Top Gear's Review of the 718 Cayman ...
Discussion
... is out.
They don't like the F4T it seems ...
Dan's review here on PH was much more forgiving.
They don't like the F4T it seems ...
Dan's review here on PH was much more forgiving.
Edited by Timbola on Monday 11th July 07:02
...as is Autocar's
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/cayman...
and AutoExpress's
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayman-s/9630...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/cayman...
and AutoExpress's
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayman-s/9630...
Pistonheads review for reference: http://www.pistonheads.com/road-tests/porsche/pors...
Nice to see all the reviewers not just talking about the noise of the four-pot, but the throttle response. This is is the issue I have with turbo cars as the instant reaction from an NA engine is what I would miss the most.
Sounds like it's still a great car, but slipping from five to four, or four and a half, stars...
Nice to see all the reviewers not just talking about the noise of the four-pot, but the throttle response. This is is the issue I have with turbo cars as the instant reaction from an NA engine is what I would miss the most.
Sounds like it's still a great car, but slipping from five to four, or four and a half, stars...
I really think this car is getting 'slammed' because it's something to say for the journos.
It's always the same: Audis understeer and have lifeless steering, Mercedes have an 'aftermarket iPad' on the dash, BMWs are tail happy and not good in the wet, Porsche has ruined their new car with [insert new technology] etc. etc. etc. - it's all exaggerating to make a point because they need to get articles out at the press launch.
I've driven a 718 Boxster S, and (i) it doesn't sound as bad as they are making out or as it sounds on YouTube, (ii) it is beautifully made, and, crucially (iii) at road speeds, on roads, and in road conditions, there is basically no lag, the throttle response is great and the engine is fantastic.
I think if you say a car is terrible because, in theory, its predecessor has more "drama" over 7,000rpm, then you're missing out. And a lot of the views expressed on the model by people on the internet are from people who haven't actually seen / driven one yet.
Give the thing a chance!!
It's always the same: Audis understeer and have lifeless steering, Mercedes have an 'aftermarket iPad' on the dash, BMWs are tail happy and not good in the wet, Porsche has ruined their new car with [insert new technology] etc. etc. etc. - it's all exaggerating to make a point because they need to get articles out at the press launch.
I've driven a 718 Boxster S, and (i) it doesn't sound as bad as they are making out or as it sounds on YouTube, (ii) it is beautifully made, and, crucially (iii) at road speeds, on roads, and in road conditions, there is basically no lag, the throttle response is great and the engine is fantastic.
I think if you say a car is terrible because, in theory, its predecessor has more "drama" over 7,000rpm, then you're missing out. And a lot of the views expressed on the model by people on the internet are from people who haven't actually seen / driven one yet.
Give the thing a chance!!
I think the last paragraph of Car and Driver's review sums up the feelings being expressed both here on PH and by the journos:
The engineers behind the new Cayman S should be proud. It’s demonstrably better than its predecessor in pretty much every measurable metric. It’s only when we come to the less quantifiable matter of soul that we have to report continued concern. Sports cars aren’t bought for the same rational criteria as minivans, and we’ll fully understand if you’re planning to cryogenically preserve a late-period 3.4-liter Cayman S as your personal apogee of the modern sports car. But the 718 is a compelling reason to be cheerful about the future.
Full review here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-porsche-7...
I am pretty cheerful that mine is arriving in October.
The engineers behind the new Cayman S should be proud. It’s demonstrably better than its predecessor in pretty much every measurable metric. It’s only when we come to the less quantifiable matter of soul that we have to report continued concern. Sports cars aren’t bought for the same rational criteria as minivans, and we’ll fully understand if you’re planning to cryogenically preserve a late-period 3.4-liter Cayman S as your personal apogee of the modern sports car. But the 718 is a compelling reason to be cheerful about the future.
Full review here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-porsche-7...
I am pretty cheerful that mine is arriving in October.
I SORT of get it, but you're allowed to love a Jag E Type AND love a Ferrari 488, for example.
The fact that the E-Type has loads of 'soul' doesn't mean that the Ferrari isn't a better car - and loving one doesn't mean you're not allowed to love the other.
I think lots of this is just an aversion to change, more than anything else.
The fact that the E-Type has loads of 'soul' doesn't mean that the Ferrari isn't a better car - and loving one doesn't mean you're not allowed to love the other.
I think lots of this is just an aversion to change, more than anything else.
FourPotPorsche said:
It’s demonstrably better than its predecessor in pretty much every measurable metric.
Some of the figures are demonstrably misleading. For example the 2 litre car is quoted at 50-75mph in 5th at 5.6 seconds - that's over a second quicker than the 981S! So clearly even the 2 litre is more more flexible than the old S.... Well actually, not really. That figure is doubtless achieved by accelerating THROUGH 50 with the turbo spooled up. Try it from a cruise at 50 in 5th and it's a completely different matter - precious little happens with the turbo car for at least a couple of seconds (I have tried this and am not exaggerating). So, while the 981S is no ball of fire in those circumstances, it would actually outperform the turbo car. Accepting that when the turbo is spooled up the 718 is the faster car (even the 2 litre), in many cases - in typical traffic driving - it isn't. I haven't driven the 718S and accept that it may not be such an issue with it - but you can't take figures at face value unless you know how they are achieved.
Krobar said:
I just think this is massively exaggerated. To be honest, if you're taking your car to the 'crescendo' and operating over 7,000rpm on public roads then you are being a bit of a muppet, for the most part. I understand that N/A might be more fun to wring out on a track, but you shouldn't be wringing out a 350bhp+ car like that on a public road.What you actually need is the mid-range surge, and for that to be accessible even though you're stuck behind a caravan.
I do appreciate what people are saying about the engine differences, but I think there's too much exaggeration happening.
RMJ891 said:
I've driven a 718 Boxster S, and... at road speeds, on roads, and in road conditions, there is basically no lag, the throttle response is great and the engine is fantastic.
Whilst I freely admit to not driving the 718 I do chuckle whenever I read "virtually no lag" or "basically no lag" comments of journalists or punters. I have driven many turbo cars including modern models and ALL have a noticeable lag versus a n/a engine, it is a natural feature of a turbo engine. Yes it might be reduced a lot by twin turbos and modern ECUs but it is still there when booting from lower revs.And I am not knocking turbos, I have a 997 turbo - another car where reviews talked about minimal lag, instant power blah blah - the lag is small but its there.
That said I agree with you that the impact on reviews of ubiquitous turbos is overblown, the reason being none of us really wants them in sports cars despite their increased power and efficiency. Manufacturers are having to make things turbo due to legislation and regulations. And of course it is the most noticeable change so naturally is the key talking point.
Maybe fairer to review a car in light of how the engineers have delivered the ask, as from what I have read Porsche has done a great job within the confines of having to design the new models with an efficient turbo.
Adam B said:
RMJ891 said:
I've driven a 718 Boxster S, and... at road speeds, on roads, and in road conditions, there is basically no lag, the throttle response is great and the engine is fantastic.
Whilst I freely admit to not driving the 718 I do chuckle whenever I read "virtually no lag" or "basically no lag" comments of journalists or punters. I have driven many turbo cars including modern models and ALL have a noticeable lag versus a n/a engine, it is a natural feature of a turbo engine. Yes it might be reduced a lot by twin turbos and modern ECUs but it is still there when booting from lower revs.And I am not knocking turbos, I have a 997 turbo - another car where reviews talked about minimal lag, instant power blah blah - the lag is small but its there.
That said I agree with you that the impact on reviews of ubiquitous turbos is overblown, the reason being none of us really wants them in sports cars despite their increased power and efficiency. Manufacturers are having to make things turbo due to legislation and regulations. And of course it is the most noticeable change so naturally is the key talking point.
Maybe fairer to review a car in light of how the engineers have delivered the ask, as from what I have read Porsche has done a great job within the confines of having to design the new models with an efficient turbo.
As for the lower end of the rev range, I think the lag that - as you rightly say - definitely is there, adds its own unique character to the way you need to drive the car to get the most out of it (a bit like the challenge of keeping the 981 spinning to avoid the lack of power in the 981).
Horses for courses, but I don't think it's the disaster everyone is claiming it to be.
RMJ891 said:
Well said, and that is fair enough. I think what I mean is that, in the areas of the rev range where the 981 or a N/A engine would be ready to sing, the modern turbos are already spooled up and ready to go, so the lag specifically in those conditions is barely noticeable.
As for the lower end of the rev range, I think the lag that - as you rightly say - definitely is there, adds its own unique character to the way you need to drive the car to get the most out of it (a bit like the challenge of keeping the 981 spinning to avoid the lack of power in the 981).
Horses for courses, but I don't think it's the disaster everyone is claiming it to be.
Agreed, apparently low down lag is pretty noticeable as Porsche engineered the turbos to keep boost higher up the range so you can drive the turbo more like a n/a car. I like turbos, you have to drive around the lag just as you have to keep revs high or heel and toe to get the best from a n/a engine. I love the whoosh wall of torque in a turbo whereas others prefer the linear power nature of n/a. The 4.2 V8 in my old RS4 was a fantastic engine for example.As for the lower end of the rev range, I think the lag that - as you rightly say - definitely is there, adds its own unique character to the way you need to drive the car to get the most out of it (a bit like the challenge of keeping the 981 spinning to avoid the lack of power in the 981).
Horses for courses, but I don't think it's the disaster everyone is claiming it to be.
If I had the money I would consider a move to a turboed 991S, but right now head is saying keep the car that is holding value not one that will lose a lot in the early years.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff