160k E90 vs 120k E46?
Discussion
Hi all. In my current search for a manual replacement for our auto E46 I have spotted a high mileage E90 SE in budget.
The facelift E46 cars seem to be hovering between 120k - 140k at this level (our current one is mid 130s) so I'm just after some advice really on if there's any reason not to go for the E90?
The obvious downside is that it's an SE vs the E46s which are Sports, but I want to use it for occasional track days too so any car at 100k plus is going to want new shocks and springs, which makes it a bit of a moot point.
The upside is that it has the sports seats, so that's something. I understand the steering wheel would be a skinnier version, but that isn't exactly hard to sort.
Just to be absolutely clear, the car would be for commuter/odd track day use. Not a pride and joy sort of thing so the SE looks won't grate on me so much. It will get parked in city centre car parks every day etc.
Any thoughts?
The facelift E46 cars seem to be hovering between 120k - 140k at this level (our current one is mid 130s) so I'm just after some advice really on if there's any reason not to go for the E90?
The obvious downside is that it's an SE vs the E46s which are Sports, but I want to use it for occasional track days too so any car at 100k plus is going to want new shocks and springs, which makes it a bit of a moot point.
The upside is that it has the sports seats, so that's something. I understand the steering wheel would be a skinnier version, but that isn't exactly hard to sort.
Just to be absolutely clear, the car would be for commuter/odd track day use. Not a pride and joy sort of thing so the SE looks won't grate on me so much. It will get parked in city centre car parks every day etc.
Any thoughts?
TroubledSoul said:
Hi all. In my current search for a manual replacement for our auto E46 I have spotted a high mileage E90 SE in budget.
The facelift E46 cars seem to be hovering between 120k - 140k at this level (our current one is mid 130s) so I'm just after some advice really on if there's any reason not to go for the E90?
The obvious downside is that it's an SE vs the E46s which are Sports, but I want to use it for occasional track days too so any car at 100k plus is going to want new shocks and springs, which makes it a bit of a moot point.
The upside is that it has the sports seats, so that's something. I understand the steering wheel would be a skinnier version, but that isn't exactly hard to sort.
Just to be absolutely clear, the car would be for commuter/odd track day use. Not a pride and joy sort of thing so the SE looks won't grate on me so much. It will get parked in city centre car parks every day etc.
Any thoughts?
You don't say what engine, but having gone E46 - E92 - E46 the big pluses of the E46 are that the car is lighter, has better steering feel and better driving position, you sit lower for example. Sport eats are not quite as good as the sport seas in E9X though. but I'd say 3-1 advantages for track use at least. The facelift E46 cars seem to be hovering between 120k - 140k at this level (our current one is mid 130s) so I'm just after some advice really on if there's any reason not to go for the E90?
The obvious downside is that it's an SE vs the E46s which are Sports, but I want to use it for occasional track days too so any car at 100k plus is going to want new shocks and springs, which makes it a bit of a moot point.
The upside is that it has the sports seats, so that's something. I understand the steering wheel would be a skinnier version, but that isn't exactly hard to sort.
Just to be absolutely clear, the car would be for commuter/odd track day use. Not a pride and joy sort of thing so the SE looks won't grate on me so much. It will get parked in city centre car parks every day etc.
Any thoughts?
Obviously if you are talking 335i, then the E46 even it it's best iteration is well below it for power.
I guess these 3-1 advantages don't matter as much for the daily grind and there is nothing wrong per se with the E90 generation.
TroubledSoul said:
Sorry, I meant both cars as being 330i models. Bit more power int he E90 but obviously a bit more weight too.
I'm just curious to know whether there's any sort of major step forward that makes the E90 better really but it doesn't sound much like it from what you've said.
The numbers suggest 330 in E90 form is going to be faster, although you may need to get into the nitty gritty of whether it's a N52 or N53 to be very precise as to how much a step forward. I'm just curious to know whether there's any sort of major step forward that makes the E90 better really but it doesn't sound much like it from what you've said.
I went coupe to coupe and I don't regret it at all because of the engine: (335i) both it's performance and sound.
But if engine is roughly like for like (say 330 for 330) besides the other E46 pluses I mentioned, E46 looks better and it's a nicer size. You don't have either RFTs (dreadful) or no spare/ need tyre weld situation. No problems if you're actually E90 (saloon iteration) but E92, I hate the fact the back windows don't open, luckily I had a sun roof.
E46, I can vouch from my first one, did not seem tired at 140k. I don't know whether a E90 would. If it didn't, then there could be that sense "it's a more modern car" and depending on exact spec, there might be more 'toys' to add into the mix. I had lots on my E92 and even though I'm not a gadget person (and anyways, I was 4th owner so never chose them) heated seats, pro nav, comfort access, all make my current E46 a spartan place to be and yet I'm not that unhappy about that. It's really the engine that made my E92 experience for me! I miss that aspect. Thank God I have a M3 for weekends to compensate
I have a 2005 E91 330i. It's done 181k and is a nice step up from the E46 330i (124k miles) that I've previously owned. I'm not claiming it's perfect, by any means. It currently needs a service (it has FBMWSH!) and the fuel breather pipe in the filler neck is leaking gently, so needs replacing, but apart from that it's wearing the miles very well. Even cosmetically it's ok.
At this age/mileage, it's a buy on condition purchase. Mine has had the suspension refreshed and I guess that bushes/brakes/clutch etc might all be required at 140k+ miles. However, it's still a great place to sit and the way it drives is lovely. I don't batter around in it, but the car will certainly respond well and continues to chase the red line if required. Mine has the N52 258bhp lump, so no DI issues, which is nice.
At this age/mileage, it's a buy on condition purchase. Mine has had the suspension refreshed and I guess that bushes/brakes/clutch etc might all be required at 140k+ miles. However, it's still a great place to sit and the way it drives is lovely. I don't batter around in it, but the car will certainly respond well and continues to chase the red line if required. Mine has the N52 258bhp lump, so no DI issues, which is nice.
helix402 said:
E90s don't rust like the 46.
They're certainly not as prone to rust. Mine has the odd little spec here and there, but it's original paint, so I'm actually thinking about getting BMW to take a look and see if it can be resolved under the 12 year body anti-corrosion warranty. With FBMWSH, it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully. MattOz said:
They're certainly not as prone to rust. Mine has the odd little spec here and there, but it's original paint, so I'm actually thinking about getting BMW to take a look and see if it can be resolved under the 12 year body anti-corrosion warranty. With FBMWSH, it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully.
That's a pretty good selling point to be honest! The rust at the front of the rear arches is a real ball ache on the E46. I have an E36 M3 Evo though so it's nice to see the amount of rust gradually reducing with generations
TroubledSoul said:
That's a pretty good selling point to be honest! The rust at the front of the rear arches is a real ball ache on the E46.
I have an E36 M3 Evo though so it's nice to see the amount of rust gradually reducing with generations
Indeed! My E46 had a rusty rear arch which I got sorted before selling. The front arches obviously rust from within as the plastic arch liners rub away at the inner surface over the years and the inevitable creep commences. My last E91 had the tailgate sorted under warranty as that had some signs of corrosion. That was a 2009 car! I have an E36 M3 Evo though so it's nice to see the amount of rust gradually reducing with generations
Overall, and in my opinion, the E9* is a better car than the E46, if not quite as pretty.
Yeah I think I'm going to go see this one. It's bottom of the market so if it sells it's an E46 as you don't see many at this price. For what I want it for I don't mind if it's a bit rough around the edges to be honest. I'm more than capable of sorting most issues. When I actually have the time!
Swervin_Mervin said:
Apols for the hijack but it's nice to see one on 180k! Mine's on a relatively small 94k and I can't see me getting rid anytime soon
Agree and it's nice to see they take that mileage, mines on 65k but I didn't expect it to go much more than 100k without the engine falling to bits so this has encouraged me big time. Sold the E90 330d at over 150k and that was still running as sweet as a nut but I didn't expect the same from the 330i until this thread.
cerb4.5lee said:
Agree and it's nice to see they take that mileage, mines on 65k but I didn't expect it to go much more than 100k without the engine falling to bits so this has encouraged me big time.
Sold the E90 330d at over 150k and that was still running as sweet as a nut but I didn't expect the same from the 330i until this thread.
A good mate of mine has an 06 plate 330d on 190k. It still runs brilliantly. Would rather run the 330i at that mileage though. Less to go wrong, mechanically. Sold the E90 330d at over 150k and that was still running as sweet as a nut but I didn't expect the same from the 330i until this thread.
MattOz said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Agree and it's nice to see they take that mileage, mines on 65k but I didn't expect it to go much more than 100k without the engine falling to bits so this has encouraged me big time.
Sold the E90 330d at over 150k and that was still running as sweet as a nut but I didn't expect the same from the 330i until this thread.
A good mate of mine has an 06 plate 330d on 190k. It still runs brilliantly. Would rather run the 330i at that mileage though. Less to go wrong, mechanically. Sold the E90 330d at over 150k and that was still running as sweet as a nut but I didn't expect the same from the 330i until this thread.
Tricky choice OP!
FWIW I can't see an E90 with 258bhp being that much quicker than an E46 with 231bhp given that the former is a bit bigger and heavier.
The E90 may be a bit more refined being a newer model, but I prefer the looks of the E46 (especially in Coupe form) although less rustiness would be a bonus!
I have an E86 Z4C for special days with the same 3 litre N52 engine as the early E90s and it is fantastic, especially when you chase the red line. Mind you the 2.5 litre M54 in my daily 325ti Compact is also fantastic when you get it revving so I'm sure a 3 litre M54 would be great as well.
My only issue with the N52 engine so far was a knackered water pump at 60K miles and 9 years - temperature gauge shot into the red and the warning light came on in less than 1 mile of pulling away from putting petrol in it, but at least I could see what was happening - you wouldn't know as quickly in an E90 as there is no temperature gauge for some bonkers reason (E92s have one though)!
Anyway it got worse after that as the new OEM electric water pump cost just over £500 before fitting!
I got the whole cooling system on my 325ti refreshed for less than that including rad, temp. sensor, expansion tank, aux. drive belt and labour!
Oh yes, and N52 engines don't have a dip-stick so you rely on the oil level sensor (whereas M54s have both)!
So although the N52 may be more technologically advanced I'm not sure the slightly greater performance makes up for the potential pitfalls.
If they had made a Z4 Coupe with an M54 engine then personally that is what I would have gone for.
I think in your situation (especially as you have plans for some track action) I would be sorely tempted to stick to the reputedly bomb-proof "analogue" M54 rather than the uber-sophisticated "digital" N52, but good luck with whichever one you go for.
FWIW I can't see an E90 with 258bhp being that much quicker than an E46 with 231bhp given that the former is a bit bigger and heavier.
The E90 may be a bit more refined being a newer model, but I prefer the looks of the E46 (especially in Coupe form) although less rustiness would be a bonus!
I have an E86 Z4C for special days with the same 3 litre N52 engine as the early E90s and it is fantastic, especially when you chase the red line. Mind you the 2.5 litre M54 in my daily 325ti Compact is also fantastic when you get it revving so I'm sure a 3 litre M54 would be great as well.
My only issue with the N52 engine so far was a knackered water pump at 60K miles and 9 years - temperature gauge shot into the red and the warning light came on in less than 1 mile of pulling away from putting petrol in it, but at least I could see what was happening - you wouldn't know as quickly in an E90 as there is no temperature gauge for some bonkers reason (E92s have one though)!
Anyway it got worse after that as the new OEM electric water pump cost just over £500 before fitting!
I got the whole cooling system on my 325ti refreshed for less than that including rad, temp. sensor, expansion tank, aux. drive belt and labour!Oh yes, and N52 engines don't have a dip-stick so you rely on the oil level sensor (whereas M54s have both)!
So although the N52 may be more technologically advanced I'm not sure the slightly greater performance makes up for the potential pitfalls.
If they had made a Z4 Coupe with an M54 engine then personally that is what I would have gone for.
I think in your situation (especially as you have plans for some track action) I would be sorely tempted to stick to the reputedly bomb-proof "analogue" M54 rather than the uber-sophisticated "digital" N52, but good luck with whichever one you go for.
It is worth noting that even the youngest e46 is now an old car. The 3 litre e46 engine does like to use a lot of oil and 1 litre every 1000 miles is not uncommon.
The later engine is a real notable improvement, the handling is better in my opinion having owned both, and suspension componentry like bushes are markedly better and more durable. The e46 was in affect a face lifted e36. The e90 was a completely new chassi.
I would get the lowest mileage one you can afford. Then adding track based suspension and changing seats is easy. Also the price difference is no different now.
Also consider a 325ti compact if you want an e46 alternative. Really cheap, really light and are probable the best track based road going BMW for the money.
The later engine is a real notable improvement, the handling is better in my opinion having owned both, and suspension componentry like bushes are markedly better and more durable. The e46 was in affect a face lifted e36. The e90 was a completely new chassi.
I would get the lowest mileage one you can afford. Then adding track based suspension and changing seats is easy. Also the price difference is no different now.
Also consider a 325ti compact if you want an e46 alternative. Really cheap, really light and are probable the best track based road going BMW for the money.
Sohlman said:
It is worth noting that even the youngest e46 is now an old car. The 3 litre e46 engine does like to use a lot of oil and 1 litre every 1000 miles is not uncommon.
The later engine is a real notable improvement, the handling is better in my opinion having owned both, and suspension componentry like bushes are markedly better and more durable. The e46 was in affect a face lifted e36. The e90 was a completely new chassi.
I would get the lowest mileage one you can afford. Then adding track based suspension and changing seats is easy. Also the price difference is no different now.
Also consider a 325ti compact if you want an e46 alternative. Really cheap, really light and are probable the best track based road going BMW for the money.
Absolutely the E90 started on 55 reg so your looking at an 12 year old + for the E46. So think bushes springs shocks brake pipes cracking hoses, exhaust radiator wheel bearings. The later engine is a real notable improvement, the handling is better in my opinion having owned both, and suspension componentry like bushes are markedly better and more durable. The e46 was in affect a face lifted e36. The e90 was a completely new chassi.
I would get the lowest mileage one you can afford. Then adding track based suspension and changing seats is easy. Also the price difference is no different now.
Also consider a 325ti compact if you want an e46 alternative. Really cheap, really light and are probable the best track based road going BMW for the money.
Also the E90 is more economical and less polluting
Rust issues
The E90 is a better car than the E46 ditto the F30 is better than the E90.
It's a 2005 E90 so no spring chicken. But it will be our s
tter and it will get thrown around a track a few times until I finish building the M3 Evo. I'm going in with my eyes open, fully prepared to walk away if it's not right. I certainly wouldn't be upset to have to buy a decent E46 instead. Just the possibility of getting into an E90 for similar money is hard to resist without at least looking at it.
I have had a look at the past MOT history and it had a fair list of advisories on the last one. The trader says these are sorted and it will come with a fresh MOT so we'll see. If it turns out he's bullstted me then alarm bells will be ringing!
In the meantime, I've seen a few nice E46s although mostly in saloon form. Amazing what the coupes still command pricewise really.
Saw a nice coupe, but it's in Bransholme in Hull so I'm no longer keen
tter and it will get thrown around a track a few times until I finish building the M3 Evo. I'm going in with my eyes open, fully prepared to walk away if it's not right. I certainly wouldn't be upset to have to buy a decent E46 instead. Just the possibility of getting into an E90 for similar money is hard to resist without at least looking at it. I have had a look at the past MOT history and it had a fair list of advisories on the last one. The trader says these are sorted and it will come with a fresh MOT so we'll see. If it turns out he's bulls
tted me then alarm bells will be ringing!In the meantime, I've seen a few nice E46s although mostly in saloon form. Amazing what the coupes still command pricewise really.
Saw a nice coupe, but it's in Bransholme in Hull so I'm no longer keen
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