2007 Green Porsche 997 GT3 RS - Wise investment?

[mollytherocker]

hornbaek said:

mollytherocker said:

All cars lose value when you drive them. Even those that are appreciating, appreciate less.

There is no way out of this.

Wrong. Classic case are not mileage dependant and benefit from being used. Nobody cares about the actual mileage of a DB4 or 2.7 RS for the matter.

I hate to be a pedant but its generally true. Even though I get your point.

You really think that a 2.7RS with a documented 50k miles vs 100k miles are worth the same? Given the same condition? Of course, there are no 2 cars the same, so it gets complicated.

I know people who have sold collectable cars because they are scared to drive them due to their perception of how it will affect the value. Even thought the car is appreciating anyway!

And then they buy a high depreciating car and feel relieved!

Its all psychological.

[Sam All]

hornbaek said:

mollytherocker said:

All cars lose value when you drive them. Even those that are appreciating, appreciate less.

There is no way out of this.

Wrong. Classic case are not mileage dependant and benefit from being used. Nobody cares about the actual mileage of a DB4 or 2.7 RS for the matter.

A delivery mileage 2.7 RS would be worth a lot more than the used ones. But it would be museum piece.

[RDMcG]

Sam All said:

A delivery mileage 2.7 RS would be worth a lot more than the used ones. But it would be museum piece.

I think that is right; and to me there is not much point for me in having a car I could not drive. I have about 20,000 miles on mine which is not a whole lot for a car registered in 2007, but a fair number are track miles and it has not been used as a commuter. Doubtless track miles also affect value ,but I just down care.

I notice that Total 911 magazine shows total production of the 997.1 RS at 1109. This is much lower than the 997.2. It does seem quite low to me. Does anyone have a better number?

[ChrisW.]

On mileage I think it's true that a couple of thousand miles a year keeps a car running well ....

Classic cars with zeroed miles tended to be due to an as new re-build with all new parts ... and is in my view a bit of a con. And then there are very few ultra low miles cars that should be in museums

Numbers --- just look at How Many Left to see what is in the UK for the various years, .... I guess around 280 GT3 and half that RS from 996 to 997 gen2 ... 991 are quite a lot more. Around 20% of GT3 were Clubsport with the roll cage attachments, fire extinguisher, full harness(es) and in the case of the MkI single mass flywheel and electrical cut offs (which were otherwise reserved for the RS --- sometimes then combined with perspex rear windows for 996 and in the case of the 997 MkI the wider body). Etc ...

The 996 Gen 1 CS is really the RS of it's day (look at the spec and there was otherwise no RS) -- with only 28 UK C16 RHD of a total of 107 cars ?? The 996 gen1 was reputedly manufactured at Weissach if not Werks 1, certainly all the engines were hand built and very conservatively rev limited ... and this car was not available in the USA. It was the transition of the Mezger engine from air to water cooled and the homologation car for the 96 GT3R endurance racers and then Cup cars.

All very interesting now that the engine in the 991 is the 9A1 genII engine that still can be a head-ache because so much is expected of it ... ??

I wonder how the warranty of time will treat these ??

I like the look of the new 919 V4 racing engine --- but this would be a better fit in a GT4 ? Now there's a thought !!

[isaldiri]

RDMcG said:

I notice that Total 911 magazine shows total production of the 997.1 RS at 1109. This is much lower than the 997.2. It does seem quite low to me. Does anyone have a better number?

1900 or thereabouts was always the number I remember being told for the 7.1RS.

[RDMcG]

isaldiri said:

1900 or thereabouts was always the number I remember being told for the 7.1RS.

Thanks. That's more in line with my memory too.

[Dblue]

The 997.1GT3RS is very little changed from the vanilla GT3, engines identical, tracks are the same (Wheelbase is 5mm longer! ) weight only 20kg less and why people pay £20k premiums for a colour is entirely beyond me.

So , intrinsically, paying £165k for an RS rather than £90k for a regular GT3 makes no rational sense.

There are many more differences between 997.2 RS and GT3

[Sam All]

Dblue said:

The 997.1GT3RS is very little changed from the vanilla GT3, engines identical, tracks are the same (Wheelbase is 5mm longer! ) weight only 20kg less and why people pay £20k premiums for a colour is entirely beyond me.

So , intrinsically, paying £165k for an RS rather than £90k for a regular GT3 makes no rational sense.

There are many more differences between 997.2 RS and GT3

Whats the price difference on those? And is that justified?

[Dblue]

Sam All said:

Dblue said:

The 997.1GT3RS is very little changed from the vanilla GT3, engines identical, tracks are the same (Wheelbase is 5mm longer! ) weight only 20kg less and why people pay £20k premiums for a colour is entirely beyond me.

So , intrinsically, paying £165k for an RS rather than £90k for a regular GT3 makes no rational sense.

There are many more differences between 997.2 RS and GT3

Whats the price difference on those? And is that justified?

When new the RS cost just £15k more than the regular GT3, now a black or orange RS will be somewhere between £140k and £165k depending on miles, a green one £20k more. This is because no one wanted the green when new and they are correspondingly rare.
A regular gen 1 997 GT3 will cost around £80k. The value is in the regular GT3 but sentiment and "brand " matter and RS is iconic. If want to drive it save yourself £60k
Gen 2s are a different kettle of fish and if it came to paying £175k for a green RS gen 1 or the same for a gen 2 RS 3.8 you would be quite mad IMHO to choose the older car.

[ChrisW.]

The 997 GT3 MkI was narrow bodied, the RS was wide bodied ...

The RS had extra aero, a single mass flywheel, a different geo set-up, and 20 kilos less due to perspex rear window and ?

Were there any other differences ?

[RDMcG]

ChrisW. said:

The 997 GT3 MkI was narrow bodied, the RS was wide bodied ...

The RS had extra aero, a single mass flywheel, a different geo set-up, and 20 kilos less due to perspex rear window and ?

Were there any other differences ?

There was no stability control even as an option. I may be wrong but i think you could get it on the regular GT3.

[isaldiri]

RDMcG said:

There was no stability control even as an option. I may be wrong but i think you could get it on the regular GT3.

I don't think that is correct. Neither the 7.1 gt3 or RS had ESC. It was post the CGT crash in the US that it was introduced as standard i think even in the GT cars.

Edited by isaldiri on Monday 27th June 22:41

[Dr S]

Sam All said:

Dblue said:

The 997.1GT3RS is very little changed from the vanilla GT3, engines identical, tracks are the same (Wheelbase is 5mm longer! ) weight only 20kg less and why people pay £20k premiums for a colour is entirely beyond me.

So , intrinsically, paying £165k for an RS rather than £90k for a regular GT3 makes no rational sense.

There are many more differences between 997.2 RS and GT3

Whats the price difference on those? And is that justified?

I own both and there are real differences between the cars. To me it's all about the shorter gearing and single mass flywheel in the RS that make it even more enjoyable than the vanilla 3 - even on public roads. Is it worth the premium? Only you can answer that for yourself

[STiG911]

OPC Colchester have a spanking green GT3 with a shade over 16K miles for - wait for it - £110k
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

[ChrisW.]

Dr S said:

I own both and there are real differences between the cars. To me it's all about the shorter gearing and single mass flywheel in the RS that make it even more enjoyable than the vanilla 3 - even on public roads. Is it worth the premium? Only you can answer that for yourself

That sounds right. Certainly the single mass flywheel can be fitted to the GT3 so long as the correct pulley wheel is also fitted --- and whilst the GT3 gearbox was designed to make ratios changeable, I do recall reading that Porsche shortened the ratios of the RS in order make the same power output feel more urgent ....

[Dblue]

Dr S said:

Sam All said:

Dblue said:

The 997.1GT3RS is very little changed from the vanilla GT3, engines identical, tracks are the same (Wheelbase is 5mm longer! ) weight only 20kg less and why people pay £20k premiums for a colour is entirely beyond me.

So , intrinsically, paying £165k for an RS rather than £90k for a regular GT3 makes no rational sense.

There are many more differences between 997.2 RS and GT3

Whats the price difference on those? And is that justified?

I own both and there are real differences between the cars. To me it's all about the shorter gearing and single mass flywheel in the RS that make it even more enjoyable than the vanilla 3 - even on public roads. Is it worth the premium? Only you can answer that for yourself

The RS has a single mass flywheel but gearing is the same unless your RS is running a cup diff. There's only 5mm difference in wheel base, nothing in track (Unlike the gen 2 997 ) and geo is the same when stock but of course all GT3s are very adjustable. Aero is minimally different, slightly different front splitter and bigger rear wing and it does have a lexan rear window (But still only 20kg lighter) but if it feels different it's down to set up rather than fundamentals.
My RS felt sweeter and faster than my vanilla GT3 but I just think it was a better example TBH. Rationally you could never justify a £50k premium on gen 1s but emotionally , perhaps.
I would say they are right at the top of the market right now, next move will be down IMHO.