Alternatives To The 991 Turbo S??
Discussion
W8PMC said:
Had an R35 (SVM 650r) & can't think of that, even the Nismo variant) coming close to offering what the 991 Turbo S would. Also i'd expect to be sectioned if i spent £115k on a Nissan. I'd hazard a guess the Porsche would fair no worse than the Nismo in the depreciation stakes, especially as the R36 will likely be announced later this year or early next.
Whilst I agree Porsche quality is much better than Nissan, I wouldn't agree that an R36 would hamper the value of the Nismo. The R35 was a very special achievement and the Nismo was the best variant. An announcement of the R36 if anything will confirm that there will not be any better variant other than the Nismo in the r35 edition sure making it a collectable car...
W8PMC said:
Also i'd expect to be sectioned if i spent £115k on a Nissan
Also the stock GTR looks great but WTF have they done to the Nismo with all the red go faster stripes? Looks absolutely awful. I would also try the standard Carrera S as others have mentioned. At least you can row your own gears and its 2wd - might be more fun on track? For me any turbo is too heavy for 6 track days a year. I'd be fearful that it may break.
Porsche are also releasing a 911 R - see if you can get one of those - unlikely but no harm asking.
leeGT2 said:
Whilst I agree Porsche quality is much better than Nissan, I wouldn't agree that an R36 would hamper the value of the Nismo. The R35 was a very special achievement and the Nismo was the best variant. An announcement of the R36 if anything will confirm that there will not be any better variant other than the Nismo in the r35 edition sure making it a collectable car...
But i'd be 99% confident the Nismo is only at best 10% better than the standard cars but for close to twice the money. All it's achieved is a pub chat victory in being a few seconds quicker round Nordschleife than it's Brother at half the price. Less than £5k in modifications to a standard R35 & the Nismo will be lacking. Had it been £10-15k more expensive then i may agree it's the premium model & may continue to command a collectable premium, but given i only know of 2 people in the UK that have shelled out for one, i really don't think the demand is there now or ever will be in the future. Great cars, but i'm afraid they're one trick ponies & i'd not even consider swapping my 'current' car for a Nismo unless i was allowed to immediately sell the Nismo & i'd then go & buy another M5 & strip out a GT-R as a track toy.9e 28 said:
Also the stock GTR looks great but WTF have they done to the Nismo with all the red go faster stripes? Looks absolutely awful. I would also try the standard Carrera S as others have mentioned. At least you can row your own gears and its 2wd - might be more fun on track? For me any turbo is too heavy for 6 track days a year. I'd be fearful that it may break.
Porsche are also releasing a 911 R - see if you can get one of those - unlikely but no harm asking.
W8PMC said:
9e 28 said:
Also the stock GTR looks great but WTF have they done to the Nismo with all the red go faster stripes? Looks absolutely awful. I would also try the standard Carrera S as others have mentioned. At least you can row your own gears and its 2wd - might be more fun on track? For me any turbo is too heavy for 6 track days a year. I'd be fearful that it may break.
Porsche are also releasing a 911 R - see if you can get one of those - unlikely but no harm asking.
W8PMC said:
But i'd be 99% confident the Nismo is only at best 10% better than the standard cars but for close to twice the money. All it's achieved is a pub chat victory in being a few seconds quicker round Nordschleife than it's Brother at half the price. Less than £5k in modifications to a standard R35 & the Nismo will be lacking. Had it been £10-15k more expensive then i may agree it's the premium model & may continue to command a collectable premium, but given i only know of 2 people in the UK that have shelled out for one, i really don't think the demand is there now or ever will be in the future. Great cars, but i'm afraid they're one trick ponies & i'd not even consider swapping my 'current' car for a Nismo unless i was allowed to immediately sell the Nismo & i'd then go & buy another M5 & strip out a GT-R as a track toy.
Isn't that the same with most cars though, including the Porsche range ?I mean;
991 Carrera 'S', £86k, 0-60 4.1s, 190mph
991 Turbo 'S', 146k, 0.60 2.9s, 205mph
Looking at the above, you pay 60k to get to 60mph just over a second quicker (when was the last time you were driving and thought "damn, if only this car had been a second quicker to 60" ???, and can theoretically do 15mph more at the top end, which is always useful on roads limited to 70 max.
Real world is that they are both very quick cars, and more than adequate for road use in the UK. That doesn't however stop people aspiring to own the top of the range model which is at a massive premium, for seemingly minimal difference. That said, the difference in performance at the top end does come at a cost (and there is obviously more to it than just 0-60 & top speed which effects price).
Ultimately, it comes down to picking the one you aspire to own, not which does this or that slightly quicker/better than the other. Its about opening the garage & wanting to go for a drive because its there, whether that be the local off licence, or down to the south of France. It's the way it make you feel, and those around you (ie which kid wouldn't rather be dropped off at school in a Porsche rather than a Mondeo), etc, etc. Its about everything at the supermarket thinking your a idiot because you can only fit 3 shopping bags in the boot (but in your head thats just an opportunity to go out again !!!). Its about knowing you work fricking hard, have to deal with sh!t, but this just makes it a bit more worthwhile ....
Hobo said:
Isn't that the same with most cars though, including the Porsche range ?
I mean;
991 Carrera 'S', £86k, 0-60 4.1s, 190mph
991 Turbo 'S', 146k, 0.60 2.9s, 205mph
Looking at the above, you pay 60k to get to 60mph just over a second quicker (when was the last time you were driving and thought "damn, if only this car had been a second quicker to 60" ???, and can theoretically do 15mph more at the top end, which is always useful on roads limited to 70 max.
Real world is that they are both very quick cars, and more than adequate for road use in the UK. That doesn't however stop people aspiring to own the top of the range model which is at a massive premium, for seemingly minimal difference. That said, the difference in performance at the top end does come at a cost (and there is obviously more to it than just 0-60 & top speed which effects price).
Ultimately, it comes down to picking the one you aspire to own, not which does this or that slightly quicker/better than the other. Its about opening the garage & wanting to go for a drive because its there, whether that be the local off licence, or down to the south of France. It's the way it make you feel, and those around you (ie which kid wouldn't rather be dropped off at school in a Porsche rather than a Mondeo), etc, etc. Its about everything at the supermarket thinking your a idiot because you can only fit 3 shopping bags in the boot (but in your head thats just an opportunity to go out again !!!). Its about knowing you work fricking hard, have to deal with sh!t, but this just makes it a bit more worthwhile ....
Couldn't agree more, however the performance delta albeit not looking massively different in the real world is night & day. The Turbo S is actually stated as doing 0-62 in 2.6 secs & the brochure says 2.9 but that's 0-62 not 60. This puts the Turbo S into hypercar territory as you could count on one hand the number of production cars that can do that, however a considerable number of cars cars hit 62 in just over 4 seconds & that now includes cars at little more than £30k new. Same applies to the top speed as very few can crack 200 but many can hit 190 so although as you say the gap on paper & even in the real world isn't great, the emotion behind what the Turbo S can do is much greater as doesn't feel normal (i assume).I mean;
991 Carrera 'S', £86k, 0-60 4.1s, 190mph
991 Turbo 'S', 146k, 0.60 2.9s, 205mph
Looking at the above, you pay 60k to get to 60mph just over a second quicker (when was the last time you were driving and thought "damn, if only this car had been a second quicker to 60" ???, and can theoretically do 15mph more at the top end, which is always useful on roads limited to 70 max.
Real world is that they are both very quick cars, and more than adequate for road use in the UK. That doesn't however stop people aspiring to own the top of the range model which is at a massive premium, for seemingly minimal difference. That said, the difference in performance at the top end does come at a cost (and there is obviously more to it than just 0-60 & top speed which effects price).
Ultimately, it comes down to picking the one you aspire to own, not which does this or that slightly quicker/better than the other. Its about opening the garage & wanting to go for a drive because its there, whether that be the local off licence, or down to the south of France. It's the way it make you feel, and those around you (ie which kid wouldn't rather be dropped off at school in a Porsche rather than a Mondeo), etc, etc. Its about everything at the supermarket thinking your a idiot because you can only fit 3 shopping bags in the boot (but in your head thats just an opportunity to go out again !!!). Its about knowing you work fricking hard, have to deal with sh!t, but this just makes it a bit more worthwhile ....
Also the Turbo S probably has well over £20k's worth of kit that you'd have to pay for on the Carrera S so at worst the performance advantage is probably costing more like £30k rather than £60k, which granted is still a very big number, but you can get Carrera S performance for £30-40k in other marques so the same points apply, albeit you'd not be in a Porsche.
9e 28 said:
I suppose it depends on driving style. Brakes as you're aware are the biggest issue in any heavy car. One or two trackdays a year no probs. 6 I'd say the brakes may be shot unless the new ceramics can take more of a hammering? Also driveshafts on 4wd cars are under tremendous stress especially on trick Cup type rubber. Will Porsche honour warranty payments if it does break on track?
That's a very good point & one i can't answer for the Turbo S. My M5 has consumed consumables, but not at an alarming rate. Been through 1 set of rear tyres, 1 1/2 sets of front tyres, 2 1/2 sets of rear pads, 1 set of front pads & my front discs will need replacing in the next few weeks, however that's having covered 22k miles & probably 10 track days of which 4 were at Spa. In a car that's lighter, more track focussed & with better brakes i'd not expect the Turbo S to be out performed by the F10 M5. I often track against my old R35 GT-R which is tuned to 650bhp & that's AWD but hasn't suffered any mechanical problems & i'd hope the 991 is a lot stronger & better manufactured than the R35.I run my M5 on MPSS & being honest the Cup 2's which i would fit for track duties are only marginally sticker than the MPSS as other than the outer 1/4 of the tread, they're the same tyre & same compound.
So you want a sports car with hyper car performance, which is also a luxury GT (so it can accommodate a child and is capable of a bit of continent crossing), and presumably, when you get there, can handle 5-6 track days a year ... seems a bit ambitious to me, even for 150k. But I see where you're coming from.
It seems to me you need to be in something front engined, which has a decent boot and compliant suspension, and some space for big leather seats. And automatic. That sounds to me like very much like an Aston Martin or a Bentley. Maybe a Ferrari California or Maserati at a push (I'd go with the Maser). I'm just not sure that you actually want to track those ... even their owners don't seem to want to track them, when they're on the track.
You don't do Japanese apparently, so no new Honda NSX. So, we're left with the Dodge Viper, or a Chevrolet Corvette, except that - crap - they don't have rear seats. Umm.
How about a BMW M4 GTS? With of course a bigger brake kit for the trackage. There you go!
It seems to me you need to be in something front engined, which has a decent boot and compliant suspension, and some space for big leather seats. And automatic. That sounds to me like very much like an Aston Martin or a Bentley. Maybe a Ferrari California or Maserati at a push (I'd go with the Maser). I'm just not sure that you actually want to track those ... even their owners don't seem to want to track them, when they're on the track.
You don't do Japanese apparently, so no new Honda NSX. So, we're left with the Dodge Viper, or a Chevrolet Corvette, except that - crap - they don't have rear seats. Umm.
How about a BMW M4 GTS? With of course a bigger brake kit for the trackage. There you go!
MaxA said:
So you want a sports car with hyper car performance, which is also a luxury GT (so it can accommodate a child and is capable of a bit of continent crossing), and presumably, when you get there, can handle 5-6 track days a year ... seems a bit ambitious to me, even for 150k. But I see where you're coming from.
It seems to me you need to be in something front engined, which has a decent boot and compliant suspension, and some space for big leather seats. And automatic. That sounds to me like very much like an Aston Martin or a Bentley. Maybe a Ferrari California or Maserati at a push (I'd go with the Maser). I'm just not sure that you actually want to track those ... even their owners don't seem to want to track them, when they're on the track.
You don't do Japanese apparently, so no new Honda NSX. So, we're left with the Dodge Viper, or a Chevrolet Corvette, except that - crap - they don't have rear seats. Umm.
How about a BMW M4 GTS? With of course a bigger brake kit for the trackage. There you go!
The big plus is it looks as though i'm already looking at the perfect car as others mentioned will have ranging from some to huge compromise so job potentially done as it appears the 991 Turbo/S can tick all the boxes with very little compromise, whereas alternatives will be very much lacking on track but perhaps have an edge in the luxury stakes. I'll take a look at the Maser, but reliability would be huge concern for me, as would i believe quite disturbing residuals & if my previous experience was anything to go by, not a particularly rapid vehicle, but i'll have a poke around so thanks.It seems to me you need to be in something front engined, which has a decent boot and compliant suspension, and some space for big leather seats. And automatic. That sounds to me like very much like an Aston Martin or a Bentley. Maybe a Ferrari California or Maserati at a push (I'd go with the Maser). I'm just not sure that you actually want to track those ... even their owners don't seem to want to track them, when they're on the track.
You don't do Japanese apparently, so no new Honda NSX. So, we're left with the Dodge Viper, or a Chevrolet Corvette, except that - crap - they don't have rear seats. Umm.
How about a BMW M4 GTS? With of course a bigger brake kit for the trackage. There you go!
tuffer said:
I glanced out of my kitchen window this morning as I was making a Coffee only to see a Turbo S in black go cruising past. The envy was strong even from a brief glimpse, they may not be to everyone's taste but I want one.
apropo:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wALArd2rvo
W8PMC said:
The big plus is it looks as though i'm already looking at the perfect car as others mentioned will have ranging from some to huge compromise so job potentially done as it appears the 991 Turbo/S can tick all the boxes with very little compromise, whereas alternatives will be very much lacking on track but perhaps have an edge in the luxury stakes. I'll take a look at the Maser, but reliability would be huge concern for me, as would i believe quite disturbing residuals & if my previous experience was anything to go by, not a particularly rapid vehicle, but i'll have a poke around so thanks.
Oh, I forgot the New Mercedes (non Benz) GTS - if sound was your measure of pleasure, then that would be The One. It went quite well around the Dubai 24hrs recently too: the Black Falcon GTS started in 98th, came 2nd. Good effort. And at the end of the day, perhaps the end of the thread, I'd go with the Turbo. It's just practical enough, it's ridiculously fast, and it's definitely trackable. And I'm a 911 fan, so the debate in my head is between a Turbo and a GT3, where I think the T is the better road car, and the 3 is the one I'd buy.
MaxA said:
Oh, I forgot the New Mercedes (non Benz) GTS - if sound was your measure of pleasure, then that would be The One. It went quite well around the Dubai 24hrs recently too: the Black Falcon GTS started in 98th, came 2nd. Good effort.
And at the end of the day, perhaps the end of the thread, I'd go with the Turbo. It's just practical enough, it's ridiculously fast, and it's definitely trackable. And I'm a 911 fan, so the debate in my head is between a Turbo and a GT3, where I think the T is the better road car, and the 3 is the one I'd buy.
If it wasn't a case of being mugged off by some speculator for £50k i'd agree with you & would be drawn to the GT3, but even the enthusiast in me isn't stupid enough to pay £150k for a used example of a £100k new car.And at the end of the day, perhaps the end of the thread, I'd go with the Turbo. It's just practical enough, it's ridiculously fast, and it's definitely trackable. And I'm a 911 fan, so the debate in my head is between a Turbo and a GT3, where I think the T is the better road car, and the 3 is the one I'd buy.
Never considered the GTS so good shout & will have a look, however the child in me still feels the Turbo S will top trump the GTS in everything other than sound.
W8PMC said:
MaxA said:
Oh, I forgot the New Mercedes (non Benz) GTS - if sound was your measure of pleasure, then that would be The One. It went quite well around the Dubai 24hrs recently too: the Black Falcon GTS started in 98th, came 2nd. Good effort.
And at the end of the day, perhaps the end of the thread, I'd go with the Turbo. It's just practical enough, it's ridiculously fast, and it's definitely trackable. And I'm a 911 fan, so the debate in my head is between a Turbo and a GT3, where I think the T is the better road car, and the 3 is the one I'd buy.
If it wasn't a case of being mugged off by some speculator for £50k i'd agree with you & would be drawn to the GT3, but even the enthusiast in me isn't stupid enough to pay £150k for a used example of a £100k new car.And at the end of the day, perhaps the end of the thread, I'd go with the Turbo. It's just practical enough, it's ridiculously fast, and it's definitely trackable. And I'm a 911 fan, so the debate in my head is between a Turbo and a GT3, where I think the T is the better road car, and the 3 is the one I'd buy.
Never considered the GTS so good shout & will have a look, however the child in me still feels the Turbo S will top trump the GTS in everything other than sound.
I think ultimately the 991 Turbo doesn't really have a direct rival.
Love the Maser but a bit old now and i have heard horror stories over reliability and also the attitude of dealers.
Respect the GTR but that's as far as it goes; they fit a stereotype and one, frankly, i couldn't be part of. Besides, as an all round car the 991T moves the game on way past the 997T, as well as the GTR.
Funnily enough, i have ordered a new RS6 Performance after initially being sold on the Turbo S. I just think they look fantastic and they are effortless. Ultimately, i thought it was silly to have a Turbo and GT3, so opted for the Audi for the additional practicality. No question the Turbo is a far, far better than the RS6 as a driver's car, but then it should be for £50k more.
Love the Maser but a bit old now and i have heard horror stories over reliability and also the attitude of dealers.
Respect the GTR but that's as far as it goes; they fit a stereotype and one, frankly, i couldn't be part of. Besides, as an all round car the 991T moves the game on way past the 997T, as well as the GTR.
Funnily enough, i have ordered a new RS6 Performance after initially being sold on the Turbo S. I just think they look fantastic and they are effortless. Ultimately, i thought it was silly to have a Turbo and GT3, so opted for the Audi for the additional practicality. No question the Turbo is a far, far better than the RS6 as a driver's car, but then it should be for £50k more.
Hobo said:
Isn't that the same with most cars though, including the Porsche range ?
I mean;
991 Carrera 'S', £86k, 0-60 4.1s, 190mph
991 Turbo 'S', 146k, 0.60 2.9s, 205mph
Looking at the above, you pay 60k to get to 60mph just over a second quicker (when was the last time you were driving and thought "damn, if only this car had been a second quicker to 60" ???, and can theoretically do 15mph more at the top end, which is always useful on roads limited to 70 max.
That's where stats are meaningless. Those figures may look similar but in actual driving it is a chasm! 0-60 isa rubbish benchamark as it's got a lot more to do with traction. A Turbo S will beat a P1 to 60 but does that mean it's quicker?!I mean;
991 Carrera 'S', £86k, 0-60 4.1s, 190mph
991 Turbo 'S', 146k, 0.60 2.9s, 205mph
Looking at the above, you pay 60k to get to 60mph just over a second quicker (when was the last time you were driving and thought "damn, if only this car had been a second quicker to 60" ???, and can theoretically do 15mph more at the top end, which is always useful on roads limited to 70 max.
The beauty of the Turbo is the in-gear and all around useable performance. It's not everyone's bag I appreciate but I LOVE the visceral, cheek sucking, kidney squeezing, ott bonkers performance of mine. When I drove a C4S is just felt completely lacking in that proper supercar pace. As for not being usable on the road I diagree, I think as a ROAD car it is perect
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