Tyre reviews? Pirelli vs Conti vs Michelin
Discussion
I would appreciate any views or data on relative performance of N-rated tyres.
I have a 996 facelift Carerra 4 that's going to need some boots soon. I'm looking at three options:
(1) Pirelli P Zero Rosso N4
(2) Continental ContiSportContact2 N2
(3) Michelin Pilot Sport 2 N3
The car is currently on Continental ContiSportContact2, grip seems good and handling progressive. However I've never driven a 911 with either the Michelin or Pirelli.
I can't find any objective comparisons or reviews on the web between these three tyres.
The subjective comments seem to suggest Michelin is the best, and Pirelli the least favoured. Michelin seems the most expensive so perhaps its a case of you get what you pay for....
I would be grateful for any info or opinions, or links to other reviews
Thanks
I have a 996 facelift Carerra 4 that's going to need some boots soon. I'm looking at three options:
(1) Pirelli P Zero Rosso N4
(2) Continental ContiSportContact2 N2
(3) Michelin Pilot Sport 2 N3
The car is currently on Continental ContiSportContact2, grip seems good and handling progressive. However I've never driven a 911 with either the Michelin or Pirelli.
I can't find any objective comparisons or reviews on the web between these three tyres.
The subjective comments seem to suggest Michelin is the best, and Pirelli the least favoured. Michelin seems the most expensive so perhaps its a case of you get what you pay for....
I would be grateful for any info or opinions, or links to other reviews
Thanks
I've run Pirelli on my Boxster along with Michelin tires. Michelin tires are a tad better (at least my non-scientific opinion has them better) in that Michelin tires deliver slightly longer tire life and are a bit quieter as they get near worn out.
But Michelin tires were more expensive. However, a few times the price difference was negligible and I went with Michelin. A few sets ago Michelin tires were unavailable -- backed ordered for months and months -- so I went back to Pirelli and they have been just fine.
Frankly I can't tell the difference by the way the car handles, feels, and unless I could drive the two tires back to back probably not by the noise either.
For my 996 Turbo it came with Continental tires, N-rated but I forget the number now, and the Conti's were a good tire. Think I ran through 2 sets of these and then when it came time to replace all 4 I was unable to find Conti tires but Bridgestone tires were available so I bought them. They have been a fine tire. Honestly and frankly I can't tell the difference.
And really this is the way it should be. If one tire made the car any signficantly better I suspect that would the recommended tire, but these cars through the MY or through the model run can come with a variety of tire brands.
As long as you stick with a sanctioned tire and of course all 4 are the same tire (differing obviously only in size) and the same N-rating you'll be fine.
My only advice is try to pick a tire that should a tire get a puncture and you have to replace it you can get the same exact tire so you don't have to replace all 4 to avoid mixing tires.
But Michelin tires were more expensive. However, a few times the price difference was negligible and I went with Michelin. A few sets ago Michelin tires were unavailable -- backed ordered for months and months -- so I went back to Pirelli and they have been just fine.
Frankly I can't tell the difference by the way the car handles, feels, and unless I could drive the two tires back to back probably not by the noise either.
For my 996 Turbo it came with Continental tires, N-rated but I forget the number now, and the Conti's were a good tire. Think I ran through 2 sets of these and then when it came time to replace all 4 I was unable to find Conti tires but Bridgestone tires were available so I bought them. They have been a fine tire. Honestly and frankly I can't tell the difference.
And really this is the way it should be. If one tire made the car any signficantly better I suspect that would the recommended tire, but these cars through the MY or through the model run can come with a variety of tire brands.
As long as you stick with a sanctioned tire and of course all 4 are the same tire (differing obviously only in size) and the same N-rating you'll be fine.
My only advice is try to pick a tire that should a tire get a puncture and you have to replace it you can get the same exact tire so you don't have to replace all 4 to avoid mixing tires.
Your main issue is that nobody will be reviewing these ancient tyres today - the professionals are testing the latest and far superior tyres, designed and constructed using modern methods. R&D budgets of the tyre companies are huge, and they make huge leaps forward every few years with new revisions of each tyre.
Countering this, modern requirements for a tyre have shifted towards fuel consumption, comfort, and noise - in other words, the environment, so it's not always true that more modern = a better 'handling' tyre.... for instance sidewalls seem to be getting softer.
1) so - first question - 17s or 18s?
2) To answer your specific question with my own experiences on a 911...
Those Pirellis are without doubt one of the worst 'performance' tyres still made today, under the N-rated banner. Designed and formulated 20+ years ago, Pirelli pitched these at dry use only. The dry performance also drops off a cliff at about 50% wear. The P-zero has gone through at least 3 full revisions since, whilst this particular tyre has stood still.
Conti sport 2 N2 are from a similar 20+ years ago design/construction, but at least the design was pitched towards wet and dry conditions - they don't do anything badly, but they also don't do anything particularly well compared to a modern tyre.
The N3 PS2 however is one of those rare tyres that they got right at the time, and has stood the test of time. The sidewalls are hard enough, the wet and dry weather performance still comparable with modern tyres.
Unfortunately Bridgestone have stopped making the S-02 KZ-N3, which IME is noticably better than the PS2 in the dry, but slightly worse in the wet/cold, but only slightly.
Right now I happen to have N-rated PS2 on the front, and non-N-rated PS4s on the back, and although that's not telling you much as the grip requirements on a 911 are very different front-to-rear, the fact that I can still extract full enjoyment from the car in all weathers should tell you something.
Management Summary
If you are going to limit yourself to N-rated tyres, the Michelin is IME the only tyre to fit if you live in a country where it rains, or in a country where it doesn't.
NB - Rockster is in americaland, and so might have completely different formulated tires.
Countering this, modern requirements for a tyre have shifted towards fuel consumption, comfort, and noise - in other words, the environment, so it's not always true that more modern = a better 'handling' tyre.... for instance sidewalls seem to be getting softer.
1) so - first question - 17s or 18s?
2) To answer your specific question with my own experiences on a 911...
Those Pirellis are without doubt one of the worst 'performance' tyres still made today, under the N-rated banner. Designed and formulated 20+ years ago, Pirelli pitched these at dry use only. The dry performance also drops off a cliff at about 50% wear. The P-zero has gone through at least 3 full revisions since, whilst this particular tyre has stood still.
Conti sport 2 N2 are from a similar 20+ years ago design/construction, but at least the design was pitched towards wet and dry conditions - they don't do anything badly, but they also don't do anything particularly well compared to a modern tyre.
The N3 PS2 however is one of those rare tyres that they got right at the time, and has stood the test of time. The sidewalls are hard enough, the wet and dry weather performance still comparable with modern tyres.
Unfortunately Bridgestone have stopped making the S-02 KZ-N3, which IME is noticably better than the PS2 in the dry, but slightly worse in the wet/cold, but only slightly.
Right now I happen to have N-rated PS2 on the front, and non-N-rated PS4s on the back, and although that's not telling you much as the grip requirements on a 911 are very different front-to-rear, the fact that I can still extract full enjoyment from the car in all weathers should tell you something.
Management Summary
If you are going to limit yourself to N-rated tyres, the Michelin is IME the only tyre to fit if you live in a country where it rains, or in a country where it doesn't.
NB - Rockster is in americaland, and so might have completely different formulated tires.
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 6th July 09:13
i appreciate that you require N rated tyres, but modern tyres have seen an enormous leap forward in performance in the last few years, big jump on those around 6-7 years ago.
I've used (i.e. worn out an entire set of) michelin ps4, pss, conti sc5p and sc6. conti do have better wet grip, purely from a softer compound, wear rates are pretty poor. the 5p has very soft sidewalls and really i cannot recommend it, sc6 is a very good tyre although still lacks feel compared to the michelin and will also wear faster. mpss and ps4 - outstanding tyres, the new ps4 especially, cheapish, very close to mpss on road - massive thumbs up. I have some time on cup2s, imho total waste of time unless you basically just need to drive to the track, not a road tyre at all.
I've used (i.e. worn out an entire set of) michelin ps4, pss, conti sc5p and sc6. conti do have better wet grip, purely from a softer compound, wear rates are pretty poor. the 5p has very soft sidewalls and really i cannot recommend it, sc6 is a very good tyre although still lacks feel compared to the michelin and will also wear faster. mpss and ps4 - outstanding tyres, the new ps4 especially, cheapish, very close to mpss on road - massive thumbs up. I have some time on cup2s, imho total waste of time unless you basically just need to drive to the track, not a road tyre at all.
GarrettOConnor1 said:
I would appreciate any views or data on relative performance of N-rated tyres.
I have a 996 facelift Carerra 4 that's going to need some boots soon. I'm looking at three options:
(1) Pirelli P Zero Rosso N4
(2) Continental ContiSportContact2 N2
(3) Michelin Pilot Sport 2 N3
I would be grateful for any info or opinions, or links to other reviews
Thanks
buy some new tyres not 10 year old one !I have a 996 facelift Carerra 4 that's going to need some boots soon. I'm looking at three options:
(1) Pirelli P Zero Rosso N4
(2) Continental ContiSportContact2 N2
(3) Michelin Pilot Sport 2 N3
I would be grateful for any info or opinions, or links to other reviews
Thanks
robertpaulson said:
the 5p has very soft sidewalls and really i cannot recommend it, sc6 is a very good tyre although still lacks feel compared to the michelin and will also wear faster. mpss and ps4 - outstanding tyres, the new ps4 especially, cheapish, very close to mpss on road - massive thumbs up.
Thanks for posting that - my biggest problem is trying to decide from the reviews how soft the tyrewalls are on the latest tyre revisions.I chose PS4 as I prefer harder sidewalls - looks like I might have got it right
- however they are not yet available in 255/40/17.IMO in 18" it's a no-brainer to choose the PS4.
Do they do Goodyear Eagle F1s in 'N' spec and the those sizes (I gather they are doing some Porsche approved sizes)?
In other applications, they have been excellent and always come out well in tyre reviews. They are also, usually, a couple of dB quieter than the Michelin/Pirelli/Contis, which makes for a nicer road tyre.
In other applications, they have been excellent and always come out well in tyre reviews. They are also, usually, a couple of dB quieter than the Michelin/Pirelli/Contis, which makes for a nicer road tyre.
Koln-RS said:
Do they do Goodyear Eagle F1s in 'N' spec and the those sizes (I gather they are doing some Porsche approved sizes)?
In other applications, they have been excellent and always come out well in tyre reviews. They are also, usually, a couple of dB quieter than the Michelin/Pirelli/Contis, which makes for a nicer road tyre.
Quite a few come as new with these tyres fitted so N spec is certainly available it just depends on the sizes required.In other applications, they have been excellent and always come out well in tyre reviews. They are also, usually, a couple of dB quieter than the Michelin/Pirelli/Contis, which makes for a nicer road tyre.
Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated
I've got 18 inch wheels, looks like Michelin is the one to go for.
One thing I don't understand is why the only Michelin given an N-rating for a 996 C4 by Porsche are the Pilot Sport 2 (N3) variety.
- Is this because the PS2 tyre is better suited to the 996 spring/damper rates and geometry than a more modern tyre, i.e. the PS4?
- Or is the reason that Porsche have simply never got around to doing the testing necessary to certify the PS4 for the 996 C4?
My instinct says Porsche have simply never got around to testing the PS4 but that's just a guess on my part - would appreciate any insight from anyone who knows the answer!
I've got 18 inch wheels, looks like Michelin is the one to go for.
One thing I don't understand is why the only Michelin given an N-rating for a 996 C4 by Porsche are the Pilot Sport 2 (N3) variety.
- Is this because the PS2 tyre is better suited to the 996 spring/damper rates and geometry than a more modern tyre, i.e. the PS4?
- Or is the reason that Porsche have simply never got around to doing the testing necessary to certify the PS4 for the 996 C4?
My instinct says Porsche have simply never got around to testing the PS4 but that's just a guess on my part - would appreciate any insight from anyone who knows the answer!
I read an interesting article a couple of weeks back. Ran in the states. An annual tyre testing program. Michelin Super Sports came out on top for overall performance in both wet and dry conditions. Wish I could find the link but I will be fitting these on the Cat when it needs a new set of boots.
GarrettOConnor1 said:
One thing I don't understand is why the only Michelin given an N-rating for a 996 C4 by Porsche are the Pilot Sport 2 (N3) variety.
- Is this because the PS2 tyre is better suited to the 996 spring/damper rates and geometry than a more modern tyre, i.e. the PS4?
- Or is the reason that Porsche have simply never got around to doing the testing necessary to certify the PS4 for the 996 C4?
Porsche don't test or design new tyres for older cars. Also the OE tyre sizes have changed over time, so the newer 'approved' tyres only fit the newer cars.- Is this because the PS2 tyre is better suited to the 996 spring/damper rates and geometry than a more modern tyre, i.e. the PS4?
- Or is the reason that Porsche have simply never got around to doing the testing necessary to certify the PS4 for the 996 C4?
Depending on what you use the car for (tracking or shopping) but I would consider the many non-N-rated tyres in 225/40 and 265/35 - as always, it's the rears that have very little choice.
Orangecurry said:
GarrettOConnor1 said:
One thing I don't understand is why the only Michelin given an N-rating for a 996 C4 by Porsche are the Pilot Sport 2 (N3) variety.
- Is this because the PS2 tyre is better suited to the 996 spring/damper rates and geometry than a more modern tyre, i.e. the PS4?
- Or is the reason that Porsche have simply never got around to doing the testing necessary to certify the PS4 for the 996 C4?
Porsche don't test or design new tyres for older cars. Also the OE tyre sizes have changed over time, so the newer 'approved' tyres only fit the newer cars.- Is this because the PS2 tyre is better suited to the 996 spring/damper rates and geometry than a more modern tyre, i.e. the PS4?
- Or is the reason that Porsche have simply never got around to doing the testing necessary to certify the PS4 for the 996 C4?
Depending on what you use the car for (tracking or shopping) but I would consider the many non-N-rated tyres in 225/40 and 265/35 - as always, it's the rears that have very little choice.
Thanks again to everyone for the info and advice.
For anyone interested, I did a bit more research into the Michelin PS4 and PSS, it turns out that as predicted they don't come in the right size for my 996 running on "tiny" 18-inch wheels. Every Porsche 911 wheel is 19 or 20 inches these days - 18 inches doesn't cut it any more! As I'm keen on getting N-rated tyres that means it PS2's for me!
For anyone interested, I did a bit more research into the Michelin PS4 and PSS, it turns out that as predicted they don't come in the right size for my 996 running on "tiny" 18-inch wheels. Every Porsche 911 wheel is 19 or 20 inches these days - 18 inches doesn't cut it any more! As I'm keen on getting N-rated tyres that means it PS2's for me!
PS4 are widely available in 265/35/18 ?
ETA you want N-rated? Well OK, but as agreed by every tyre expert in the world, including Michelin, the PS4 is a huge leap ahead of the PS2.
You also may struggle to find new rears next time, and therefore end-up with a mixed set. Personally I don't have an issue with that, but it sounds like you may.
Good luck
ETA you want N-rated? Well OK, but as agreed by every tyre expert in the world, including Michelin, the PS4 is a huge leap ahead of the PS2.
You also may struggle to find new rears next time, and therefore end-up with a mixed set. Personally I don't have an issue with that, but it sounds like you may.
Good luck
Edited by Orangecurry on Tuesday 12th July 08:32
Orangecurry said:
PS4 are widely available in 265/35/18 ?
ETA you want N-rated? Well OK, but as agreed by every tyre expert in the world, including Michelin, the PS4 is a huge leap ahead of the PS2.
You also may struggle to find new rears next time, and therefore end-up with a mixed set. Personally I don't have an issue with that, but it sounds like you may.
Good luck
I was trying to find 285/30/18 which is the Porsche-blessed tyre size but I guess 265/35/18 would be a close fit. I've probably got a few months until I need to change (tread ~ 4mm) so may just hang on and see ifETA you want N-rated? Well OK, but as agreed by every tyre expert in the world, including Michelin, the PS4 is a huge leap ahead of the PS2.
You also may struggle to find new rears next time, and therefore end-up with a mixed set. Personally I don't have an issue with that, but it sounds like you may.
Good luck
Edited by Orangecurry on Tuesday 12th July 08:32
(1) PS4's get N-rated, or
(2) I change my mind about the importance on N-rating!
I'm very happy with the PS2s on my car. Great in all weathers and, as I don't track, what more do I need? Much nicer than the Pirelli set I had beforehand, although they were very worn when I changed them. In fairness the PS2s do get a little playful in wet weather, but again only if they're worn past their best.
I've only had N rated tyres on my car, but that's because the tyres I got had that option - if some newer and non-rated was available I'd not worry. It's not like my 17 year old car has any sort of warranty..
I'd consider trying a set of Cups next, but I'd worry about wet weather performance, and the front PS2s I've got refuse to wear (almost 20k miles on them and they look new).
Running the usual 225/40/18 and 285/30/18
I've only had N rated tyres on my car, but that's because the tyres I got had that option - if some newer and non-rated was available I'd not worry. It's not like my 17 year old car has any sort of warranty..
I'd consider trying a set of Cups next, but I'd worry about wet weather performance, and the front PS2s I've got refuse to wear (almost 20k miles on them and they look new).
Running the usual 225/40/18 and 285/30/18
Do you not have the option of 265/35s? Have you looked in the driver's manual and/or door plate?
285/30 has almost no choice whatsoever.
If you are worried about grip/width, a close friend had a 996.2 C2 and it came on 17s wearing 205/50 and 255/40, and he took it round Spa and the Nordschleife and wasn't killed to death once.
As I've said a few times, the PS2 is an excellent tyre, and you could do much worse if you chose many a modern tyre.... but you can also choose better, according to Michelin.
285/30 has almost no choice whatsoever.
If you are worried about grip/width, a close friend had a 996.2 C2 and it came on 17s wearing 205/50 and 255/40, and he took it round Spa and the Nordschleife and wasn't killed to death once.
As I've said a few times, the PS2 is an excellent tyre, and you could do much worse if you chose many a modern tyre.... but you can also choose better, according to Michelin.
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