997.2 GT3 RS.....sensible buy at the moment?

[Digga]

Fokker said:

Porsche911R said:

imo it's £15k over priced hence it's not sold

The last nicer one went sub £98k from an OPC with less than 1/2 the miles and that took 6+ months to sell, it's a very small market and the GT4 is a very good and more usable GT car for less £

£95k is the target price imo but that means sub 15k miles and bucket seats, other wise they just sit for sale months.

£95k won't get you a sub 15k bucket seat car now will it. Its the miles that will be putting people off on this one and yes, as a result its overpriced.
£110k for a nice low mileage bucket car which is rare as most bucket seat cars I've seen have been CS spec and 115 - 120k although about a year ago you would be looking at under 110k from JZM - white one was £108k
There aren't many Gen 2 cars about for sale so pricing is unpredictable plus there does seem to be a lot of GT 997 stuff on the market. People with this much money to spend will possibly be waiting for a 991.2 and if they don't get one, you'll quite possibly see the 997's selling again.

The other anomaly with this car; it's not shown on the website showroom.

(Unless I'm missing something?)

[IMI A]

Fokker said:

£95k won't get you a sub 15k bucket seat car now will it. Its the miles that will be putting people off on this one and yes, as a result its overpriced.
£110k for a nice low mileage bucket car which is rare as most bucket seat cars I've seen have been CS spec and 115 - 120k although about a year ago you would be looking at under 110k from JZM - white one was £108k
There aren't many Gen 2 cars about for sale so pricing is unpredictable plus there does seem to be a lot of GT 997 stuff on the market. People with this much money to spend will possibly be waiting for a 991.2 and if they don't get one, you'll quite possibly see the 997's selling again.

Spot on

[Matt p]

SignalGruen said:

Slippydiff said:

Cheib said:

Guards Red Comfort with Buckets. 32k miles £105k.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Nice overall spec.

Been on the market for some time now, Good colour (IMO), ceramics, buckets, begs the question, why hasn't it sold.

Another 2 months on and it's still there. Anyone know how long it's been on the market for or know the car ? Might have a look when I'm next in the area although would prefer a CS, there are a few on the continent that are quite tempting.

I was skiing with the 2nd to last previous owner in January when it popped up for sale. He loved the car and regrets ever selling it. His words were "no way are they £100k+ cars the market has gone bonkers" so I asked if he'd have another and mentioned yes but pay no more than £75k tops for one.

[Digga]

IMI A said:

Fokker said:

£95k won't get you a sub 15k bucket seat car now will it. Its the miles that will be putting people off on this one and yes, as a result its overpriced.
£110k for a nice low mileage bucket car which is rare as most bucket seat cars I've seen have been CS spec and 115 - 120k although about a year ago you would be looking at under 110k from JZM - white one was £108k
There aren't many Gen 2 cars about for sale so pricing is unpredictable plus there does seem to be a lot of GT 997 stuff on the market. People with this much money to spend will possibly be waiting for a 991.2 and if they don't get one, you'll quite possibly see the 997's selling again.

Spot on

Conversely, if the manual 991.2 GT3 proves a hit, it might cause the 991.1 GT3 to soften and hence the cascade down to lesser/older GT cars.

[Fokker]

Digga said:

Conversely, if the manual 991.2 GT3 proves a hit, it might cause the 991.1 GT3 to soften and hence the cascade down to lesser/older GT cars.

Its a good point but I dont think it will have a massive influence. As long as you have a warranty with a 991.1 you're fine and the take up with PDK is from what i have seen very good in terms of if people had to choose.
People have said that their dealers are getting between 6/7 cars each in the first PDK run and that the second run of possibly only manual cars or both will be more like 2/3 cars which is possible but I reckon slightly more than that but not a lot more.

My reckoning is that the manual cars will be more limited and we'll see more PDK cars just because of supply hence having less effect on the 991.1 PDK only cars.
I think Porsche also know that by making as many manual cars as customers want will have an effect on the older 997 stuff and Porsche won't want to annoy existing customers by devaluing their prized assets.
Its a balancing act - In my view, as ever, Porsche are listening to its customers and that's great but they'l limit the manual production.

[S1MMA]

Digga said:

Conversely, if the manual 991.2 GT3 proves a hit, it might cause the 991.1 GT3 to soften and hence the cascade down to lesser/older GT cars.

I'm not convinced. Why would 996 GT3 prices change? Would 993 RS or 964 RS prices change? The older cars inc 997 are very different, I don't think buyers overlap as much as people think. Someone looking at latest and greatest with all mod cons, infotainment etc is probably not the same type of buyer as one who is looking at the older analogue cars, which need money spending on them and which the majority don't have warranty. They are less livable, less drivable day to day, and aren't the "latest shape" or even close to it. This makes a difference.

If someone is in the market for 997 or 996 or earlier, I just don't see them being in the market for 991.1 or 991.2. It's a different car. The engine also makes a big difference, mezger vs modern - you either want one or happy to accept the other because you want the later car.

There will be some overlap, some who want a 991.2 but don't get one may think 997.2 GT3 or even a 996 RS for similar money, but I don't think enough to cause much of a market price difference. Put your hands up if you would consider older if you don't get the new model. This may be balanced out by some who sell their old model to get in the new one.

991.1 prices may be affected especially by those who want manual. I think the older cars will go up or down alongside the rest of the market. If the market as a whole falls across all cars, then their prices will fall also. As it is they are rare and desirable and have a niche following, hence they have held strong. Releasing many thousands of a new breed won't change the buying habits of those who lust after the older cars IMO.

[S1MMA]

hondansx said:

I really want to get back into a 997 GT3, but i'm going to wait, as i'm confident they'll be back to the old pricing of a few years back post once the Gen 2 991 GT3 is officially revealed - presumably at Geneva.

The guy who just sold the mega miles GT3 that hit the PH headlines should be rightly very happy with himself.

Did your prediction come true? New car released at Geneva, manual gearbox. How are prices looking? I haven't checked in a while to be honest.

[Digga]

S1MMA said:

I'm not convinced.

I can see where you're coming from - older cars are a very different proposition to a 991, but I still believe that anyone spending the sort of money that could see them in a 991 GT3 would consider one and the OPC warranty etc. etc. even if their heart is set on a Mezger 996 or 7.

If/when I upgrade from my 996 turbo that's where I'd be and so the thought process is one I'm familiar with. I may yet decide to stick with the Devil I know! (At the very least I've decided I actually need to drive a few GT3s before switching, so I think the PEC Silverstone GT car sampler is a must.)

I do think all prices could potentially cool, in the same way as they did in the GFC.

[GarageQueen]

just started looking on mobile.de for LHD and some very nice examples can be had for around 150K with low mileage. not sure where they were before but maybe softening a bit on the continent?

prices here seem to be pushing 180 - 190 K now which looks a bit unsustainable to me

[Cheib]

GarageQueen said:

just started looking on mobile.de for LHD and some very nice examples can be had for around 150K with low mileage. not sure where they were before but maybe softening a bit on the continent?

prices here seem to be pushing 180 - 190 K now which looks a bit unsustainable to me

I agree but I noticed JZM sold an RS a couple of days ago that was advertised in that price bracket that they'd had for a while...of course we don't know what it sold for.

The cars that are sticking are the more classic cars....JZM have had a couple of 964 Turbo's up for sale for a good amount of time.

[nigelonich]

KevinBird said:

MDL111 said:

That car is actually pretty much my perfect spec - carbons, light weight buckets, no nav and grey
Take off the stickers and the rear wing and it is perfect - who needs an R ....

Now sold

Now back on the market again at OPC Swindon. Has to be the Only 7.2 RS with a 991.1 steering wheel. Ticked through 20k miles now I see which has made the value rise.............!

[Digga]

Funny old world. I'm wondering if the allocations of 991.2 GT3s is drawing a few more 997.2 GT3s out into the market? Price does not seem to have been adversely affected though.

You still sticking to your guns on your prices from the start of this year? (below)

nigelonich said:

Not sure why I have written this but this is how I see it as its still a free world (driven or owned most):

996.1 Comfort: The start of the bookend GT3 Story and in lots of respects the most collectible even in comfort for a change. Seems good value at £65k.
996.1 CS: The rarest GT3 model? As above but uber rare in factory CS spec. No idea how much one is worth as you don't see many for sale in RHD....
996.2 Comfort: A step forward on the 6.1 but its so track orientated why have a comfort 6.2? Expensive at £60k...
996.2 CS: I own one today and I am very happy with it but miserable as a daily. Seems good value at £65k.
996.2 RS: Never driven one but seem undervalued today at £140k and had an identical Top Gear lap time to the Challenge Stradale for £60k less.
997.1 Comfort: See 996.2 comfort. £80k seems expensive
997.1 CS: The pick of the 997.1 and worth. £90k today seems right to me based on the 996.2 CS value above.
997.1 RS: RS looks for CS performance as they are the same cars underneath. £145k today seems expensive.
997.2 Comfort: See 7.1 and 6.2 comforts. £90k seems expensive
997.2 CS: AWESOME. As long as these are cheaper than a 997.1 RS they are decent value. £120k today
997.2 RS: AWESOME +1 but out of reach now at £180k
997.2 RS 4.0L: AWESOME +2 but at over double a 7.2 RS its a 'starbucks car' at best. The bookend of the GT3 story.

So buy a 996.1 comfort/CS or 997.2 CS unless you are minted and buy them ALL!

Appendix:

991.1 Comfort: Goes great but engine disaster.
991.1 CS: Goes great but engine disaster.
991.1 RS: Numbers seem to be bank rolling VW diesel gate.

Things seem to be rapidly approaching my jump or miss the train moment for a 997.2 GT3...

[996GT2]

Digga said:

Things seem to be rapidly approaching my jump or miss the train moment for a 997.2 GT3...

Get it bought.

997.2 GT3 is the GT3 I'd go to from my 997 GT2, it's the pick of the range for me. Only problem is when you're used to turbos they feel a bit.... slow .

[Dr S]

I run a 7.2 GT3 (comfort with buckets) as well as a 7.2 RS. The GT3 is hard to beat on value for money. RS on the other hand is just perfect with the shorter gearing, single mass flywheel and the improved suspension set-up - is it worth the extra over a stock 7.2 3? It's rather that the RS represents the pinnacle of 911 evolution to me and perfection comes at a price - hence it's also a keeper

[Digga]

996GT2 said:

Digga said:

Things seem to be rapidly approaching my jump or miss the train moment for a 997.2 GT3...

Get it bought.

997.2 GT3 is the GT3 I'd go to from my 997 GT2, it's the pick of the range for me. Only problem is when you're used to turbos they feel a bit.... slow .

It's nearly 'there'. Up until now, I've not wanted to finance my weekend/fun cars, but I think I've reached the point where I perhaps should. My turbo's at 502 bhp, so I guess the 3.8 GT3 might loose out a little on peak, but deliery is going to be epic and IIRC, Chris Harris reckoned they are faster than a 997 turbo between 60 and 120 mph.

While I remember; I thought I saw your car arrive at the Magnus Walker day at OPC Wolverhampton, but didn't see you there. Am I seeing things?

[996GT2]

Digga said:

996GT2 said:

Digga said:

Things seem to be rapidly approaching my jump or miss the train moment for a 997.2 GT3...

Get it bought.

997.2 GT3 is the GT3 I'd go to from my 997 GT2, it's the pick of the range for me. Only problem is when you're used to turbos they feel a bit.... slow .

It's nearly 'there'. Up until now, I've not wanted to finance my weekend/fun cars, but I think I've reached the point where I perhaps should. My turbo's at 502 bhp, so I guess the 3.8 GT3 might loose out a little on peak, but deliery is going to be epic and IIRC, Chris Harris reckoned they are faster than a 997 turbo between 60 and 120 mph.

While I remember; I thought I saw your car arrive at the Magnus Walker day at OPC Wolverhampton, but didn't see you there. Am I seeing things?

I can imagine that Harris is right, the GT3 is rapid, the way the turbo delivers power makes it feel a lot quicker even though in reality it probably isn't that big a difference. I just remember driving a few 997 GT3s and thinking "when's the power coming in" even though it was plenty quick enough my brain was expecting a more obvious sense of acceleration.


I was at the Magnus Walker thing, I turned up first and couldn't park so went for a drive for an hour to stretch the car's legs (hasn't been used much lately). I then came back and had a look around later, didn't bother queuing to meet him but looked a very well attended event with some great cars in the car park!

[Digga]

996GT2 said:

I was at the Magnus Walker thing, I turned up first and couldn't park so went for a drive for an hour to stretch the car's legs (hasn't been used much lately).

Didn't think there was another GT2 like yours nearby! So I'm not going daft then!

996GT2 said:

I then came back and had a look around later, didn't bother queuing to meet him but looked a very well attended event with some great cars in the car park!

Wasn't there just!

[AndrewD]

HokumPokum said:

I'm convinced the 991+ generation GT cars are never going to be the same as the mezger engine cars. I've always said you win some ,you lose some. It's just different so I simply do not think mezger engined GT cars will be dragged down by a new GT with a stick shift.

I'm very interested in this comparison. It isn't going to be easy as there are other factors than engine and box. but I am going to do it in depth when my manual 991.2 GT3 arrives vs my 997.2 RS 4.0

[nigelonich]

Digga said:

Funny old world. I'm wondering if the allocations of 991.2 GT3s is drawing a few more 997.2 GT3s out into the market? Price does not seem to have been adversely affected though.

You still sticking to your guns on your prices from the start of this year? (below)

nigelonich said:

Not sure why I have written this but this is how I see it as its still a free world (driven or owned most):

996.1 Comfort: The start of the bookend GT3 Story and in lots of respects the most collectible even in comfort for a change. Seems good value at £65k.
996.1 CS: The rarest GT3 model? As above but uber rare in factory CS spec. No idea how much one is worth as you don't see many for sale in RHD....
996.2 Comfort: A step forward on the 6.1 but its so track orientated why have a comfort 6.2? Expensive at £60k...
996.2 CS: I own one today and I am very happy with it but miserable as a daily. Seems good value at £65k.
996.2 RS: Never driven one but seem undervalued today at £140k and had an identical Top Gear lap time to the Challenge Stradale for £60k less.
997.1 Comfort: See 996.2 comfort. £80k seems expensive
997.1 CS: The pick of the 997.1 and worth. £90k today seems right to me based on the 996.2 CS value above.
997.1 RS: RS looks for CS performance as they are the same cars underneath. £145k today seems expensive.
997.2 Comfort: See 7.1 and 6.2 comforts. £90k seems expensive
997.2 CS: AWESOME. As long as these are cheaper than a 997.1 RS they are decent value. £120k today
997.2 RS: AWESOME +1 but out of reach now at £180k
997.2 RS 4.0L: AWESOME +2 but at over double a 7.2 RS its a 'starbucks car' at best. The bookend of the GT3 story.

So buy a 996.1 comfort/CS or 997.2 CS unless you are minted and buy them ALL!

Appendix:

991.1 Comfort: Goes great but engine disaster.
991.1 CS: Goes great but engine disaster.
991.1 RS: Numbers seem to be bank rolling VW diesel gate.

Things seem to be rapidly approaching my jump or miss the train moment for a 997.2 GT3...

Updated view:

996.1's have been stable in £asking but not shifting. Still no factory Club Sports to calibrate prices.
996.2's Most popular GT3 model bar the 991 RS at Granturismoevent Nurburgring a few weeks back. Must have been ten of them which made me wonder if its the GT3 you actually use. The silver £100k comfort on PH classified is £30k greedy IMHO.
997.1 Plenty of those and no change in my views. The RS isnt growing much in value and is probably on the slide.
997.2 Still the pick of the bunch to actually use but no decline in the RS model asking prices but they are hanging around a lot longer.

Updated Appendix:

991.1 GT3: I was behind one which the engine failed at the Ring three weeks ago which was the final nail in the coffin for me. I spoke to the owner at the bar later and entering Flugpatz at 9000rpm in 3rd pulling 4th the engine instantly died and dumped oil and coolant all over the track. Warranty or not its not what you need when you are pushing hard on road or track a long way from home.


991.2 GT3 Manual or Auto humps all of the above from what I can see so far but alas owning eight Porsches and currently two at the moment does not mean I have a 'relationship' with the brand so I cant get a new one. What do I reckon on value? A new one in CS spec would be circa £140k and I would see people getting £175k come resale or of course maybe more. Personally it would be pretty hard to pay more for a 991.2 than a 997.2 RS

[Digga]

nigelonich said:

991.1 GT3: I was behind one which the engine failed at the Ring three weeks ago which was the final nail in the coffin for me. I spoke to the owner at the bar later and entering Flugpatz at 9000rpm in 3rd pulling 4th the engine instantly died and dumped oil and coolant all over the track. Warranty or not its not what you need when you are pushing hard on road or track a long way from home.

Agreed, aside from your own safety and cost, there's the embarrassment of causing a hazard or closure on track and, potentially, the guilt of causing another car to crash. Awful prospect.

As for 997.2 GT3 - there's not much about for under £100k, let alone £90k.