Is The Silly Season Coming To An End

Is The Silly Season Coming To An End

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Discussion

EGTE

996 posts

181 months

Thursday 4th February 2016
quotequote all
Mousem40 said:
Because they're incomparable.
Yes, being 1/4 of the cost for 95% of the car, you may be right; just not in the way you think.

Budflicker

3,799 posts

183 months

Thursday 4th February 2016
quotequote all
EGTE said:
Yes, being 1/4 of the cost for 95% of the car, you may be right; just not in the way you think.
It's an interesting point, a Carrera/s/4s is a great car and does hit the spot, however it's not a GT3 light.

I came to my 996 C4S straight from a 997 GT3 and i have in the past on my Diary of a 996 C4S owner thread discussed the merits of each car,

Budflicker said:
Slickhillsy said:
Congrats on the car sir and looks ace! I too had a GT3 (epic) and am now considering a C4S 997 (near as the same as yours) - can you give some feedback on the difference's and + / - on the 4wd over 2wd car? Be really interested to hear your thoughts...
Sorry I missed you're question, as I mentioned earlier it's not a GT3, it's quieter, slower and not as sharp, it's also more comfortable, the gearing makes more sense on the road, has four seats and I can go in multi-story car parks or over speed bumps without worrying about ripping the front splitter off.

Imagine the GT3 as a beautiful lap dancer who likes going out taking drugs and fking you silly all night with toys and porn.

Great fun, in fact Awesome, but not all the time, everyone stares at you when your out together, and eventually she's gonna wear you out and there's only certain places you could take her.

The C4S is more like the lovely girl who works in the city,is really pretty and smart, likes to have fun and go out for dinner and days out, is good in bed but not a crazy nymph but you'd spend a lot more time with her.

As regards the four wheel drive part it hardly notices, that's not to say I can't feel it when pushing on, and you can feel the extra weight in the steering if you are being really sensitive but it's not intrusive and for the most part it feels RWD.

I'm really pleased with it, it's a proper 911, looks good and drives good, in fact I've been using it so much more than I did the GT3.

Please don't take this as a GT3 knocking post though, it was awesome, the C4S is really good though and a bargain in comparison.
and they do both have their merits. I'm really pleased with my 996 and in fact don't miss the GT3 at allweepingweepingweepingweepingweeping, though the loss is of course made easier with that fact that the C4S effectively came with a cheque for £60 odd k on the passenger seat.

If I were a rich man (dadadadadabiggrin) then I would get another GT3 I'm sure, but they are top money at the moment (however next to a 964 RS they look a bargain) so who knows where they go from here???

Maybe in a couple of years the world economy will have gone tits up and a 996 GT3 will be £35k (sounds crazy but they were 4 years ago) or just a likely they will be as much as a 964 RS and all be £150k ( which if I don't buy one is where they most likely will be)confusedconfusedconfusedconfused

I do think that the forums are a little biased as owners talk up the car and price and people who want one but don't want to pay the current price try to talk them down, I blame Mr Demonbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin



Edited by Budflicker on Thursday 4th February 20:01

Steve Rance

5,435 posts

230 months

Friday 5th February 2016
quotequote all
roygarth said:
Which car(s) are you referring to?
996 and 997 GT3's in all iterations. The 996 being closer in its DNA to a cup that the 997.

Mousem40

1,667 posts

216 months

Friday 5th February 2016
quotequote all
EGTE said:
Mousem40 said:
Because they're incomparable.
Yes, being 1/4 of the cost for 95% of the car, you may be right; just not in the way you think.
I've owned both, it's not 95% of the car. Not at all.
It's not 4 times better though I'll grant you that.

jms1

224 posts

195 months

Saturday 6th February 2016
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SFO said:
I have had my 7.2 GT3 for over 3 years and around 17k miles.

I agree it's not fun in traffic and towns but it's great fun on road trips (2 Alpine trips, 1 trip to Brittany, and 1 Alpine trip coming) and A and B roads. True, you don't often get to wind it past 6k rpms, but when you do, it's sheer heaven.

For me, it's also about the feel of the car when you are in it and driving it. The compactness, the slight edginess, the rawness, the noise, the steering feel, the notchy gearshift and its changing personality as it warms up, the authentic (no contrived pops, bangs and farts of modern PSE systems) and varying (tone and pitch) engine and exhaust sounds throughout the rev range, the throttle response, the snug bucket seats, the athleticism .. there is nothing that comes close, let alone beats it, in its price range; if what you are looking is a driving experience and sensation that requires concentration, desire and engagement.
SFO I couldn't agree more with everything you've written. My circumstances are similar to yours regarding length of ownership and the miles covered in my 997.2 GT3. I've enjoyed mine on the occasional Ring and Spa trip plus trips to the Highlands and Wales. The odd UK track day and limit handling course too; however, the Sharkwerks bypass means that you have to choose trackdays carefully because of noise limits.

Even the feel on tickover is special with the Mezger chuntering and vibrating away whilst gently rocking the car. The sound when wound-up however is simply intoxicating and that top end rush towards the redline is something else - the 3.6 in my previous 997.1 seemed to chase harder, although it missed out on torque.

I also have to agree that the vanilla 997.1 is a fantastic car and appears to offer the best VFM at present. I never really wanted an RS for the road and it was always £30k too much. With the current market that differential is somewhat larger so I'm glad that I want for nothing more and am lucky to own such a great car.

I'm one of the owners that doesn't plan on selling and therefore am contributing to the dearth of cars on the market. Unfortunately with demand so high and supply so limited it won't surprise me if prices remain firm.

Edited by jms1 on Saturday 6th February 11:45


Edited by jms1 on Saturday 6th February 11:57

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Saturday 6th February 2016
quotequote all
jms1 said:
I'm one of the owners that doesn't plan on selling
mine is a keeper too .. there is nothing I can afford that would come close to replacing it

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Saturday 6th February 2016
quotequote all
I've also had a 997.2 C4S and a GT3 - you just can't compare them!

I see you can still spend £60k on a late 997 cooking model. The stretch to a well looked after, but well used 997.1 GT3 is 100% worth it. It's difficult to put into words, but there are a myriad of details that you savour from the GT3 experience.

I personally think they are worth snapping up right now. Just think, we're approaching £200k for a 997.2 GT3 RS and for less than half that you can get in a regular GT3. It's hardly like they are half the car...

Again, compare that to a 964 RS which is over £200k just because it's aircooled. It was a car for peanuts a few years back, for good reason; not particularly nice on the road and - when it comes down to it - is basically a C2 with hard springs compared to the ground-up job that is a modern GT3.

So yep, i do think by and large the market is stupidly inflated, but i can't see a Gen 1 or Gen 2 GT3 (non RS) being much cheaper than they are now. If my ducks were all in a row, i'd be jumping on either a Gen 1 at £75k or Gen 2 at £90k.

Seems someone has the best of both worlds like me and fitted rear seatbelts in this one!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Cheburator mk2

2,973 posts

198 months

Sunday 7th February 2016
quotequote all
Took mine out for a blat today. It's a K400 996.1 CS with another EUR45k worth of Mathey's catalogue thrown at it. Apparently it is worth a lot of money these days due to the low mileage and the illustrious first owner - I am the 3d. Anyways, yet again I find myself perusing the classifieds - what is there that can be a worthy substitute? A cooking 997 - no way! F430 - pah! A great, great car, (have driven it plenty a) but it doesn't tickle me the same way and it is no looker. A DB9 - my 928 GTS 5-spd is actually a better car. A Maserati Grand Turismo - hmmm, sounds good, looks good, but no go at all. Perhaps a Vanquish, but while better looking, a V12, and I can live with the SMG-like gearbox, will it make me feel like Rorhl? Probably not...

Hence, even though I have made like a bandit on the purchase price, I ain't selling. There is nothing out there to replace it. Don't feel the need to upgrade to a 997 either. In contrast to my everyday cars, I really do like my special cars with no aids and no toys, except climate control. My GT3 has that box ticked. Why should I sell?

m33ufo

4,959 posts

230 months

Sunday 7th February 2016
quotequote all
SFO said:
mine is a keeper too .. there is nothing I can afford that would come close to replacing it
What about what you perhaps can't afford - what would you consider changing it for?

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th February 2016
quotequote all
m33ufo said:
SFO said:
mine is a keeper too .. there is nothing I can afford that would come close to replacing it
What about what you perhaps can't afford - what would you consider changing it for?
458 Speciale Aperta

m33ufo

4,959 posts

230 months

Sunday 7th February 2016
quotequote all
SFO said:
458 Speciale Aperta
Sounds a bit gay when you're asked what car you've just bought? "a Ferrari 458 Speciale Aperta!"

I'd stick to the GT3 biggrin

Fl0pp3r

859 posts

202 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
SFO said:
I have had my 7.2 GT3 for over 3 years and around 17k miles.

I agree it's not fun in traffic and towns but it's great fun on road trips (2 Alpine trips, 1 trip to Brittany, and 1 Alpine trip coming) and A and B roads. True, you don't often get to wind it past 6k rpms, but when you do, it's sheer heaven.

For me, it's also about the feel of the car when you are in it and driving it. The compactness, the slight edginess, the rawness, the noise, the steering feel, the notchy gearshift and its changing personality as it warms up, the authentic (no contrived pops, bangs and farts of modern PSE systems) and varying (tone and pitch) engine and exhaust sounds throughout the rev range, the throttle response, the snug bucket seats, the athleticism .. there is nothing that comes close, let alone beats it, in its price range; if what you are looking is a driving experience and sensation that requires concentration, desire and engagement.
Nice summary there SFO!! thumbup



Edited by Fl0pp3r on Monday 8th February 00:44

Dr S

4,995 posts

225 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
hondansx said:
I've also had a 997.2 C4S and a GT3 - you just can't compare them!

I see you can still spend £60k on a late 997 cooking model. The stretch to a well looked after, but well used 997.1 GT3 is 100% worth it. It's difficult to put into words, but there are a myriad of details that you savour from the GT3 experience.

I personally think they are worth snapping up right now. Just think, we're approaching £200k for a 997.2 GT3 RS and for less than half that you can get in a regular GT3. It's hardly like they are half the car...

Again, compare that to a 964 RS which is over £200k just because it's aircooled. It was a car for peanuts a few years back, for good reason; not particularly nice on the road and - when it comes down to it - is basically a C2 with hard springs compared to the ground-up job that is a modern GT3.

So yep, i do think by and large the market is stupidly inflated, but i can't see a Gen 1 or Gen 2 GT3 (non RS) being much cheaper than they are now. If my ducks were all in a row, i'd be jumping on either a Gen 1 at £75k or Gen 2 at £90k.

Seems someone has the best of both worlds like me and fitted rear seatbelts in this one!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
+1. Owned a 7.1 C2S before going 7.2 GT3 (and RS) and loved it. However, the two cars are night and day. After the first few miles in the GT3 I never spent a second thinking back to the C2S.

The whole driving experience is just orders of magnitude sharper and direct. Starting from the chassis with miles better turn-in and precision, a steering that is beautifully talkative at any speed, a gear shift that is heavier but with its stronger mechanical feel connects you more with the car through to an engine that is razor sharp and an absolute aural delight across the entire rev range.

I use the stock GT3 as a daily driver as I am hooked and cannot go back to a standard car anymore. For the special moments there is still the RS

Adam Ansel

695 posts

105 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Flugplatz said:
Hmmmmm.... I would be selling right now not buying.

I think we are in the final moments of the madness and during 2016 these cars along with everything else that has gone mad will start to drop in price.
The industry Im in has always been a good indicator of whats coming and it feels identical to the 3rd quarter of 2008 right now.
Porche prices are in a bubble which will inevitably burst. Maybe not this year, but soon enough. We are in the middle of an overall asset price bubble; houses, fine wine, art, any old car, watches etc.
This was caused by QE throwing £375bn in the UK alone at the economy, with nowhere sensible for it to go. Also near zero interest rates for so long make borrowing cheap and saving less rewarding.
So only spend money on a "toy" car that you are happy to lose, because there is a good chance that you will.
The luxury goods manufacturers have really milked the bubble this time with countless limited editions thought up by their marketing departments.
But already there are early symptoms of bubble deflation. Property prices in central London have dropped sharply and Swiss watch sales are well down.
Any astute person will be moving from assets to cash right now. Blat around in a Golf GTI for a while and then buy your dream cars when the market bottoms out.

Mousem40

1,667 posts

216 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Adam Ansel said:
Porche prices are in a bubble which will inevitably burst. Maybe not this year, but soon enough. We are in the middle of an overall asset price bubble; houses, fine wine, art, any old car, watches etc.
This was caused by QE throwing £375bn in the UK alone at the economy, with nowhere sensible for it to go. Also near zero interest rates for so long make borrowing cheap and saving less rewarding.
So only spend money on a "toy" car that you are happy to lose, because there is a good chance that you will.
The luxury goods manufacturers have really milked the bubble this time with countless limited editions thought up by their marketing departments.
But already there are early symptoms of bubble deflation. Property prices in central London have dropped sharply and Swiss watch sales are well down.
Any astute person will be moving from assets to cash right now. Blat around in a Golf GTI for a while and then buy your dream cars when the market bottoms out.
Central London property has been dead specifically since the stamp duty changes killed it.Under £1m the market is flying with open days being reintroduced and above asking price offers being made.
I went to a Christies auction the other day and prices were very strong for picasso ceramics (the strongest I've seen in a few years)
A friend's 996.2GT3CS just sold after hanging around on the market for 5 months at around £75k.
Since January things have picked up. It's not all doom and gloom.

hunter 66

3,886 posts

219 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Yes ..... lots of cars on Dealer forecourts at Big prices ...... over 200 k for a 75 k mile 64 RS ......... and other dealers offering a 10 k price cut to the 125 k area for a better car !!!!!! game of cat and mouse
If you have the cash spend it and drive it hard

Fokker

3,460 posts

221 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
hunter 66 said:
Yes ..... lots of cars on Dealer forecourts at Big prices ...... over 200 k for a 75 k mile 64 RS ......... and other dealers offering a 10 k price cut to the 125 k area for a better car !!!!!! game of cat and mouse
If you have the cash spend it and drive it hard
Who's offering a 964 RS for 125k out of interest?


hunter 66

3,886 posts

219 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
Hi Fokker , it is 130K but has only 58K miles and has a 111 point Porsche inspection and FSH .... in my old cars colour Midnight Blue and is at GT CLassics ......... so very reputable

S1MMA

2,378 posts

218 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
SFO said:
458 Speciale Aperta
My next door neighbor has one. Quite special, lovely noise.

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Monday 8th February 2016
quotequote all
S1MMA said:
SFO said:
458 Speciale Aperta
My next door neighbor has one. Quite special, lovely noise.
So much want for this baby.