Potentially looking for a 996 Turbo

[9e 28]

Moosh said:

9e 28 said:

Moosh said:

Here's a list of some of the upgrades Kens doing

geometry
gearbox oil change
2 x Hybrid Turbos
Custom Intercoolers
Upgraded Fuel Injection System
Upgraded Diverter Valves and f-pipe
Free Flowing Panel Filter
New Turbo Oil Lines
Upgraded Throttle Body
Upgraded IPD Plenum
Fenderwell Intakes and Y-Pipe

This is what its got already

Stage 2 Europipe Exhaust
GT2 6 Pot Front Callipers
Alcon Discs
Pagid RS-29 Pads
Sachs 890nm Clutch
RSS Engine Mounts
X50 Pack
Aero Kit
X73 Sports Suspension

Which turbos? K16 hybrids or are you sticking with K24? Looks like 9e 30 package above as you're not upgrading rods, head, oil pump etc? Looking at your previous spec I reckon your 673bhp may have perhaps been a tad optimistic unless your K24 are hybrids. Go 9e 25 if you can. Spending on upgrades gradually you end up spending the same amount you would have doing it bit by bit. I've been in a 9e 25 - its rapid. About 750bhp

the old turbo's were K24 hybrids, Ken is going for K16 hybrids. The 673bhp was recorded on a rolling road but yes I think you may be right. Getting it done properly this time. Then will be saving my pennies for later in the year for engine rebuild to 3.8 or higher.

Good man. Make sure you ask for the full fat version K16/39 hybrids! Then later when you go to 3.8 you can go to 9e 20 and 850bhp! Green with envy

As a footnote I wouldn't go bigger than 3.8 as this is very reliable. You'll be running like 217mph at VMAX

https://www.facebook.com/vmax200/posts/13008671714...

[davek_964]

The Red Devil said:

As I said at the time and you failed to grasp and still do, the fact that you never noticed it had an end of life clutch
does not change the fact one iota that it did, what's hard about that for you to understand? At the very least I was
expecting you to contribute to the £1500 cost, instead I got a flat no. And this consistent denial of this makes me
upset, are you aware that distance selling regs also applies to private sales now? This rendered the car not fit for purpose
incurring that big bill and weeks of downtime on a car I had just bought. By refusing to accept this it makes me want to pursue
it if I am honest, and it would be a Black & White case, I have the bills for the parts, and the labour, and testimony
that the clutch was badly slipping from the workshop that fitted. And I have another 4 years to do so.
If I sold the same it would be a no question ask dig into my pocket, why should it be different with you?
I never even got an apology, just this wash of the hands of it.
If I had met in person with you, as opposed to buying it blind I would have spotted it straight away, however the
ongoing historical posts about the car I read into and the history assured me and to a certain extent I was buying
into that. The car had done 61k on its original clutch and had been mapped since C. 30K, of course it was
due and 9E had recommended at the time you mapped it that it was not coping too well and that when doing a stage
1 to uprate the clutch. These are all facts. All things considering I am surprised it lasted that long!

Edited by The Red Devil on Friday 3rd June 15:31

Edited by The Red Devil on Friday 3rd June 16:06

I spoke to Ken at the time, and your interpretation of what he told you was quite different from what he told me.

Is it unfortunate that you bought a car and then found the clutch slipped? Yes, and I'm sorry if that is the case. But, as I said at the time I did not slip for me and it did not slip for my mechanic who had it a couple of days before the sale. I also advised you of what I felt tipped it over the edge if it slipped when you got it.

As I'm sure you remember, you were concerned when you called about it that the clutch had not been done on a 60k car - which is why you then sent me a mail after you'd received the car saying it was an excellent car, pulled strongly and the clutch did NOT slip. A day or two later you mailed me to tell me it did slip, it was obvious and anybody would notice. When I told you my mechanic - and has worked on Ferraris for his entire working life would vouch that it didn't - you then told me that only somebody with your experience would know.

Based on all that, how am I to blame? I genuinely would not sell a car with a known fault. As I told you at the time - and as a dealer you know very well - the car was sold pretty cheap - £31,500 if I recall, for a full history 2 owner car. Even a year ago that was underpriced - I could very easily have put a clutch in and absorbed the cost in an increased sale price if I had known it had a problem, and would have done so.

I don't really understand the reason for bringing this up. You've had the car over a year now and have posted several times how much you like it. Why start attacking me on a public forum? Am I sorry you had unexpected expense? Yes. Did I knowingly sell a car with a fault - and did 9E tell me the clutch slipped when they mapped it? Absolutely not.

I have no intention of turning this thread into an argument about a car I sold a year ago, so I will leave it at that. I sold the car with one fault I knew about - the sunroof which I told you about. To my knowledge, the clutch did not ever slip in my ownership. I'm sorry if it needed replacing soon after you got it, but glad it's now become a car you seem happy with.

[The Red Devil]

9e 28 said:

The value of the car has everything to do with it buddy. Trust me you're on a losing wicket. A judge will look at you as a car dealer very differently to how he looks at a private seller. Have you been on Friday afternoon pub session or somethin? Lets not go O/T. You've NICKED a beautiful car. It needed a clutch. So what? I'm staggered you had the cheek to ask for a contribution actually. Always surprises me how when someones has a windfall and made decent profit they look at the negatives. I'd be over the moon in your shoes. Food for thought perhaps?

1. This was a private purchase, not a trade sale, the car is in my name.
2. I paid market value for it at the time.
3. No profit has been realized.
4. I don't drink.
5. Learn to spell check.
6. I got the response I was looking for, so we can bury it now, however that be nothing to do with your input.

[tjlees]

Wow and I thought I was a power junky!

I like it when people (specifically passengers on a serious romp) says 530+ is 'slow' having being previous driven in a 9e.

I don't think I've been in any situation on road when I've thought this twin turbo is short on power! I suppose on track you could call any standard twin turbo slow but usually the 1g cornering ability is the killer for me.

Anyway interesting read, for me any 'standard' turbo is a special, serious all weather weapon, and any 9e is variant very good icing on top of that - particularly in vmax200 when you only change into 6th at 200 :-) - Ken you are my hero.

[9e 28]

The Red Devil said:

9e 28 said:

The value of the car has everything to do with it buddy. Trust me you're on a losing wicket. A judge will look at you as a car dealer very differently to how he looks at a private seller. Have you been on Friday afternoon pub session or somethin? Lets not go O/T. You've NICKED a beautiful car. It needed a clutch. So what? I'm staggered you had the cheek to ask for a contribution actually. Always surprises me how when someones has a windfall and made decent profit they look at the negatives. I'd be over the moon in your shoes. Food for thought perhaps?

3. No profit has been realized.

5. Learn to spell check.

You're the man.....

[The Red Devil]

9e 28 said:

You're the man.....

Thank you. Yes I am a man, are we all not men on here..........

[The Red Devil]

davek_964 said:

I spoke to Ken at the time, and your interpretation of what he told you was quite different from what he told me.

Is it unfortunate that you bought a car and then found the clutch slipped? Yes, and I'm sorry if that is the case. But, as I said at the time I did not slip for me and it did not slip for my mechanic who had it a couple of days before the sale. I also advised you of what I felt tipped it over the edge if it slipped when you got it.

As I'm sure you remember, you were concerned when you called about it that the clutch had not been done on a 60k car - which is why you then sent me a mail after you'd received the car saying it was an excellent car, pulled strongly and the clutch did NOT slip. A day or two later you mailed me to tell me it did slip, it was obvious and anybody would notice. When I told you my mechanic - and has worked on Ferraris for his entire working life would vouch that it didn't - you then told me that only somebody with your experience would know.

Based on all that, how am I to blame? I genuinely would not sell a car with a known fault. As I told you at the time - and as a dealer you know very well - the car was sold pretty cheap - £31,500 if I recall, for a full history 2 owner car. Even a year ago that was underpriced - I could very easily have put a clutch in and absorbed the cost in an increased sale price if I had known it had a problem, and would have done so.

I don't really understand the reason for bringing this up. You've had the car over a year now and have posted several times how much you like it. Why start attacking me on a public forum? Am I sorry you had unexpected expense? Yes. Did I knowingly sell a car with a fault - and did 9E tell me the clutch slipped when they mapped it? Absolutely not.

I have no intention of turning this thread into an argument about a car I sold a year ago, so I will leave it at that. I sold the car with one fault I knew about - the sunroof which I told you about. To my knowledge, the clutch did not ever slip in my ownership. I'm sorry if it needed replacing soon after you got it, but glad it's now become a car you seem happy with.

Thank you Dave, that's good enough for me

[9e 28]

The Red Devil said:

9e 28 said:

You're the man.....

Thank you. Yes I am a man, are we all not men on here..........

You my friend should definitely use spell check as you do not have a clue when you're making spelling mistakes. May sound crazy but I choose to shorten words for the net as a colloquialism. Also going back to your lovely 996t the fact you're a dealer wouldn't make a difference - you have had the car advertised on your site for more than 11 months. You also cannot sue someone for a consumable i.e. dodgy clutch after one year. Something about the statute of limitations or some malarky like that. It would be like me suing you for a blown light bulb a year later after buying a car from you. Bit daft lol and I'm sure you were only joking.

You never really know if someones a man or a woman on the net do you?

You could be a beautiful girl for all I know

[The Red Devil]

9e 28 said:

You my friend should definitely use spell check as you do not have a clue when you're making spelling mistakes. May sound crazy but I choose to shorten words for the net as a colloquialism. Also going back to your lovely 996t the fact you're a dealer wouldn't make a difference - you have had the car advertised on your site for more than 11 months. You also cannot sue someone for a consumable i.e. dodgy clutch after one year. Something about the statute of limitations or some malarky like that. It would be like me suing you for a blown light bulb a year later after buying a car from you. Bit daft lol and I'm sure you were only joking.

You never really know if someones a man or a woman on the net do you?

You could be a beautiful girl for all I know

Its buried mate, all is well in the playground.
I guess my public school education was wasted on me? given I am now just a hustling car dealer, Mother was right.
The car is on my site yes, though as mentioned before only as a lead in, its not for sale, unless its starts with a 6 which is
a bit away if ever.

I did have a go at trying to punt it last year, then I saw how prices were going, and the package that the car had, I have moved a
few 6Ts since and none of them were as good, or even close, so its now part of my small collection. Becoming irreplaceable, plenty of Silver
and Black about, not my thing. Just finished wiping it down after a spirited sun down drive, fallen in love all over again.

[9e 28]

The Red Devil said:

9e 28 said:

You my friend should definitely use spell check as you do not have a clue when you're making spelling mistakes. May sound crazy but I choose to shorten words for the net as a colloquialism. Also going back to your lovely 996t the fact you're a dealer wouldn't make a difference - you have had the car advertised on your site for more than 11 months. You also cannot sue someone for a consumable i.e. dodgy clutch after one year. Something about the statute of limitations or some malarky like that. It would be like me suing you for a blown light bulb a year later after buying a car from you. Bit daft lol and I'm sure you were only joking.

You never really know if someones a man or a woman on the net do you?

You could be a beautiful girl for all I know

Its buried mate, all is well in the playground.
I guess my public school education was wasted on me? given I am now just a hustling car dealer, Mother was right.
The car is on my site yes, though as mentioned before only as a lead in, its not for sale, unless its starts with a 6 which is
a bit away if ever.

I did have a go at trying to punt it last year, then I saw how prices were going, and the package that the car had, I have moved a
few 6Ts since and none of them were as good, or even close, so its now part of my small collection. Becoming irreplaceable, plenty of Silver
and Black about, not my thing. Just finished wiping it down after a spirited sun down drive, fallen in love all over again.

I wasn't being serious inc all the court hufflepuff and I'm sure you weren't either buddy. Next time I'm up in Scotland will pop in.

[The Red Devil]

9e 28 said:

I wasn't being serious inc all the court hufflepuff and I'm sure you weren't either buddy. Next time I'm up in Scotland will pop in.

I would genuinely like that, and you can give me a masterclass with that car you have...

[9e 28]

The Red Devil said:

9e 28 said:

I wasn't being serious inc all the court hufflepuff and I'm sure you weren't either buddy. Next time I'm up in Scotland will pop in.

I would genuinely like that, and you can give me a masterclass with that car you have...

will do. You can take it for a spin yourself and tell me what you think

[Digga]

Putting the rather tedious question of price aside (other values I'm happy to discuss) there is something very interesting and special happening to 996/7 Mezger engined cars, including the turbos, in terms of an appreciation of their unique and finite place in Porsche legend.

Add into this the significant tuning capacity- amply demonstrated by people on here - which means these cars still have class leading performance and you have an even more unique proposition? I can quite see how owners of good examples will become attached to them and, to an extent, this is reflected in the supply (and yes, the price too, <yawn>).

[The Red Devil]

Digga said:

Putting the rather tedious question of price aside (other values I'm happy to discuss) there is something very interesting and special happening to 996/7 Mezger engined cars, including the turbos, in terms of an appreciation of their unique and finite place in Porsche legend.

Add into this the significant tuning capacity- amply demonstrated by people on here - which means these cars still have class leading performance and you have an even more unique proposition? I can quite see how owners of good examples will become attached to them and, to an extent, this is reflected in the supply (and yes, the price too, <yawn>).

---

The cars have come of age. There is also this sense that possibly the best cars have already been made, they peaked for
me between 1985 - 2002/2003. Proper build quality, less legislation, no nanny state, and a freedom for the manufacturer
to build awesome machines. Now, they all look the same, and are what I call euroboxes, of course exceptions are evident
however very few. The 918 is exceptional, though its a hyper car that only the elite can afford.

Its like the IPhone, its been about now for nearly 10 years, and guess what we are still using, the same phone, why?
Its difficult to get beyond it and they know it, a lot of things have progressed in 10 years given the momentum of
change in the modern day world, we are still using Iphones though. This transcends to cars as well. You take a luxury car
from the 90s, the build quality surpasses all, the engineering is engineering and not software.

I have this notion (biased of course) that the Mezger engine was perhaps the pinnacle for Porsche, and maybe will
never be bettered, the engine in its basic form was developed in the late 90s, it has proved to be ultra strong, and reliable
and highly tuneable. Drop in the fact that Porsche now shy away from manual gearboxes which is essential for a
real drivers car and we are now starting to witness the frenzy for acquiring possibly one of the best Porsche's
ever to grace the roads. The 993 turbo with its overkill price tag is not in the same league at all, a wonderful
car to look at all the same. The 996 Turbo is as close as any of us may ever come to owning a Supercar, and a tuned
car is as close as many of us will ever get to owning a 959, the cars have many similarities.

[Digga]

The 996 turbo takes some very strong styling queues from the 959 - notably inter cooler intakes and vent - which certainly plays acpartvin the attraction for me. As a teenager in the 80s I actually did have a 959 picture on my bedroom wall.

The Mezger is an anomaly. It was never designed as a road or production unit, so it lacks a good deal of the refinement, hence oddities like the characterful noise, oil consumption and huge durability. I'm assured that, to replace, these engines are now massively expensive.

In the same way as production costs and legislative pressures have killed the Land Rover Defender, so they have probably put paid to engines like the Mezger (on the road) and cars like the 911s up to 997.1.

[tjlees]

For me the 997.1 turbo manual has the same appeal as the 996, but a much better interior and more classic Porsche look at the front.

Looks like those 997 prices have gone nuts too. I've lost less in four years of Porsche ownership, than one year of bmw rep car use.

I assume you power junky types do something to strengthen the gearbox? I know 9e and I have guards gears on speed dial - my fifth gear got so scared, it came off!

[9e 28]

tjlees said:

For me the 997.1 turbo manual has the same appeal as the 996, but a much better interior and more classic Porsche look at the front.

Looks like those 997 prices have gone nuts too. I've lost less in four years of Porsche ownership, than one year of bmw rep car use.

I assume you power junky types do something to strengthen the gearbox? I know 9e and I have guards gears on speed dial - my fifth gear got so scared, it came off!

Manual gearbox is fine for 750bhp +. After that pretty easy to strengthen. Front diff is more of an issue above 700bhp but just replace or remove on a 996t. There's guys running 2000bhp on these cars at Texas mile on budgets of $150,000 which is quite small when you think about it. They can run 1/2 mile at 220mph. This is v.quick! They need rebuilds at this level every few years but thats par for the course.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/3...

[Remote]

Few photos after a clean.

Enjoy cleaning this car way to much ; )

[Remote]

[The Red Devil]

tjlees said:

For me the 997.1 turbo manual has the same appeal as the 996, but a much better interior and more classic Porsche look at the front.

This has been flogged to death before, and is subjective, I prefer the 996 cabin, and the front end, the car
is less cluttered. Not better, just different....