Perceptions of reliabilty
Discussion
After compiling a list of repairs i've done to my 32 year old 212k Landrover, that i've had for 8 years now, made me think.
I perceive it to be a reliable vehicle, however someone else looking over what iv'e done, would consider it to be far from!
It might be due to the fact that it has never left me stranded (bar day 1 of ownership where the startermotor gave out) so in this respect it has been reliable.
The following is what i can remember that ive done:
Steering box, seat belts, track rod ends, brake pads, brake shoes, brake pipes, brake callipers, brake cylinders, brake discs, cv joints, wheel bearings, swivel seals, hub seals, other gaskets, alternator, rocker cover seal, exhaust, starter motor, battery, door top, rear door, alternator belt, power steering belt, heater matrix, thermostat, universal joints, prop shaft, fulcrum joint, a frame ball joint, all exterior lights, headlight switch, hazard light switch, fuse box modern fuse upgrade, welding to chassis, welding to bulkhead, handbrake shoes, handbrake expander, shock absorber bushes, door locks all round, 3 switch panel, swivel gaiter, numberplates, wiper spindle, fuel gauge, alpine window seal, windscreen seal, shock absorber bushes, shock absorber turrets, door mirrors, swivel pin, railko bush, wipers, oil change, fluid top ups, coolant flush, horn, tappet clearance, pedal rubbers, and there's probably more!
Extra work over the years:
A frame plus lights, light bar, paint, heated seat kit, seat refurb, headlining refurb and install, radio, cb radio, aerial, speakers, boost gauge, 2x battery gauge, temp gauge, rev counter, new wheels, snorkel, rear work light, electric fan, cubby box, split charge system, steering guard, breathers, front grille.
Work that needs to be done:
Rear diff pinion seal, transfer box leak, front to rear brake pipe, welding to chassis, welding to bulkhead, waxoyl, door alignment, fan wiring, total fluid change, timing belt, radiator.
All in 8 years and 10,000 miles.
Yet i consider it a reliable vehicle!
I know a some of it is routine maintenance, but to an awful lot of the population 'doing maintenance = unreliabiity, after all i get it MOTd once a year so its fine!'
All work done myself as a self taught hobby with the help of forums and youtube for assistance.
So, reliabe or not?
I perceive it to be a reliable vehicle, however someone else looking over what iv'e done, would consider it to be far from!
It might be due to the fact that it has never left me stranded (bar day 1 of ownership where the startermotor gave out) so in this respect it has been reliable.
The following is what i can remember that ive done:
Steering box, seat belts, track rod ends, brake pads, brake shoes, brake pipes, brake callipers, brake cylinders, brake discs, cv joints, wheel bearings, swivel seals, hub seals, other gaskets, alternator, rocker cover seal, exhaust, starter motor, battery, door top, rear door, alternator belt, power steering belt, heater matrix, thermostat, universal joints, prop shaft, fulcrum joint, a frame ball joint, all exterior lights, headlight switch, hazard light switch, fuse box modern fuse upgrade, welding to chassis, welding to bulkhead, handbrake shoes, handbrake expander, shock absorber bushes, door locks all round, 3 switch panel, swivel gaiter, numberplates, wiper spindle, fuel gauge, alpine window seal, windscreen seal, shock absorber bushes, shock absorber turrets, door mirrors, swivel pin, railko bush, wipers, oil change, fluid top ups, coolant flush, horn, tappet clearance, pedal rubbers, and there's probably more!
Extra work over the years:
A frame plus lights, light bar, paint, heated seat kit, seat refurb, headlining refurb and install, radio, cb radio, aerial, speakers, boost gauge, 2x battery gauge, temp gauge, rev counter, new wheels, snorkel, rear work light, electric fan, cubby box, split charge system, steering guard, breathers, front grille.
Work that needs to be done:
Rear diff pinion seal, transfer box leak, front to rear brake pipe, welding to chassis, welding to bulkhead, waxoyl, door alignment, fan wiring, total fluid change, timing belt, radiator.
All in 8 years and 10,000 miles.
Yet i consider it a reliable vehicle!
I know a some of it is routine maintenance, but to an awful lot of the population 'doing maintenance = unreliabiity, after all i get it MOTd once a year so its fine!'
All work done myself as a self taught hobby with the help of forums and youtube for assistance.
So, reliabe or not?
greendiff said:
After compiling a list of repairs i've done to my 32 year old 212k Landrover, that i've had for 8 years now, made me think.
I perceive it to be a reliable vehicle, however someone else looking over what iv'e done, would consider it to be far from!
It might be due to the fact that it has never left me stranded (bar day 1 of ownership where the startermotor gave out) so in this respect it has been reliable.
The following is what i can remember that ive done:
Yet i consider it a reliable vehicle!
I know a some of it is routine maintenance, but to an awful lot of the population 'doing maintenance = unreliabiity, after all i get it MOTd once a year so its fine!'
All work done myself as a self taught hobby with the help of forums and youtube for assistance.
So, reliabe or not?
Wear & tear and consumables I would say.I perceive it to be a reliable vehicle, however someone else looking over what iv'e done, would consider it to be far from!
It might be due to the fact that it has never left me stranded (bar day 1 of ownership where the startermotor gave out) so in this respect it has been reliable.
The following is what i can remember that ive done:
- Steering box
- seat belts
- track rod ends
- brake pads
- brake shoes
- brake pipes
- brake callipers
- brake cylinders
- brake discs
- cv joints
- wheel bearings
- swivel seals
- hub seals
- other gaskets
- alternator
- rocker cover seal
- exhaust
- starter motor
- battery
- door top
- rear door
- alternator belt
- power steering belt
- heater matrix
- thermostat
- universal joints
- prop shaft
- fulcrum joint
- a frame ball joint
- all exterior lights,
- headlight switch
- hazard light switch
- fuse box modern fuse upgrade
- welding to chassis
- welding to bulkhead
- handbrake shoes
- handbrake expander
- shock absorber bushes
- door locks all round
- 3 switch panel
- swivel gaiter
- numberplates,
- wiper spindle
- fuel gauge
- alpine window seal
- windscreen seal
- shock absorber bushes
- shock absorber turrets
- door mirrors
- swivel pin,
- railko bush
- wipers
- oil change
- fluid top ups
- coolant flush
- horn
- tappet clearance
- pedal rubbers, and there's probably more!
- A frame plus lights
- light bar
- paint
- heated seat kit
- seat refurb
- headlining refurb and install
- radio
- cb radio
- aerial
- speakers
- boost gauge
- 2x battery gauge
- temp gauge
- rev counter
- new wheels
- snorkel
- rear work light
- electric fan
- cubby box
- split charge system
- steering guard
- breathers
- front grille.
- Rear diff pinion seal
- transfer box leak
- front to rear brake pipe
- welding to chassis
- welding to bulkhead
- waxoyl
- door alignment
- fan wiring
- total fluid change
- timing belt
- radiator.
Yet i consider it a reliable vehicle!
I know a some of it is routine maintenance, but to an awful lot of the population 'doing maintenance = unreliabiity, after all i get it MOTd once a year so its fine!'
All work done myself as a self taught hobby with the help of forums and youtube for assistance.
So, reliabe or not?
I'm in denial too. I swear blind my 20 year old 525i is reliable, whilst spending four grand on refreshing it.
These old cars are reliable in the same way an AK47 is reliable... Okay, it jams occasionally and it doesn't work entirely consistently, but give me some tools and some light oil and it'll be reet in a jiffy...
Meanwhile the modern car functions faultlessly for nine years with minimal work, however eventually a nanochip on one of the PCBs deep in one of the many modules goes haywire and the whole car is potato until a new module can be procured at great expense and three weeks later installed by a computer programmer.
These old cars are reliable in the same way an AK47 is reliable... Okay, it jams occasionally and it doesn't work entirely consistently, but give me some tools and some light oil and it'll be reet in a jiffy...
Meanwhile the modern car functions faultlessly for nine years with minimal work, however eventually a nanochip on one of the PCBs deep in one of the many modules goes haywire and the whole car is potato until a new module can be procured at great expense and three weeks later installed by a computer programmer.
One person's unreliability is another person's necessary maintenance.
But fundamentally the key is in the word: "reliable".
Can you rely on it?
Rely on your car not springing surprises?
Which includes not leaving you stranded, and not having items fail that really should not have failed at that age/mileage.
I find my Landcruiser to be very reliable indeed.
I find my Porsche to be far less reliable, it has not left me stranded (yet, fingers tightly crossed) but there have been failures that really should not have occurred at its age and (particularly) mileage, and no, we are not talking wear and tear items or at least they should not have worn out yet.
But fundamentally the key is in the word: "reliable".
Can you rely on it?
Rely on your car not springing surprises?
Which includes not leaving you stranded, and not having items fail that really should not have failed at that age/mileage.
I find my Landcruiser to be very reliable indeed.
I find my Porsche to be far less reliable, it has not left me stranded (yet, fingers tightly crossed) but there have been failures that really should not have occurred at its age and (particularly) mileage, and no, we are not talking wear and tear items or at least they should not have worn out yet.
My old Griff, approaching 20 years young and >100k miles, was reliable... for the first three years of my ownership. Apart from a broken lower ball joint and several thousand pounds servicing/maintenance.
The forth year, not so much. Sold the fecker for a decent loss but glad to be rid.
I'd do it again though.
The forth year, not so much. Sold the fecker for a decent loss but glad to be rid.
I'd do it again though.
Isn't this why independent reliability surveys are carried out? You like the car, therefore you'll forgive it's shortcomings. The list you gave sounds way too long for eight years with a car, but then I've never owned a Land Rover and so don't have a soft spot for them.
You say you consider your car to be reliable, but would you describe it like that to someone that was asking about buying one for themselves? If you would then you're probably a bit delusional, but if you would admit to them it's not that reliable then I'm not sure there's anything wrong with bending the truth a bit for yourself.
You say you consider your car to be reliable, but would you describe it like that to someone that was asking about buying one for themselves? If you would then you're probably a bit delusional, but if you would admit to them it's not that reliable then I'm not sure there's anything wrong with bending the truth a bit for yourself.
leglessAlex said:
Isn't this why independent reliability surveys are carried out? You like the car, therefore you'll forgive it's shortcomings. The list you gave sounds way too long for eight years with a car, but then I've never owned a Land Rover and so don't have a soft spot for them.
You say you consider your car to be reliable, but would you describe it like that to someone that was asking about buying one for themselves? If you would then you're probably a bit delusional, but if you would admit to them it's not that reliable then I'm not sure there's anything wrong with bending the truth a bit for yourself.
Over 100,000 miles in 3 z18xe vauxhall's:You say you consider your car to be reliable, but would you describe it like that to someone that was asking about buying one for themselves? If you would then you're probably a bit delusional, but if you would admit to them it's not that reliable then I'm not sure there's anything wrong with bending the truth a bit for yourself.
1 x Breakdown, high oil pressure, oil everywhere in engine
1 x Thermostat
2 x MAFS
That's reliable, only left stranded once.
Some people think an advdisor on a MOT is unreliable
Jim the Sunderer said:
greendiff said:
After compiling a list of repairs i've done to my 32 year old 212k Landrover, that i've had for 8 years now, made me think.
I perceive it to be a reliable vehicle, however someone else looking over what iv'e done, would consider it to be far from!
It might be due to the fact that it has never left me stranded (bar day 1 of ownership where the startermotor gave out) so in this respect it has been reliable.
The following is what i can remember that ive done:
Yet i consider it a reliable vehicle!
I know a some of it is routine maintenance, but to an awful lot of the population 'doing maintenance = unreliabiity, after all i get it MOTd once a year so its fine!'
All work done myself as a self taught hobby with the help of forums and youtube for assistance.
So, reliabe or not?
Wear & tear and consumables I would say.I perceive it to be a reliable vehicle, however someone else looking over what iv'e done, would consider it to be far from!
It might be due to the fact that it has never left me stranded (bar day 1 of ownership where the startermotor gave out) so in this respect it has been reliable.
The following is what i can remember that ive done:
- Steering box
- seat belts
- track rod ends
- brake pads
- brake shoes
- brake pipes
- brake callipers
- brake cylinders
- brake discs
- cv joints
- wheel bearings
- swivel seals
- hub seals
- other gaskets
- alternator
- rocker cover seal
- exhaust
- starter motor
- battery
- door top
- rear door
- alternator belt
- power steering belt
- heater matrix
- thermostat
- universal joints
- prop shaft
- fulcrum joint
- a frame ball joint
- all exterior lights,
- headlight switch
- hazard light switch
- fuse box modern fuse upgrade
- welding to chassis
- welding to bulkhead
- handbrake shoes
- handbrake expander
- shock absorber bushes
- door locks all round
- 3 switch panel
- swivel gaiter
- numberplates,
- wiper spindle
- fuel gauge
- alpine window seal
- windscreen seal
- shock absorber bushes
- shock absorber turrets
- door mirrors
- swivel pin,
- railko bush
- wipers
- oil change
- fluid top ups
- coolant flush
- horn
- tappet clearance
- pedal rubbers, and there's probably more!
- A frame plus lights
- light bar
- paint
- heated seat kit
- seat refurb
- headlining refurb and install
- radio
- cb radio
- aerial
- speakers
- boost gauge
- 2x battery gauge
- temp gauge
- rev counter
- new wheels
- snorkel
- rear work light
- electric fan
- cubby box
- split charge system
- steering guard
- breathers
- front grille.
- Rear diff pinion seal
- transfer box leak
- front to rear brake pipe
- welding to chassis
- welding to bulkhead
- waxoyl
- door alignment
- fan wiring
- total fluid change
- timing belt
- radiator.
Yet i consider it a reliable vehicle!
I know a some of it is routine maintenance, but to an awful lot of the population 'doing maintenance = unreliabiity, after all i get it MOTd once a year so its fine!'
All work done myself as a self taught hobby with the help of forums and youtube for assistance.
So, reliabe or not?
tbox.Servicing, tyres and brakes aside it is still on the original exhaust. Other than that the only other repairs have been 2 front bulbs, one indicator bulb, a new battery and a new rear light cluster where someone reversed it into a tree branch.
996TT02 said:
One person's unreliability is another person's necessary maintenance.
But fundamentally the key is in the word: "reliable".
Can you rely on it?
Rely on your car not springing surprises?
Which includes not leaving you stranded, and not having items fail that really should not have failed at that age/mileage.
I find my Landcruiser to be very reliable indeed.
I find my Porsche to be far less reliable, it has not left me stranded (yet, fingers tightly crossed) but there have been failures that really should not have occurred at its age and (particularly) mileage, and no, we are not talking wear and tear items or at least they should not have worn out yet.
This.But fundamentally the key is in the word: "reliable".
Can you rely on it?
Rely on your car not springing surprises?
Which includes not leaving you stranded, and not having items fail that really should not have failed at that age/mileage.
I find my Landcruiser to be very reliable indeed.
I find my Porsche to be far less reliable, it has not left me stranded (yet, fingers tightly crossed) but there have been failures that really should not have occurred at its age and (particularly) mileage, and no, we are not talking wear and tear items or at least they should not have worn out yet.
"Unreliable" is used by people with a poor grasp of English.
A maintenance intensive car is not necessarily unreliable.
Does it start when you try to start it? Can it be driven when you try to drive it? If yes, it's reliable.
If it wears out in a typical or predictable way and needs replacement parts that doesn't make it unreliable - that makes it maintenance intensive.
TVRs and Land Rovers are maintenance intensive.
Noughties Mercedes which had complete electrical melt-downs whilst driving leaving their drivers unable to steer or stop were unreliable.
The previous owners probably thought that old landy was fantastically reliable because they didn't spend a penny on it. They might have even bragged on the internet that they only changed one bulb in ten years of use!
Unfortunately that has left the maintenance backlog to build up and you have paid the price.
Every the most reliable Japanese car car will start needing suspension/steering consumables etc after a while, whether the owner gets it done or leaves it creaking, groaning and wallowing down the road is another question.
Unfortunately that has left the maintenance backlog to build up and you have paid the price.
Every the most reliable Japanese car car will start needing suspension/steering consumables etc after a while, whether the owner gets it done or leaves it creaking, groaning and wallowing down the road is another question.
Contrasts between the perception of build quality and the reality are interesting. Most non car people still buy the old "nothing in life is as reliable as a VW" thing. Sure, if you don't mind failing coil packs, dual mass flywheels, electrical gremlins, etc, etc. Porsches with chocolate engines, bmw with their crappy hpfp, injectors, etc. etc. etc.
I think it just hurts more when the vehicle in question is a daily hack which you don't expect to have to spend out on; your weekend pride and joy gets a longer leash and problems are quickly forgotten after the next adventure. Having said that, I had a tvr tuscan which really was reliable - just needed a bulb during the year i owned it.
I think it just hurts more when the vehicle in question is a daily hack which you don't expect to have to spend out on; your weekend pride and joy gets a longer leash and problems are quickly forgotten after the next adventure. Having said that, I had a tvr tuscan which really was reliable - just needed a bulb during the year i owned it.
HustleRussell said:
Not reliable. Land Rover in general, vary between average and not at all reliable.
Is the above based on all your LR ownership. Your profile would indicate otherwise.Only reliability issue have had with any of our LR Group cars was with a flat battery on our Eloquent. That turned out to be a software issue corrected within an hour of discovering the flat battery.
My TVR's have been mixed.
My Wedge never let me down, which included driving between home in the UK and office in Switzerland.
My first Chimaera never let me down and maintenance was limited to service and wear parts.
The first bill on my first Tuscan was over £11k after only 34 miles. That was due to the dodgy dealer knowing the engine needed a rebuild.
After that it never let me down.
My second Chimaera never let me down but was very high maintenance.
My latest Tuscan has been great for nearly 7 years now. Regular trips to Germany and Spain.
Edited by so called on Saturday 6th February 09:35
HustleRussell said:
No, I'll probably have a Land Rover one day- but I won't be buying it for its reliability, which'll be average at best.
I've had more issues with audi's than Land Rovers. All I can say is that driving to Germany in the Evoque or our Disco 4 is more pleasurable than my MB CLS.
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