Porsche RS Market in Europe freefall
Discussion
Who knows?
But, surely the market is getting fatigue - not everything can keep going up and up.
Too many over-optimistic asking prices IMO - Common sense will eventually hit home.
I did speak to a specialist dealer last week, who blamed the weather. He said March/April are crucial months for market sentiment, but it's been so cold across Europe that the buyers are all hibernating.
But, surely the market is getting fatigue - not everything can keep going up and up.
Too many over-optimistic asking prices IMO - Common sense will eventually hit home.
I did speak to a specialist dealer last week, who blamed the weather. He said March/April are crucial months for market sentiment, but it's been so cold across Europe that the buyers are all hibernating.
mischaRS said:
A German Porsche dealer I know very well says the market in Germany/ Europe for RS models has totally collapsed
Essen was a literal disaster for many Dealers , with literally nothing sold
Allegedly !
It was a classic show - did you mean the 1973 2.7 Carrera RS or all the newer stuff? 2.7 RSs liked many must-have top classics (Gullwing etc) peaked in August 2014. Essen was a literal disaster for many Dealers , with literally nothing sold
Allegedly !
stevewak said:
It was a classic show - did you mean the 1973 2.7 Carrera RS or all the newer stuff? 2.7 RSs liked many must-have top classics (Gullwing etc) peaked in August 2014.
With respect, I think you are a year out on that. There's no doubt the market has slowed for those two in particular, but they were still fetching big numbers last summer.Most commentators (e.g. Flat6 issue of May 2016, Hagi index, Hagerty index and so forth) have been reporting softening/downward trends in the Porsche and more generally the classic car market.
All going according to plan, I will soon be able to trade in my wife's MINI for a 917K.
All going according to plan, I will soon be able to trade in my wife's MINI for a 917K.
Koln-RS said:
If it's "all RSs" then it's probably the whole market getting cold feet.
For info only, the following index figures are from www.k500.com and are based on 100s of auction results converted to $US and baselined to 100 in 1994. Not dealer or private sales, no 'not solds'. The slide set in in Jan 2015 with stuff not selling and only really superb cars getting the big bucks (condition is not reflected in these figures). Also on this basis the 300 SL Roadster peaked at 742.28 in mid-2014 and is now 588.96.
Edited to say that it's hardly 'free fall' based on this graph! Just that no one wants the bitzas and ex-club racing cars that dealers and auction houses punt out. They want road cars with al the original extras and in unusual colours. These are rare, the owners know it, and on the basis that the market is weaker aren't selling them.
Edited to say that it's hardly 'free fall' based on this graph! Just that no one wants the bitzas and ex-club racing cars that dealers and auction houses punt out. They want road cars with al the original extras and in unusual colours. These are rare, the owners know it, and on the basis that the market is weaker aren't selling them.
Edited by stevewak on Thursday 28th April 18:09
mischaRS said:
He explicitly said all RS, including the 991 which has left a lot of speculators with egg on their faces
Only PTS and Violet selling
It's a good thing Porsche have seen sense and are doing a good chunk of their bit to satisfy demand. They have produced a lot of 991RS and production is still continuing. There are likely over 3000 cars produced already so it might well end up with similar RS numbers as the gt3. Plus there's increasing suggestion of a gen 2 car (gen 2 gt3 mule already spotted testing at the ring I believe).Only PTS and Violet selling
isaldiri said:
It's a good thing Porsche have seen sense and are doing a good chunk of their bit to satisfy demand. They have produced a lot of 991RS and production is still continuing. There are likely over 3000 cars produced already so it might well end up with similar RS numbers as the gt3. Plus there's increasing suggestion of a gen 2 car (gen 2 gt3 mule already spotted testing at the ring I believe).
Wasn't the general view that was actually the new GT2?!
The general Porsche market peak was at the end of the first quarter of 2015, thereafter the market slowed until last Sept. The winter has been long, and whilst the very best, low miles collector/garage queen air cooled RS's were/are still selling over the Winter (and dealers asking increasingly larger prices for them accordingly) pretty much everything else struggled to sell from September '15 onwards.
I sold both my Mk1 996 GT3 Clubsport and my 964 RS in the first quarter of this year, but with hindsight I can see that was more by good luck than judgement. Had I brought them to the market in the first quarter of 2015, I suspect the rewards would have been higher in what was still a rapidly overheating marketplace.
My guess is the Porsche market will soften a bit further and then remain in the doldrums for the next year at least, this as prices fall to what purchasers consider "sensible/reasonable" asking prices.
I don't keep tabs on the Ferrari market, but I wonder if 430 Scud, 360 CS prices are stalling and about to soften ?
I sold both my Mk1 996 GT3 Clubsport and my 964 RS in the first quarter of this year, but with hindsight I can see that was more by good luck than judgement. Had I brought them to the market in the first quarter of 2015, I suspect the rewards would have been higher in what was still a rapidly overheating marketplace.
My guess is the Porsche market will soften a bit further and then remain in the doldrums for the next year at least, this as prices fall to what purchasers consider "sensible/reasonable" asking prices.
I don't keep tabs on the Ferrari market, but I wonder if 430 Scud, 360 CS prices are stalling and about to soften ?
hornbaek said:
Not exactly the graph of a "free fall". I was in Essen and there was plenty being sold but as somebody rightly said, deliveries are taking place so slowly the excess demand is being met.
I'd take Essen prices with a pinch of salt.There was a time when it was considered to be a good market barometer, but now there is a lot more scepticism about the validity of some of the pricing and sales.
If it's genuinely in free fall you'd expect dealers here to start bringing cheap LHD 991 RS's in to the UK. There are an awful lot of RS's on mobile.de for €250k and up. For what is a car meant for the track it shouldn't matter too much which side the steering wheel is on shouldn't matter too much.
Readjustment ? There were some very ordinary cars with aggressive price tags --- which made them chancers --- and yes these will be hard to sell at any more than very realistic prices.
Prices in freefall ? Hardly.
The best stuff will always bring good prices, and it still is.
Also underpinning the soon to be classic car prices (such as the early GT3's) --- is the increasing price of new cars.
It will be hard to spend and lose more money on a good secondhand GT3, than will be lost on a new car in normal times.
And again, they can't afford to build new cars the way they built these old ones ! A Mezger engine will always be special. Buyer beware anything less in the time frame '98 to 2008 --- 10 years in the wilderness !
Prices in freefall ? Hardly.
The best stuff will always bring good prices, and it still is.
Also underpinning the soon to be classic car prices (such as the early GT3's) --- is the increasing price of new cars.
It will be hard to spend and lose more money on a good secondhand GT3, than will be lost on a new car in normal times.
And again, they can't afford to build new cars the way they built these old ones ! A Mezger engine will always be special. Buyer beware anything less in the time frame '98 to 2008 --- 10 years in the wilderness !
What the rising market has done is bring a lot more "dealers" to the able as it is big bucks now! So all these new operators want to make quick cash , so suddenly a new dealer with "rare" RS/GT3 and big mark ups ....... the real buyers are just not that keen but the portfolio buyers have driven the market ..
Just a thought
Just a thought
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