R - first drive
Discussion
I see them as trophy cars, not really drivers cars, look at peoples collections on here and most are all modern cars !
Are people really into driving or just owning, or investing ! esp guys who seem to just have the new 3 Porkers the RS, GT4 and Spyder, but no older stuff.
They are just robbing the market imo.
Are people really into driving or just owning, or investing ! esp guys who seem to just have the new 3 Porkers the RS, GT4 and Spyder, but no older stuff.
They are just robbing the market imo.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 19th July 12:56
Porsche911R said:
I see them as trophy cars, not really drivers cars, look at peoples collections on here and most are all modern cars !
Are people really into driving or just owning, or investing !
Almost a moot point, given the scarcity.Are people really into driving or just owning, or investing !
FWIW, were it that I'd theoretically had the chance to buy one I would have.
Digga said:
Almost a moot point, given the scarcity.
FWIW, were it that I'd theoretically had the chance to buy one I would have.
would you if it drooped £20k the day you drove it out the showroom ?FWIW, were it that I'd theoretically had the chance to buy one I would have.
I think we would all own one to make £100k, but in real terms it's another over hyped car.
Porsche911R said:
would you if it drooped £20k the day you drove it out the showroom ?
I think we would all own one to make £100k, but in real terms it's another over hyped car.
I wouldn't be happy if that were the case, but on the other hand that's often the case with a new car of any sortI think we would all own one to make £100k, but in real terms it's another over hyped car.
Porsche911R said:
I think we would all own one to make £100k, but in real terms it's another over hyped car.
Subjective.Digga said:
Subjective.
would you buy one ,was the question if it were mass produced and you lost £20k like buying an R8 ?Many people buy R8 and loose £20k but it seems a bigger % want a car which is free or makes money, not great to drive.
don't get me wrong, it great owning the GT4, its been a free car to me and almost 12 months old and I can move it on and make £5k or what ever.
But my R makes a better road car and my 987.2 Spyder is the most fun out of all 3 for £35k !
AS you well know I think GT3 are over hyped anyway and could easily sell all my 3 cars and buy which ever GT3 I felt like, 991 RS inc, they just don't do anything for me as a driver, unless on track and these days tracking £200k cars is a £1k a go, the new rich mans game.
If I were a track addict I would buy the older Exige. (and did track one for 2 years and was great fun)
I've spoken to a couple who have driven it and they remain underwhelmed.
One likened it to a power packed 991 GTS. This is one hyped car, and I think EVO did it justice in it's review, praising the concept but were left feeling a little ...meh. The steering. whilst nicely balanced, lacked the feedback of the 991GT3 and RS apparently.
All agreed that it looked better, and less embarrassing to drive where there are 'other people about' than the RS, but for a hoon, the RS would be chosen over it every time.
It appears to e a bit of a curates Egg, falling short of the RS on track, and still too big and quick for a good A/B road blast.
No doubt, if the R was released before the RS, all the clammer, handwringing and hyperbole would have been reserved for the latter, and it would appear that this could well have been justified.
One likened it to a power packed 991 GTS. This is one hyped car, and I think EVO did it justice in it's review, praising the concept but were left feeling a little ...meh. The steering. whilst nicely balanced, lacked the feedback of the 991GT3 and RS apparently.
All agreed that it looked better, and less embarrassing to drive where there are 'other people about' than the RS, but for a hoon, the RS would be chosen over it every time.
It appears to e a bit of a curates Egg, falling short of the RS on track, and still too big and quick for a good A/B road blast.
No doubt, if the R was released before the RS, all the clammer, handwringing and hyperbole would have been reserved for the latter, and it would appear that this could well have been justified.
911R's are (mainly) snapped up by speculators rather than real enthusiasts. Which was very much the case with the initial 991 GT3 RS'. They are now a year old and production has caught up with demand so they are finding a new equilibrium which is around list price +/- a bit and now been picked up by people who really cherish and want the car.
I think the same will happen with the 911R. 991 produced is not that limited and i very much doubt that in a year's time from now they will not settle at a small premium to list. The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 is slightly different (yes i am biased). There are only 600 of those and allthough they were picked up immediately after launch they were bought mostly by enthusiasts (most of those for sale today actually have more than delivery mileage) rather than speculators - as the latter is a species that has evolved recently inspired by the low interest rates and hence the negligent opportunity costs of holding on to these cars for a quick buck.
So as great as the 991R is i think that if you really want one just be patient and for those getting one - you lucky buggers !
I think the same will happen with the 911R. 991 produced is not that limited and i very much doubt that in a year's time from now they will not settle at a small premium to list. The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 is slightly different (yes i am biased). There are only 600 of those and allthough they were picked up immediately after launch they were bought mostly by enthusiasts (most of those for sale today actually have more than delivery mileage) rather than speculators - as the latter is a species that has evolved recently inspired by the low interest rates and hence the negligent opportunity costs of holding on to these cars for a quick buck.
So as great as the 991R is i think that if you really want one just be patient and for those getting one - you lucky buggers !
Porsche911R said:
Are people really into driving or just owning, or investing !
With my lack of available time to get enough of a distance away to enjoy the car without constant traffic, I'd say I'm an owner, not a driver or investor. Hope that changes 
I do agree though, pound for pound, the GT4 is surely a better road car than the rest of the current crop, and probably would be had it not have been for this current trend for profits and returns. The 987 Spyder makes for a compelling alternative from cars of the last few years (in terms of vfm).
I am absolutely speechless that it could be compared to a GTS powerpack or 991 powerpack, whichever. I had a 991 C2S and it just left me totally cold. It had virtually zero character on the road. No Porsche GT3/RS/R car is comparable to a mainstream Porsche, other than they share the same badge. That is the whole point.
I only drove it for half an hour (the R) or so but it was enough. The steering is bloody great. I felt it had more feedback (which is the important bit of steering) than the RS and GT4. As for the 4.0 to be really sure, I would need to drive that again but I can't as it an invest.........sorry. What was I saying. No really, its really splitting hairs on the steering feel across all three or four cars. Yes it doesn't have the Metzger, which for some will mean it will always be lacking compared to those that are propelled by such an engine. But I really felt that the engine was one of its draws not one of its negatives. The gearbox is also lovely, as is the GT4's. it actually felt a little shorter in throw than the GT4. GT4 seems to have a longer plain. Neither are a bad gearbox. Nor is one less good than the other.
People will always have their views and there seem to be loads more on here who now don't like because they aren't getting one and because it is annoying that its now hypothetically at least, way too expensive. That is a shame but I do understand. On that basis I really don't like McLaren F1's and 250 SWB. Both crap cars. And too expensive.
But as for the finer points of the driving experience, it is hard to give too much weight to peoples views. Everyone sees and feels things so differently. Some people just regurgitate other peoples views and experiences. Fine, but I don't give that too much credence. Then there is ability of relative novices (including myself) to accurately articulate what they feel and experience in a car when comparably (to professional road testers) they have so little experience with which to draw on. Conveying what a car actually feels like is extremely hard to do so with total conviction. It is an opinion, but it isn't necessarily right.
I guess the real question is in a world where you could actually buy these things, which would you have if they were all list price? I would have the R. And I am really not talking up the values. I couldn't give a monkeys what it is worth supposedly if I vacuum packed it and sent it off to someones front room for them to stroke at night.
I only drove it for half an hour (the R) or so but it was enough. The steering is bloody great. I felt it had more feedback (which is the important bit of steering) than the RS and GT4. As for the 4.0 to be really sure, I would need to drive that again but I can't as it an invest.........sorry. What was I saying. No really, its really splitting hairs on the steering feel across all three or four cars. Yes it doesn't have the Metzger, which for some will mean it will always be lacking compared to those that are propelled by such an engine. But I really felt that the engine was one of its draws not one of its negatives. The gearbox is also lovely, as is the GT4's. it actually felt a little shorter in throw than the GT4. GT4 seems to have a longer plain. Neither are a bad gearbox. Nor is one less good than the other.
People will always have their views and there seem to be loads more on here who now don't like because they aren't getting one and because it is annoying that its now hypothetically at least, way too expensive. That is a shame but I do understand. On that basis I really don't like McLaren F1's and 250 SWB. Both crap cars. And too expensive.
But as for the finer points of the driving experience, it is hard to give too much weight to peoples views. Everyone sees and feels things so differently. Some people just regurgitate other peoples views and experiences. Fine, but I don't give that too much credence. Then there is ability of relative novices (including myself) to accurately articulate what they feel and experience in a car when comparably (to professional road testers) they have so little experience with which to draw on. Conveying what a car actually feels like is extremely hard to do so with total conviction. It is an opinion, but it isn't necessarily right.
I guess the real question is in a world where you could actually buy these things, which would you have if they were all list price? I would have the R. And I am really not talking up the values. I couldn't give a monkeys what it is worth supposedly if I vacuum packed it and sent it off to someones front room for them to stroke at night.
WCZ thanks for the compliment.
Cmoose, fair enough. Perhaps speechless was a little over the top, but when reviewing a car I think it's entirely natural to revert to hyperbole. But look I don't want an argument or a two week long debate. My only objective on this forum is too add value (to the forum not the price!) and share my views. I've driven lots of cars, owned lots of cars and in my opinion I'm better placed than most to comment on the driving side. Lord knows I've invested the time and money in making myself able to do so. People can knock it if they like, but honestly I just want to keep it simple and comment only on my personal experiences.
I still think the comparison of a GTS and R is a little blunt at best. The GTS and C2s are pitched at such a wide audience that it's no suprise they disappoint the more discerning buyers. But each to his own.
Cmoose, fair enough. Perhaps speechless was a little over the top, but when reviewing a car I think it's entirely natural to revert to hyperbole. But look I don't want an argument or a two week long debate. My only objective on this forum is too add value (to the forum not the price!) and share my views. I've driven lots of cars, owned lots of cars and in my opinion I'm better placed than most to comment on the driving side. Lord knows I've invested the time and money in making myself able to do so. People can knock it if they like, but honestly I just want to keep it simple and comment only on my personal experiences.
I still think the comparison of a GTS and R is a little blunt at best. The GTS and C2s are pitched at such a wide audience that it's no suprise they disappoint the more discerning buyers. But each to his own.
Porsche911R said:
would you buy one ,was the question if it were mass produced and you lost £20k like buying an R8 ?
Many people buy R8 and loose £20k but it seems a bigger % want a car which is free or makes money, not great to drive.
don't get me wrong, it great owning the GT4, its been a free car to me and almost 12 months old and I can move it on and make £5k or what ever.
But my R makes a better road car and my 987.2 Spyder is the most fun out of all 3 for £35k !
AS you well know I think GT3 are over hyped anyway and could easily sell all my 3 cars and buy which ever GT3 I felt like, 991 RS inc, they just don't do anything for me as a driver, unless on track and these days tracking £200k cars is a £1k a go, the new rich mans game.
If I were a track addict I would buy the older Exige. (and did track one for 2 years and was great fun)
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are such a tool. Why do you need to come into every thread and act like a negative little gimp.Many people buy R8 and loose £20k but it seems a bigger % want a car which is free or makes money, not great to drive.
don't get me wrong, it great owning the GT4, its been a free car to me and almost 12 months old and I can move it on and make £5k or what ever.
But my R makes a better road car and my 987.2 Spyder is the most fun out of all 3 for £35k !
AS you well know I think GT3 are over hyped anyway and could easily sell all my 3 cars and buy which ever GT3 I felt like, 991 RS inc, they just don't do anything for me as a driver, unless on track and these days tracking £200k cars is a £1k a go, the new rich mans game.
If I were a track addict I would buy the older Exige. (and did track one for 2 years and was great fun)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree with the above. PP, I was not knocking you personally, simply relaying feedback from a couple of people with vast car collections who are passionate about various brands who have been left underwhelmed. I would have loved one at list, but wouldn't pay overs for one, particularly as next GT3 available as manual if optioned (which I believe it won't be by many).Ironically, there was a Clubsport Cayman at a race meet at Zandvoort last month, I would have that over any of the 991 iterations. Stripped out, light, small, manual ....sublime.
pistolp said:
But as for the finer points of the driving experience, it is hard to give too much weight to peoples views. Everyone sees and feels things so differently. Some people just regurgitate other peoples views and experiences. Fine, but I don't give that too much credence. Then there is ability of relative novices (including myself) to accurately articulate what they feel and experience in a car when comparably (to professional road testers) they have so little experience with which to draw on. Conveying what a car actually feels like is extremely hard to do so with total conviction. It is an opinion, but it isn't necessarily right.
Don't worry, the same level of criticism and possibly worse was pointed at the Cayman R when it was released in 2011. 'A parts bin special', 'a marketing exercise', etc, etc. It wasn't supposed to be a limited numbers edition but ended up that way because the uptake was low because it wasn't different enough and had little power advantage over the standard S. And then when you came to drive one it was a little on the firm side and jiggled about on the road. And you know what, they're absolutely right....and that's why it's a fantastic little driver's car.This might seem a tenuous link to the 991R because the Cayman R when launched was very affordable (comparatively) and you could just go and order one at the time. It was never seen as an investment (and still is not). But I can understand where you're coming from because those little differences to the standard model make it a much more focused car and that's why I enjoy it so much.
Do you really think the next GT3 will be that cheap? I don't and I would think around a 15% rise in base price from .1
mdianuk said:
You may need to change your username again Demon with that comment
I'd absolutely love one of these, I came very close, but it didn't happen in the end, however, aside from the 918 owners this car was aimed at (for the collection), it has one main appeal and that is long-term value (dreaded residuals!).
For the everyday sports car fan, who maybe can afford one or two of this calibre cars, I'd agree with Demon and question why you'd pay double for a 911R over a GT4 that in many ways offers the same characteristics.
Combine that with the 991.2 GT3 which is likely to have both the engine and manual box from the R, you could save £50k and just rip the wing off!
Probably wrong, but you know....
I'd absolutely love one of these, I came very close, but it didn't happen in the end, however, aside from the 918 owners this car was aimed at (for the collection), it has one main appeal and that is long-term value (dreaded residuals!).
For the everyday sports car fan, who maybe can afford one or two of this calibre cars, I'd agree with Demon and question why you'd pay double for a 911R over a GT4 that in many ways offers the same characteristics.
Combine that with the 991.2 GT3 which is likely to have both the engine and manual box from the R, you could save £50k and just rip the wing off!
Probably wrong, but you know....
It was never seen as an investment (and still is not). But I can understand where you're coming from because those little differences to the standard model make it a much more focused car and that's why I enjoy it so much.
Could not agree more. What makes the car special is all the care and attention to detail and special components that work together to create a special package. But its precisely that which people are saying is contrived 'parts bin' and 'marketing' etc. For 134k it is an amazing and frankly exhilarating driving experience. For 400k it might be a bit disappointing. But not if you have more money than you know what to do with.
Could not agree more. What makes the car special is all the care and attention to detail and special components that work together to create a special package. But its precisely that which people are saying is contrived 'parts bin' and 'marketing' etc. For 134k it is an amazing and frankly exhilarating driving experience. For 400k it might be a bit disappointing. But not if you have more money than you know what to do with.
pistolp said:
It was never seen as an investment (and still is not). But I can understand where you're coming from because those little differences to the standard model make it a much more focused car and that's why I enjoy it so much.
Could not agree more. What makes the car special is all the care and attention to detail and special components that work together to create a special package. But its precisely that which people are saying is contrived 'parts bin' and 'marketing' etc. For 134k it is an amazing and frankly exhilarating driving experience. For 400k it might be a bit disappointing. But not if you have more money than you know what to do with.
Interesting comment about values. Having driven it, and having access to the RS, would you have bought this limited edition car for £200k?Could not agree more. What makes the car special is all the care and attention to detail and special components that work together to create a special package. But its precisely that which people are saying is contrived 'parts bin' and 'marketing' etc. For 134k it is an amazing and frankly exhilarating driving experience. For 400k it might be a bit disappointing. But not if you have more money than you know what to do with.
Cazooch said:
Do you really think the next GT3 will be that cheap? I don't and I would think around a 15% rise in base price from .1
I think the new GT3 will be £105-£110k and I assume the R was around £150k, so maybe not £50k, but still the point is that the difference is quite substantial, maybe 40% more.pistolp, wasn't having a go, just my view. Absolutely nothing to do with whether I could buy one or not, I just feel the GT4 and possibly the .2 GT3 will offer better value. There is nothing hugely different with the R; I'd still question whether it is raiding the last of the parts bin, as well as testing the manual for the 4.0lt engine. Still a special car no doubt, but reckon more expensive doesn't always equal better.
DMC2 said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are such a tool. Why do you need to come into every thread and act like a negative little gimp.
Post a view and stop Making posts personal, people agree with some of my post but you don't have personal views at them.Grow up ffs and stop ruin the forum time and time again with your insults !
I
Why do you follow my posts and just throw insults , I guess every section has to have a Troll.
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