lower down. level with the door - they always look good.

If you can find somewhere with a high roof (like a petrol station, but NOT a petrol station!), that can remove all of the unwanted glare.

[nipod]

different view - at least the photos makes the car look honest. It is what it is. Nothing worse than going to look at a car which has been somewhat disguised in photos, only to find out once in front of the car is something else.

[plumpchicken]

Thanks both of you for interesting comments. Clearly I have a lot to learn posting an advert on PH. Again sorry for hijacking the thread. I would say about my 993 that I would definitely take it on a long drive overseas but only in the summer months and without the kids!

[BertBert]

nipod said:

I reckon its worth £14k+, been offered £12750 as a trade in against another Elise. Not many of these come up for sale and mind is very clean, low mileage, 2 owners from new.
I'm sure plenty will disagree on value, but I'm fairly confident on the value.

How reliable would a 993 once sorted? Would any owners have any concerns about driving to southern France for example, or due to age more of a weekend fun car?
I'm thinking engine/gearbox?
Brakes, exhaust, suspension would be a relatively straight forward fix.
Cosmetics, paint, interior etc.. you know what you have before buying, so easy decision on whether to take on a car with any defects or not.

I'd say very reliable once sorted especially if it is driven regularly. Mine went to the ring the day after I picked it up. I didn't have any issues that let me down, but they are old expensive cars that rust a lot! I remember mine fondly and commuted with it (this was 2 years ago), but I just found it a bit dull. So sadly, going for a bottom of the price range one will probably cost you a lot.

And whatever you do, DON'T buy a tip. Take quite a dynamically dull car and put an agricultural slushbox in. You might as well get an auto Rover 75!

Bert

[Geneve]

Very fond of the 993s - had two C2s, both bought new, and used as my dailies, with several trips across Europe - no issues.

Drove quite a few 993s, including the Turbo 'S', but interestingly, the two nicest 993s I've ever driven were both C4 Coupes. Although, a few laps with Nick Faure around a wet Castle Combe in an RS takes some beating

My fear for the OP would be the difficulty of finding a really good example for under £36k.

Agree that a Boxster/Cayman might be a safer bet.

[Orangecurry]

BertBert said:

I didn't have any issues that let me down, but they are old expensive cars that rust a lot!

No - they don't.

There are only two potential rust areas

1) around the screens, where a design-fault allows water to sit trapped in a groove (between screen and bodywork) beneath the outer-trim. You can see this quite easily, though not necessarily how extensive the rust is underneath.

2) the rear chassis-legs, where a support-plate has minimal paint protection beneath and yet forms a mud-trap. You can't see this area without taking some of the back of the car off.

Any other rust on a 993 would be due to accident damage and the galvanised coating being 'damaged'.

But do look along the side windows, as water can also sit here if the car has lived outside extensively, though it tends to be the black 'trim' that rusts rather than the bodywork.

Edited by Orangecurry on Tuesday 8th September 08:37