Argument still raging about housing the outlaws!

Argument still raging about housing the outlaws!

Author
Discussion

schmokin1

Original Poster:

1,212 posts

211 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
Further to my original thread here...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The argument is still going on, with the goalposts being moved on us on a weekly basis, and the latest suggestion from the siblings in law being that we should compensate them for any uplift in value the barn has over the period, and accept a much reduced contribution to the costs of housing the inlaws due to the deflation of the costs over time (a net present value of our costs).

Anyway, long and the short of it is we are plumb out of patience and think the only way forward is to get a third party to look at the situation, and recommend a sensible level of contribution from the outlaws for us to house them.

So the question is, can anyone recommend a company or individual who would be able to take on the work? If no actual suggestions, what sort of organisations do this sort of work (solicitors, property consultants etc?).

Thanks for all the interesting contributions on the original thread, and here's hoping for some more equally valuable insights!

Cheers all
Schmokin1

Oi_Oi_Savaloy

2,313 posts

259 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
I think the only way to come a sensible and agreed decision is this: get 3 quotes for the costs of the barn conversion. Separately get 3 estates around (or call them) or do some research on rightmove (other portals are available.....) to work out what the open market rental value of that anticipated barn conversion would be.

So if it's going to be a 2 bed see what the equivalent would rent for etc etc.

You could also speak to a couple of holiday cottage rental companies and ask them what a season would bring in too.

Then speak to your mortgage provider or a self build finance company (if you need any help on that just let me know and I'll put some names forward) to show how much this is going to cost you on a monthly basis.

Then load it all into an excel sheet and then get the entire family around to try to demonstrate the factual reality of doing this compared to their presumptions.

Its the only way in my view. Thoughts?

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
What do your parents-in-law have to say about it?

It's their money after all to spend/distribute as they see fit. If i was them I'd be coming to an arrangement with you and telling the rest to keep their noses out.

the_lone_wolf

2,622 posts

185 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
You must have the patience of a saint, I think I'd have walked long before now...

I hope it gets sorted...

JQ

5,691 posts

178 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
Surely the answer is you pay for the works and the in-laws pay you a Market Rent, which then covers those costs.

I'm sure there are mediation services out there, but from an impartial position, the above seems to be the obvious solution.

Getragdogleg

8,736 posts

182 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
What do your in laws have to say about it ?


zedstar

1,735 posts

175 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
The mere fact that you are actually happy to house the outlaws AND you're actually trying to explore a fair solution to not annoy the siblings is something that they should be very grateful for.

I've seen many situations where one of the children are housing mum and dad and manage to squirrel away all their wealth and the only time the siblings find out is when theres no inheritance left to pay for the funeral.

selym

9,539 posts

170 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
This has probably been dealt with in the last thread (that I scan read, I confess!), but if the In-Laws put their money into your granny flat won't the siblings come a-knocking for their cut of the granny flat as part of their inheritance when the In-Laws shuffle off this mortal coil?

I've seen a very similar situation create massive divides within a family; as I always say, money and family do not mix!

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Even if everyone was getting along fine I'd be nervous about this turning sour sooner or later.

With this atmosphere of suspicion before you've got off the ground I think you're doomed to lose friends, money or both.

SunsetZed

2,235 posts

169 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Nothing to add except to the OP: You sir are a saint, I don't know if my in-laws are so fortunate laughlaughlaugh

Skyedriver

17,655 posts

281 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
Even if everyone was getting along fine I'd be nervous about this turning sour sooner or later.

With this atmosphere of suspicion before you've got off the ground I think you're doomed to lose friends, money or both.
Yup agree
Just don't do it
Buy a place for yourself and let them buy the place next door
If you go in to a deal with them and the rest of the family are already at your door looking for cash it just looks too dodgy.


NDA

21,479 posts

224 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Skyedriver said:
SpeckledJim said:
Even if everyone was getting along fine I'd be nervous about this turning sour sooner or later.

With this atmosphere of suspicion before you've got off the ground I think you're doomed to lose friends, money or both.
Yup agree
Just don't do it
Buy a place for yourself and let them buy the place next door
If you go in to a deal with them and the rest of the family are already at your door looking for cash it just looks too dodgy.
Agreed.

I bought my mother a house - it caused issues.

schmokin1

Original Poster:

1,212 posts

211 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Hi guys!
Bit late for the don't do it suggestions, we already bought the place.....!

The inlaws don't really understand the ins and outs of the financial side of things and are broadly butting out of any discussion, while making noises to the effect that we should give a bit to get a bit, IWSWIM. That, however is a bit difficult when we think we pitched the level of contribution the inlaws should make at the minimum level we felt comfortable with, so if we give a bit, we are effectively paying the siblings to look after the inlaws! Probably naively we weren't expecting to be 'bargained' down for every penny.

Anyway, long and the short of it is we are stil so far apart on what is the correct level of chipping in for the costs, that we need to get some sort of professional involved to make a call on what is reasonable, and it has to be a disinterested third party so the opinion carries a bit of gravitas....

So, any suggestions for either the sort of person/firm we should engage, or actual recommendations welcome. Hit man recommendations also welcome if the situation is not resolved in a few weeks!smile

Steve H

5,224 posts

194 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
It's never too late to change direction or make it clear that you are willing to.

If the figure you originally came up with is the minimum you considered acceptable then don't shift, don't ask for outside advice, don't negotiate with the siblings who are offering to do nowt to look after their parents and just seem to be interested in protecting their inheritances.


I'd be making it clear to the outlaws and their offspring that this is the only way you can afford to do it. Tell they are still welcome to look at other options elsewhere.


You'd need your other half onside to make this work but nothing else is going to, if the independant guy agreed with you the siblings would still say it's not right, if he says the contribution should be lower then you're forced to take less than you consider acceptable; neither one is going to give you any peace and quiet.


ETA. The "we don't understand the financial stuff" part is a copout, safe bet that they just don't want to have to make a decision against the other kids because of the grief they will get. Peacemaking at your expense.

Edited by Steve H on Saturday 30th April 07:55

the_lone_wolf

2,622 posts

185 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
The inlaws can't raise an interest in the finances behind housing them for the next couple of decades?

And the siblings appear to be more interested in their inheritance prospects than the well-being of their flesh and blood?

To quote Gorgeous George, "This, will get messy..."




That said, you appear set on this course and your attitude towards your family is admirable, why not get a local solicitor to have a look over the plan? Not only are they likely to have a basic understanding of the financial side but would also be well placed to then advise on the legal aspects and draw up any paperwork that you will need to get done anyway... smile

NDA

21,479 posts

224 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
schmokin1 said:
So, any suggestions for either the sort of person/firm we should engage, or actual recommendations welcome.
I use a reasonably well known law firm in London who would be very good at sorting this out - not cheap though. Happy to introduce you if you PM me.

DocJock

8,341 posts

239 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
I know you have said previously that you don't want to do it, but the only way to avoid a ststorm in the future is to fund the development yourselves and charge in-laws a reasonable rent.

You then avoid claims from siblings for %s of increases in value due to the development and inflationary increases in the value of that proportion of the property.

Rangeroverover

1,522 posts

110 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
I have converted an ex stable block at the back of my house for the outlaws, dining room, kitchen, study, downstairs loo, then upstairs (via stairlift) bedroom sitting room and bathroom. They also have their own courtyard garden and get to keep their car in one half of a double garage (mistake).

The conversion cost me about £40,000. I bought a house much bigger than I would have done normally. They sold me their house at a discount roughly equal to the overspend I had made. They now give me £200 per month for utilities etc.

There is a brother in law who has been sniping from day one. I offered him the oportunity for them to come and live with him....strangely not convenient for him.

Eventually the parents in law had a conversation with him along the lines of "how dare you, what makes you think we have to leave you anything, we might take a sudden liking for the RNLI and give it to them, whatever you get if by some chance there is money left over in is in our gift and not a matter of right".

That seemed to do it.

One other thing if you are making a "granny annexe" with the new stamp duty rules it has to be worth less than one third of the value of the main house; otherwise when you come to sell your buyer will pay an extra 3% stamp duty. So don't have it on a seperate deed, if you can, keep all utilities one one supply (you can put your own check meter in place if you want)Essentially you don't want to create two seperate households

DonkeyApple

54,919 posts

168 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
There is no solution.

If the in laws come and live with you then you will never see your wife's siblings again and they will make your life hell as you will never change their minds over the simple fact that you are stealing the inheritance that they have worked very hard for.

The best outcome is to not house your inlaws. Let them sell up and distribute part of their inheritance as planned but they go and live elsewhere.

If they come and live with you in any capacity then your wife's family will be against you all for the rest of your lives. Your children will not have cousins etc.

If it were me then I wouldn't think twice about trading the losing children for the parents though. As I said in the last thread, I would take my share of the pre death inheritance from the sale of their home and build the barn. I would then rent the barn out at a commercial rate. If the inlaws wanted to then rent it and negotiate a lower rent based on helping out with child care then fine but I'd keep it all commercial.

And at the end of the day you and your wife are clearly going to be doing all the palliative care as they get older, regardless of what their housing arrangements are and when they die your wife's siblings will all accuse you of stealing all their inheritance.

JQ

5,691 posts

178 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
DocJock said:
I know you have said previously that you don't want to do it, but the only way to avoid a ststorm in the future is to fund the development yourselves and charge in-laws a reasonable rent.

You then avoid claims from siblings for %s of increases in value due to the development and inflationary increases in the value of that proportion of the property.
This has been suggested several times in both threads and is the answer. OP, can you confirm why you're proceeding with getting the inlaws to fund the development when the above would solve all your problems?

I think any independent 3rd party would also think the above was the solution.