Harbingers of doom rejoice, classic car prices chat thread
Discussion
Right so those in the know are predicting interest rate rises soon, house price drops etc and shares, commodities are falling as paper money printing slows down. (dont really understand economics so ill leave it there).
What are the still undervalued cars that are safe to buy and which are set for a shoeing?
As an owner of 3 classics id say the Elise S1 £10k and ropey Frogeye £6k (parts costs rising fast) are safe, but the iffy Ferrari Mondial 3.2 cab £22k looks potentially dodgy. Im not selling so it doesnt matter I suppose.
To be controversial ill get me miserable coat on Ill kick off with:
over valued (o/v)
some 911s and Alvis
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/172027022629?clk_rv...
re undervalued (u/v)
70s and 80s everyman classics like a Calibre for £2k
S1 Landies £6k, MGC, TR7 £2k
What are the still undervalued cars that are safe to buy and which are set for a shoeing?
As an owner of 3 classics id say the Elise S1 £10k and ropey Frogeye £6k (parts costs rising fast) are safe, but the iffy Ferrari Mondial 3.2 cab £22k looks potentially dodgy. Im not selling so it doesnt matter I suppose.
To be controversial ill get me miserable coat on Ill kick off with:
over valued (o/v)
some 911s and Alvis
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/172027022629?clk_rv...
re undervalued (u/v)
70s and 80s everyman classics like a Calibre for £2k
S1 Landies £6k, MGC, TR7 £2k
That 911 is a Speedster, so very different from your bog standard cabriolet, though I totally agree that the standard 911's are overpriced too!
I agree on the Elise S1 and an half tempted to pick one up for under £10k (dealers are regularly putting them up for £16k already), as well as the Esprit for under £20k, got to go up at some point.
I agree on the Elise S1 and an half tempted to pick one up for under £10k (dealers are regularly putting them up for £16k already), as well as the Esprit for under £20k, got to go up at some point.
There is some kind of wierd formula factoring;
-desirability & aesthetics
-marque & heritage
-usability, reliability & praticality
-status & lifestyle statement
-rarity
-of-its-time-kitsch & charm
-drivability, handling and performance
I think "charm" should not be underestimated because why else would bubble cars be £15k
Anyhoo as someone firmly in the "save them, save them all" camp (like most on here probably), I hope classic car values stay robust because it encourages people to keep using them. All petrol heads should have at least one classic if circumstamces allow that. Those Alfa GTs in the other thread tick so many boxes.
-desirability & aesthetics
-marque & heritage
-usability, reliability & praticality
-status & lifestyle statement
-rarity
-of-its-time-kitsch & charm
-drivability, handling and performance
I think "charm" should not be underestimated because why else would bubble cars be £15k
Anyhoo as someone firmly in the "save them, save them all" camp (like most on here probably), I hope classic car values stay robust because it encourages people to keep using them. All petrol heads should have at least one classic if circumstamces allow that. Those Alfa GTs in the other thread tick so many boxes.
Interesting topic...and always and element of the unknown / gamble about it I guess but from a personal point of view of mine what are the thoughts about the following two specifically...
Porsche 928 (S4 Auto to be precise) - 40th anniversary in 2017
Aston Martin DB9 (early cars, 04 / 05 / 06 in the £35K bracket) - could this be affected positively or negatively by the launch of the DB11 (March / April 2016 I think?) in addition to the other factors mentioned by the OP
I'll be honest I haven't and don't bank on making money on cars but the thought of losing out on big (to me anyway) sums of cash due to timing re selling / purchasing is a factor hence the interest in any thoughts on the above.
Porsche 928 (S4 Auto to be precise) - 40th anniversary in 2017
Aston Martin DB9 (early cars, 04 / 05 / 06 in the £35K bracket) - could this be affected positively or negatively by the launch of the DB11 (March / April 2016 I think?) in addition to the other factors mentioned by the OP
I'll be honest I haven't and don't bank on making money on cars but the thought of losing out on big (to me anyway) sums of cash due to timing re selling / purchasing is a factor hence the interest in any thoughts on the above.
u/v
300 ZX.... iconic fast practical hatchback coupe and targa (some people like auto).
Nicked from the other thread, gotta be a winner.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
300 ZX.... iconic fast practical hatchback coupe and targa (some people like auto).
Nicked from the other thread, gotta be a winner.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
The biggest impact on the market this year will be the recent implementation of money controls by the Chinese govt. Overnight it has removed much of the new demand growth that was anticipated.
In addition, the LTV rates on classics has been being pulled back by the specialist lenders and really importantly, the number of lenders that will accept cars as collateral has declined over winter and rates gone up on those that remain.
There could be some real bargains to be had this year for real enthusiasts because there are catagorically going to be some distressed and forced sellers in the market and fewer buyers.
In addition, the LTV rates on classics has been being pulled back by the specialist lenders and really importantly, the number of lenders that will accept cars as collateral has declined over winter and rates gone up on those that remain.
There could be some real bargains to be had this year for real enthusiasts because there are catagorically going to be some distressed and forced sellers in the market and fewer buyers.
I think most people know by now that my interest is Jaguar based, but I can't get my head around not only asking prices but prices actually realised. I mean, one quarter of a million paid for an early E-type roadster a week or so back? I revise my insurance every year now, and this year it would seem that I have to add another £50,000 to its value, and as far as the XKSS is concerned, it is insured for about half the price the last one fetched at the Revival sale. I for one, will be a very happy bunny if values take a tumble, because I can reduce the number of padlocks on the garage, sleep at night and even dare drive the bloody things. Well, you know what I mean. Back in 1991 I refused £75,000 for the E-type, in 1992 her value had reduced by 2/3rds. This was written in the Daily Fail (OK!) in 2014, and compare what it says to my opening quotes:-
"'E-Type Jaguars, which have always held their price well even during the recession are now becoming almost unaffordable for many buyers.
'We are seeing prices rise from £30,000-£40,000 a few years ago soar to the £120,000 mark for prime mid-1960s examples.'
What goes up must come down, they say, just like gold and silver have done, and I hope a correction is due. But if it does come, look out for the concomitant gnashing of teeth, redundancies and bankruptcies in the support infrastructure, those magnificent emporiums with red carpets and £100+ per hour charges.
And Ben, in one respect you are very wrong. People just don't use their cars like they used to, don't take them out in the rain and are very precious about them because of the value. I see it every month at the meeting here. Grey skies mean half the attendance.
"'E-Type Jaguars, which have always held their price well even during the recession are now becoming almost unaffordable for many buyers.
'We are seeing prices rise from £30,000-£40,000 a few years ago soar to the £120,000 mark for prime mid-1960s examples.'
What goes up must come down, they say, just like gold and silver have done, and I hope a correction is due. But if it does come, look out for the concomitant gnashing of teeth, redundancies and bankruptcies in the support infrastructure, those magnificent emporiums with red carpets and £100+ per hour charges.
And Ben, in one respect you are very wrong. People just don't use their cars like they used to, don't take them out in the rain and are very precious about them because of the value. I see it every month at the meeting here. Grey skies mean half the attendance.
There do seem to be a good number of cars that just seem really expensive now for average examples.
The very best of anything will have a different price bracket but these are cars from collections with super low miles. You don't see these out battling the lights in the morning or even out for a blast on a dry Sunday.
I struggle with 25k+ for a solid Cooper S, or 50+ for a 964 or a 400 Ferrari. To me they just aren't worth that much though I might like one. I'd be very afraid of buying at the top of the market.
I wouldn't buy my 944 for what I'd want for it in today's market.
I saw a mini clubman estate for 11k the other day FFS.
However I'm not the market so my thoughts make bugger all difference!
It does seem to price the average person out of the market but someone must be buying them or we wouldn't be where we are.
The very best of anything will have a different price bracket but these are cars from collections with super low miles. You don't see these out battling the lights in the morning or even out for a blast on a dry Sunday.
I struggle with 25k+ for a solid Cooper S, or 50+ for a 964 or a 400 Ferrari. To me they just aren't worth that much though I might like one. I'd be very afraid of buying at the top of the market.
I wouldn't buy my 944 for what I'd want for it in today's market.
I saw a mini clubman estate for 11k the other day FFS.
However I'm not the market so my thoughts make bugger all difference!
It does seem to price the average person out of the market but someone must be buying them or we wouldn't be where we are.
Perhaps auctions give the best barometers of prices, they are also a bit random if you have/don't have competing bidders.
Some of the results here have me scratching my head on what is and isn't cheap/dear
http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/cca-december-2...
u/v merc £2k (after wheel change)
http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1990-mercedes-...
and o/v
....well at this auction nothing really...perhaps the unsold ones indicate a cooling of?
Some of the results here have me scratching my head on what is and isn't cheap/dear
http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/cca-december-2...
u/v merc £2k (after wheel change)
http://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/1990-mercedes-...
and o/v
....well at this auction nothing really...perhaps the unsold ones indicate a cooling of?
Overvalued ...1970's & up 911's...there is an unlimited supply FFS!
Special edition Ferraris of the last 10 years....another better, more special one is coming up right behind it.
Undervalued & on the up..... Escort RS1600i, Renault Clio V6 (take a look @ R5 Turbo 2.)
Best buy. Anything Knackered. Bit if straw & dust = Barn Find. Buy it, keep it, discover it again when you want to sell it!!
Avoid: Restoring a barn find. Lots of top dollar ones out there already that aren't selling.
Special edition Ferraris of the last 10 years....another better, more special one is coming up right behind it.
Undervalued & on the up..... Escort RS1600i, Renault Clio V6 (take a look @ R5 Turbo 2.)
Best buy. Anything Knackered. Bit if straw & dust = Barn Find. Buy it, keep it, discover it again when you want to sell it!!
Avoid: Restoring a barn find. Lots of top dollar ones out there already that aren't selling.
My mate has been restoring classic Minis to a very high standard because they fetch such good money.
He has one which interests me as I owned one of them in my youth, a 1963 Mini Cooper S 1071cc.
Problem is it's a replica and I simply do not know how to value it.
It's fully restored with new interior trims, rebuilt shell, rebuilt 1071 engine and gearbox and looks fantastic, Cooper S in every way apart from the log book which simply says Mini.
Genuine 1071 S in this condition would be around 40K, but whats a replica worth? and is it a good investment?
He has one which interests me as I owned one of them in my youth, a 1963 Mini Cooper S 1071cc.
Problem is it's a replica and I simply do not know how to value it.
It's fully restored with new interior trims, rebuilt shell, rebuilt 1071 engine and gearbox and looks fantastic, Cooper S in every way apart from the log book which simply says Mini.
Genuine 1071 S in this condition would be around 40K, but whats a replica worth? and is it a good investment?
Im only a young pup compared to most on here,But i still know that barely a couple of years ago a reasonable 964 was 13k and a testarossa maybe 50k some of these reasonably high volume cars (the 964) have shot up by around 400% some more , The sentiment around a year ago was that this bubble would be a different kettle of fish to the 90's bubble due to ''new'' demand from the BRICS, Well that seems to have gone out of the window...
Personally mate i think anyone who buys a classic in a market this inflated and crackers is playing with fire, Id keep your money and wait it out a few years, I fancy a classic mini myself along with an e39 m5 and other bits.. but i guess im playing the long game.
Kind regards.
Personally mate i think anyone who buys a classic in a market this inflated and crackers is playing with fire, Id keep your money and wait it out a few years, I fancy a classic mini myself along with an e39 m5 and other bits.. but i guess im playing the long game.
Kind regards.
I bought a replica to live the dream and have fun with no thought of the financial side. In fact I really hesitated at paying what was to me a substantial sum for a replica. But if you want a pretty rare Cooper S to rally, want todrive it like you stole it and have serious fun, go for it. I don't regret one minute of my "investment". I mean, we don't buy our every day cars to make money.
BORN2bWILD said:
My mate has been restoring classic Minis to a very high standard because they fetch such good money.
He has one which interests me as I owned one of them in my youth, a 1963 Mini Cooper S 1071cc.
Problem is it's a replica and I simply do not know how to value it.
It's fully restored with new interior trims, rebuilt shell, rebuilt 1071 engine and gearbox and looks fantastic, Cooper S in every way apart from the log book which simply says Mini.
Genuine 1071 S in this condition would be around 40K, but whats a replica worth? and is it a good investment?
Personally I would value it much more closely to that of a restored boggo Mini. It may be more attractive to some people and could therefore command some premium but it is not an 'S'.He has one which interests me as I owned one of them in my youth, a 1963 Mini Cooper S 1071cc.
Problem is it's a replica and I simply do not know how to value it.
It's fully restored with new interior trims, rebuilt shell, rebuilt 1071 engine and gearbox and looks fantastic, Cooper S in every way apart from the log book which simply says Mini.
Genuine 1071 S in this condition would be around 40K, but whats a replica worth? and is it a good investment?
T70RPM said:
Overvalued ...1970's & up 911's...there is an unlimited supply FFS!
Special edition Ferraris of the last 10 years....another better, more special one is coming up right behind it.
Undervalued & on the up..... Escort RS1600i, Renault Clio V6 (take a look @ R5 Turbo 2.)
Best buy. Anything Knackered. Bit if straw & dust = Barn Find. Buy it, keep it, discover it again when you want to sell it!!
Avoid: Restoring a barn find. Lots of top dollar ones out there already that aren't selling.
1970s 911s unlimited supply? I wish. 20 RHD 2.2s extant when I last looked - but perhaps more now everything is being restored.Special edition Ferraris of the last 10 years....another better, more special one is coming up right behind it.
Undervalued & on the up..... Escort RS1600i, Renault Clio V6 (take a look @ R5 Turbo 2.)
Best buy. Anything Knackered. Bit if straw & dust = Barn Find. Buy it, keep it, discover it again when you want to sell it!!
Avoid: Restoring a barn find. Lots of top dollar ones out there already that aren't selling.
Just a heads up for Saturday, some lovely stuff, mostly affordable.
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auct...
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