Is The Silly Season Coming To An End
Discussion
Sam All said:
S1MMA said:
SFO said:
458 Speciale Aperta
My next door neighbor has one. Quite special, lovely noise.Adam Ansel said:
Porche prices are in a bubble which will inevitably burst. Maybe not this year, but soon enough. We are in the middle of an overall asset price bubble; houses, fine wine, art, any old car, watches etc.
This was caused by QE throwing £375bn in the UK alone at the economy, with nowhere sensible for it to go. Also near zero interest rates for so long make borrowing cheap and saving less rewarding.
So only spend money on a "toy" car that you are happy to lose, because there is a good chance that you will.
The luxury goods manufacturers have really milked the bubble this time with countless limited editions thought up by their marketing departments.
But already there are early symptoms of bubble deflation. Property prices in central London have dropped sharply and Swiss watch sales are well down.
Any astute person will be moving from assets to cash right now. Blat around in a Golf GTI for a while and then buy your dream cars when the market bottoms out.
Well I really hope you're right!This was caused by QE throwing £375bn in the UK alone at the economy, with nowhere sensible for it to go. Also near zero interest rates for so long make borrowing cheap and saving less rewarding.
So only spend money on a "toy" car that you are happy to lose, because there is a good chance that you will.
The luxury goods manufacturers have really milked the bubble this time with countless limited editions thought up by their marketing departments.
But already there are early symptoms of bubble deflation. Property prices in central London have dropped sharply and Swiss watch sales are well down.
Any astute person will be moving from assets to cash right now. Blat around in a Golf GTI for a while and then buy your dream cars when the market bottoms out.
Nothing dramatic will happen for a long time. Interest rates aren't going to go up much in the next 10-15 years and beyond that I don't know. The top end car market has slowed for sure but to a more moderate rate of increase because it couldn't just keep inflating as it was before.
There could of course be an economic slow down but you won't fine prices of 997 gt3 RS's and the like halving in value.
That's just wishful thinking.
There could of course be an economic slow down but you won't fine prices of 997 gt3 RS's and the like halving in value.
That's just wishful thinking.
Yes agree if you want one just pay , but the dealers have a fantastic mark up policy as you could see £80 k more for a worse car . Maybe a better pile of carpet in the showroom ....
Got to love the free market
With the proliferation of New Classic Porsche / Supercar Dealers , they need stock and money ..... mark ups have to be big to fund the lifestyle..
Good times
Got to love the free market
With the proliferation of New Classic Porsche / Supercar Dealers , they need stock and money ..... mark ups have to be big to fund the lifestyle..
Good times
Edited by hunter 66 on Tuesday 9th February 08:32
The naysayers are assuming that because prices crashed in the early 1990's, that the same must happen at the end of this bull market. History tells us that they may or may not be right! The only thing for sure, and the key difference, is that interest rates were 15% last time around and are practically zero now (in fact negative in Japan!)
I think there is something else at play here...
a 964 and a 993 are very similar for example, one is an evolution of the other,
a 996 and a 997 are also similar, while a 991 is a revolution...
I honestly thought that the 991 Turbo S that I had for a very long test drive felt more like my M5 than a Porsche 911. A 991 GT3 of course is much rawer, but still, rear wheel steering, PTV, PASM, etc make it feel completely different to a 996/7 platform GT car. They will not make more of the latter cars, which manage to combine almost a classic feel, with modern day reliability, comfort and ergonomics. Show me something at £40k which does that? Thus I think prices from 2yrs ago will always be the absolute bottom...
Whether buying a 996/997.1 RS for £150k, when the normal car is 50% of that is another question. Personally I think the RS premium is not justified to that extend. But then again, I did not buy a mint 964RS for £22k back in 2003 thinking it was not worth the 100% premium over a C2... Doh!
a 964 and a 993 are very similar for example, one is an evolution of the other,
a 996 and a 997 are also similar, while a 991 is a revolution...
I honestly thought that the 991 Turbo S that I had for a very long test drive felt more like my M5 than a Porsche 911. A 991 GT3 of course is much rawer, but still, rear wheel steering, PTV, PASM, etc make it feel completely different to a 996/7 platform GT car. They will not make more of the latter cars, which manage to combine almost a classic feel, with modern day reliability, comfort and ergonomics. Show me something at £40k which does that? Thus I think prices from 2yrs ago will always be the absolute bottom...
Whether buying a 996/997.1 RS for £150k, when the normal car is 50% of that is another question. Personally I think the RS premium is not justified to that extend. But then again, I did not buy a mint 964RS for £22k back in 2003 thinking it was not worth the 100% premium over a C2... Doh!
Cheburator mk2 said:
I think there is something else at play here...
a 964 and a 993 are very similar for example, one is an evolution of the other,
a 996 and a 997 are also similar, while a 991 is a revolution...
I honestly thought that the 991 Turbo S that I had for a very long test drive felt more like my M5 than a Porsche 911. A 991 GT3 of course is much rawer, but still, rear wheel steering, PTV, PASM, etc make it feel completely different to a 996/7 platform GT car. They will not make more of the latter cars, which manage to combine almost a classic feel, with modern day reliability, comfort and ergonomics. Show me something at £40k which does that? Thus I think prices from 2yrs ago will always be the absolute bottom...
Whether buying a 996/997.1 RS for £150k, when the normal car is 50% of that is another question. Personally I think the RS premium is not justified to that extend. But then again, I did not buy a mint 964RS for £22k back in 2003 thinking it was not worth the 100% premium over a C2... Doh!
The smart money at the moment would go and buy a 997 or even better, a 996 GT3. They're not just a bargain comparatively speaking but about the best 911's there will possibly even be in terms of 911-ness that we all love...a 964 and a 993 are very similar for example, one is an evolution of the other,
a 996 and a 997 are also similar, while a 991 is a revolution...
I honestly thought that the 991 Turbo S that I had for a very long test drive felt more like my M5 than a Porsche 911. A 991 GT3 of course is much rawer, but still, rear wheel steering, PTV, PASM, etc make it feel completely different to a 996/7 platform GT car. They will not make more of the latter cars, which manage to combine almost a classic feel, with modern day reliability, comfort and ergonomics. Show me something at £40k which does that? Thus I think prices from 2yrs ago will always be the absolute bottom...
Whether buying a 996/997.1 RS for £150k, when the normal car is 50% of that is another question. Personally I think the RS premium is not justified to that extend. But then again, I did not buy a mint 964RS for £22k back in 2003 thinking it was not worth the 100% premium over a C2... Doh!
Even better, they'll cost you nothing to run and will gain in value. Its a no brainer, thats why I ve just bought a GT4... s
t, I've bought the wrong bloody car!Fokker said:
The smart money at the moment would go and buy a 997 or even better, a 996 GT3. They're not just a bargain comparatively speaking but about the best 911's there will possibly even be in terms of 911-ness that we all love...
Even better, they'll cost you nothing to run and will gain in value. Its a no brainer, thats why I ve just bought a GT4... st, I've bought the wrong bloody car!
Totally agree...and made the same 'mistake' Even better, they'll cost you nothing to run and will gain in value. Its a no brainer, thats why I ve just bought a GT4... s
t, I've bought the wrong bloody car!...but I'll be keeping the 996 GT3 as well...
)Mousem40 said:
EGTE said:
Mousem40 said:
Because they're incomparable.
Yes, being 1/4 of the cost for 95% of the car, you may be right; just not in the way you think.It's not 4 times better though I'll grant you that.
The vanilla Carrera is a better all round car (and incredible value for money to boot), but you just cannot put a price - any price - on that Mezger howl in the last thousand RPM of the rev range of a GT3.
It's a cataclysmically angry, apocalyptic shriek the like of which we'll never hear again in a road car; not even the 991.
As a track car, I think even the RS is just a bit too heavy and soft in standard guise, but for that engine alone, I cannot see GT3 values subsiding; especially as more and more seem to be meeting their maker.
996 GT3's are great value at the moment. I can see the Gen 1 being a 200k car before too long... After all it was the first GT3 and that must count for something.
They can be had from 65k in CS from at the moment. Not for long I think... Something like this http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
They can be had from 65k in CS from at the moment. Not for long I think... Something like this http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
LaSource said:
Fokker said:
The smart money at the moment would go and buy a 997 or even better, a 996 GT3. They're not just a bargain comparatively speaking but about the best 911's there will possibly even be in terms of 911-ness that we all love...
Even better, they'll cost you nothing to run and will gain in value. Its a no brainer, thats why I ve just bought a GT4... st, I've bought the wrong bloody car!
Totally agree...and made the same 'mistake' Even better, they'll cost you nothing to run and will gain in value. Its a no brainer, thats why I ve just bought a GT4... s
t, I've bought the wrong bloody car!...but I'll be keeping the 996 GT3 as well...
Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty s
tty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.Digga said:
I'd agree too.
Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty stty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.
The 996 Turbo is a great car and also a great investment. Happy days...Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty s
tty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.Fokker said:
Digga said:
I'd agree too.
Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty stty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.
The 996 Turbo is a great car and also a great investment. Happy days...Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty s
tty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.Cheburator mk2 said:
They will not make more of the latter cars, which manage to combine almost a classic feel, with modern day reliability, comfort and ergonomics. Show me something at £40k which does that? Thus I think prices from 2yrs ago will always be the absolute bottom...
If 'we' leave the marquee, then the new Civic Type R reminds me of the Integra DC5 i had in R button mode. Given that the first dc5 came out around 15 years ago, does that count?Fokker said:
Digga said:
I'd agree too.
Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty stty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.
The 996 Turbo is a great car and also a great investment. Happy days...Sadly, a GT3 was too much of a stretch for my budget - as in I could buy it but not really afford to properly run/service it - plus I really did want something I could use, if I wanted to, even when the weather was pretty s
tty, so my 'compromised' was a 996tt.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Been there done that, got the medal. Love them to bits, but to get an E36 M3 or an E46 M3 to be on the same level as a GT car you would need to throw serious money at it. I know that because my brother drives an E46 M3, which is only about 1 sec slower around Serres than a 997RS - getting there was neither easy not cheap. Also, Ex6 M3s rust for Britain, which is a pain. Last but not least - I am a serial BMW ///M owner/fan boy. I think the only ///M that I have not driven extensively/owned yet from the regular stuff is the M1. Still, nothing compares to a 911. Whereas my 928GTS 5-spd compares to a 850CSI or a E63 M6, or an E24 M635, my 996.1 GT3 CS compares to errr... a GT3... That should count for something as well...
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