Porsche RS Market in Europe freefall

[Koln-RS]

hunter 66 said:

What the rising market has done is bring a lot more "dealers" to the able as it is big bucks now! So all these new operators want to make quick cash , so suddenly a new dealer with "rare" RS/GT3 and big mark ups ....... the real buyers are just not that keen but the portfolio buyers have driven the market ..
Just a thought

I'd agree with that.

It's the dealers who have been stretching prices to ever incredulous levels, and buyers enthusiasm moved with the market to a point - 2015. I suspect buyers are now getting much wiser, much more cautious and much more selective, so it's inevitable that things will slow.

Many dealers will be anxious not to be over exposed to sharp falls, so they will be buying in less stock, and holding more on SOR. The greedy profiteering will be replaced by more realistic margins to maintain turnover, and prices will adjust down, which may knock a bit of confidence pushing the market further back.

I don't see a collapse, but certainly a correction. All in my non-expert armchair opinion btw

[Shazbat]

Hopefully all those greedy toerags like Hexagon, 4 star, Octane etc will soon f&*# off back into the hole from whence they came.

993 turbos (crap drive) now up to 180k ! Scummy old 15 year old 530i repmobiles a comedy 27k ! Can't be too many mugs left now who will get suckered into the illusion.

[noneedtolift]

Don't have a clue about the UK but in Germany cars have been marked up at exceptionally high prices but apart from the really rare stuff, hardly anything really sells at that price.

[Chris Stott]

I was in the US a couple of weeks ago and saw some of the Barret Jackson auction at Palm Beach. Most high of the end Porsche's failed to reach reserve... Couple of CGT's bid to c.$650k, but didn't sell.

US muscle car market was pretty strong though.

[boxsey]

German dealers calling it a freefall and Essen a disaster....can't say I'm feeling sorry for them.

[Robbo66]

Had some dealings with Hexagon, nearly....never again.

[gtsralph]

Geneve said:

I'd take Essen prices with a pinch of salt.

There was a time when it was considered to be a good market barometer, but now there is a lot more scepticism about the validity of some of the pricing and sales.

I think the Essen asked prices were trying to set buyer expectations. Some sold cars were probably not actual sales and Sunday afternoon saw heavy discounting on prices.

[Cheib]

If there genuinely is an issue with "RS prices" I'd imagine it's isolated to 991 GT3 RS's purely because of the amount hitting the market. Short term supply and demand...a bit like when 991 GT3's were £170k before coming down to £130k to £150k. RHD cars based on that will probably settle around £200k.

As others have said 997.2 GT3 RS's prices seem to be going up still, there are hardly any 997.2 GT3's on the market at all...one of the specialist dealers TOP 555 posted on Twitter yesterday they had sold a GT4 within 20 mins of advertising it and there are certainly a lot of posts on here about people missing cars because they haven't moved quickly enough. Not Porsche but the bloke I work with is interested in an MP4-12C Spyder...well he would be but there is literally only one car on the market at the moment.

[MDL111]

Cheib said:

If there genuinely is an issue with "RS prices" I'd imagine it's isolated to 991 GT3 RS's purely because of the amount hitting the market. Short term supply and demand...a bit like when 991 GT3's were £170k before coming down to £130k to £150k. RHD cars based on that will probably settle around £200k.

As others have said 997.2 GT3 RS's prices seem to be going up still, there are hardly any 997.2 GT3's on the market at all...one of the specialist dealers TOP 555 posted on Twitter yesterday they had sold a GT4 within 20 mins of advertising it and there are certainly a lot of posts on here about people missing cars because they haven't moved quickly enough. Not Porsche but the bloke I work with is interested in an MP4-12C Spyder...well he would be but there is literally only one car on the market at the moment.

isn't Top555 a UK dealer?

at least some of the GT4s in Germany seem to be sticking, as do the 997.2 GT3RSs and many other cars. 991 RS seem to be in abundance as well

[mollytherocker]

hunter 66 said:

What the rising market has done is bring a lot more "dealers" to the able as it is big bucks now! So all these new operators want to make quick cash , so suddenly a new dealer with "rare" RS/GT3 and big mark ups ....... the real buyers are just not that keen but the portfolio buyers have driven the market ..
Just a thought

There are indeed a load of new dealers trying to ride the train.

I wonder how many will survive?

[ChrisW.]

I was told at the 718 launch that the new Ford Mustang is doing very well in Germany ...

Maybe Porsche are starting to feel the heat at home ??

[RSVP911]

I know of 3 997.2 RS's that have sold for virtually ticket price - two never made it off the transporter , one was sold in less than a week . The prices represented about 20 % more than this time last year - one went for well in excess of £k200 (PTS , 14,000 miles) That feels pretty robust to me .

991 RS is a different - crazy initial prices , that will settle to something more sensible - but still with significant overs IMHO : supply and demand will dictate .

I think if the gen 2 GT3 / RS comes in manual it will make little difference to the prices of the 997

All IMHO as always

[Cheib]

mollytherocker said:

hunter 66 said:

What the rising market has done is bring a lot more "dealers" to the able as it is big bucks now! So all these new operators want to make quick cash , so suddenly a new dealer with "rare" RS/GT3 and big mark ups ....... the real buyers are just not that keen but the portfolio buyers have driven the market ..
Just a thought

There are indeed a load of new dealers trying to ride the train.

I wonder how many will survive?

It's incredible how many there are.....it's almost every week you come across another dealer you have never heard of with a showroom full of £100k plus cars

[ChrisW.]

I actually like the narrower body GT3's --- 997 GT3 Mk1 being the last ---

The way things are shaping up, Mezger also has a place in history ---

So there's two ticks in a box !

[mollytherocker]

ChrisW. said:

I actually like the narrower body GT3's --- 997 GT3 Mk1 being the last ---

The way things are shaping up, Mezger also has a place in history ---

So there's two ticks in a box !

Shhhhhhhhhh. For the love of god man!

[Shazbat]

RSVP911 said:

I know of 3 997.2 RS's that have sold for virtually ticket price - two never made it off the transporter , one was sold in less than a week . The prices represented about 20 % more than this time last year - one went for well in excess of £k200 (PTS , 14,000 miles) That feels pretty robust to me .

991 RS is a different - crazy initial prices , that will settle to something more sensible - but still with significant overs IMHO : supply and demand will dictate .

I think if the gen 2 GT3 / RS comes in manual it will make little difference to the prices of the 997

All IMHO as always

You own a 997 RS but want a 991 RS ?

[TomEP]

Froth has come out the market. Same as central London property. It was always going to happen, speculators both in cars and property get their fingers burnt at some point when they get the cycle wrong. the fundamentals in both markets remain, lack of stock and desirability will ultimately mean prices recover over time.

[Sam All]

ChrisW. said:

I actually like the narrower body GT3's --- 997 GT3 Mk1 being the last ---

The way things are shaping up, Mezger also has a place in history ---

So there's two ticks in a box !

Not the Gen 2 as the last narrow body?

Hydraulic steering a third tick

Conventional cockpit, not the new corporate type. A fourth

[ChrisW.]

Yes, confusing. The Gen1 S was wide body and I think all the Gen 2's were wide ?

But, the Gen 2 RS was still a vary special car also with it's extra power and maybe being dragged by the 4.0l unobtanium / unusable as Porsche intended ?

Does the 3.6 / 3.8 / 4.0 debate significantly change the equation in terms of engine feel ?

I recall the 4.0 been fantastically torquey --- really lovely ! (Bit like a turbo but without the lag !!)

[Slickhillsy]

Slippydiff said:

I don't keep tabs on the Ferrari market, but I wonder if 430 Scud, 360 CS prices are stalling and about to soften ?

Quite the opposite...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

Not the only example ...