Wednesday 28th September 2016

Fanning the 911 R's flames: PH Blog

Why don't we just ignore the 911 R?

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Should PH be providing oxygen to the debate surrounding the Porsche 911 R by driving and reviewing a car that, allegedly, nobody can actually buy? I guess if we were cooler we'd just ignore it and - as the conspiracy theorists have it - let the flippers, investors and Porsche dealerships count their money while the 991 cars fester in air-conditioned bubbles never to be driven or appreciated by true fans.

The gift that keeps on giving!

I'm torn, I have to confess. I don't think I've ever encountered a car that simultaneously inspires so much enthusiasm and outright hatred towards the brand that built it. I remain startled at quite how cross the people who feel they've been denied the right to spend £140K on a new Porsche seem to be, which inspired our April fool earlier in the year saying Porsche had responded by halting Macan and Cayenne production to free up capacity to build more. A ludicrous idea but enough to inspire some angry calls to dealerships and ensure I wasn't the most popular man in Porsche sales departments on the day in question.

For all that I still think the 911 R is a car worth talking about and, dare I say it, celebrating. Some will argue that's complicity in the hype machine and another puff of air into ballooning prices for 'special' 911s. But making a fuss over cars like this, the Aston Martin GT8 and - at a more attainable level - the BMW M2 is about more than the machines in question and instead fighting on a broader front for the kind of cars we like. The kind of cars we thought manufacturers had stopped building.

But if it means a return for manual GT3s...

If the brands in question ignored the tastes and aspirations of the mainstream buyers who sustain their bottom lines and just built the kind of cars a noisy minority happen to like talking about they'd never survive. That we've made enough of a racket they're willing to build a few of them is something of a small victory, even if not everyone gets to enjoy the spoils at this rarified level. The hope is that it registers with the boards and engineers signing off future models, platforms and powertrains, with a contingency for building a few manuals and enthusiast specials factored in where it might not have been before.

So, with apologies to the haters, we will still write about the R. And if you don't like that it's quite easy to avoid - it's the one with the stripes on.

 

[Ex Boy Racer]

I must admit, the motives of Porsche are still very confusing. They have produced a car that is popular, consolidates their reputation, gets them loads of kudos in the press and then make it limited edition. Why?
Extra volume means more profit, so it can't be financial. They have spent the money developing it, so the more they can sell surely the better. It's pretty much bespoke so they won't be left with loads unsold by making a large batch that is unwanted.
So, why? Why do it this way?
It would be great if PH (or any other car media) spoke with Porsche and got their reasons for it. I would like to know, just for interest's sake. And it might take some of the flack off Porsche if they told us and we could understand.

[justboxsters]

I'll tell you why. It's to prop up the residual values of there entire range.

Meaning you can finance any Porsche, no matter how ludicrously priced for a "sensible" monthly figure. Safe in the knowledge some muppet will pay over the odds for a used car at the end of the deal.

These dream cars like the R, are simply high-end aspiration devices designed to drive sales of Porches regular models. Like an RS6 is to the majority of sale that are a 2.0TDI S-Line with 20" wheels.

This car bubble we're in will all fall on ints face soon enough. Especially seen as young people just don't have the car-fanantsism pre-millennials had. What happened to 50% depreciation in 3 years? Now they're selling more new cars than ever, HOW can used prices remain strong.

They can't is the simple answer. It'll be like the rush on Northern Rock soon. I used to love Porsche. But I hate everything about them now.

Edited by justboxsters on Wednesday 28th September 11:22

Edited by justboxsters on Wednesday 28th September 11:22

[swisstoni]

Why don't 'normal' 911s sound like this?
Not a trick question - I know very little about them.

[rodericb]

Haha, funny thing about the noisy minority as it is probably that which saved the 911 in the 1980's! So to ignore the noisy minority now would be slightly hypocritical as without the noisy minority back then they'd have long since dropped the 911.

[AshBurrows]

This is an article?! Christ.

[daveco]

swisstoni said:

Why don't 'normal' 911s sound like this?
Not a trick question - I know very little about them.

You'd have to remove a lot of sound deadening, add an expensive sports exhaust and a super light flywheel, and then you'd be close enough to it! And about 10 grand worse off

I still pine for a 911. I recall Rowan Atkinson's article on the AM Vantage of the 80's, where as soon as they left the factory their residuals sky rocketed. Ten year later those same cars could be had for a quarter of the price.

Considering it is likely that a recession will hit sometime in the next two years I would say to many to hold out buying until then.

[Carl_Manchester]

Ex Boy Racer said:

So, why? Why do it this way?

a) keep your top engineers and designers busy
b) to provide a poster child which can be wheeled out at events such as Goodwood
c) to generate media articles such as this one (groans).

They will then try and sell higher margin cars on the back of it.

I think the car is a sad parody of the Porsche brand and one that one started its decline from 2011.

i.e. its the 911 the engineers want to build and sell to enthusiasts but Porsche management won't let them, they would sooner sell something inferior for a higher margin.

[E65Ross]

justboxsters said:

These dream cars like the R, are simply high-end aspiration devices designed to drive sales of Porches regular models. Like an RS6 is to the majority of sale that are a 2.0TDI S-Line with 20" wheels.

Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!

[WCZ]

E65Ross said:

Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!

I disagree

[alock]

It's a car designed for the British market. To get one new you had to join a queue.

[Krikkit]

Carl_Manchester said:

i.e. its the 911 the engineers want to build and sell to enthusiasts but Porsche management won't let them, they would sooner sell something inferior for a higher margin.

It might be the one they want to build, but years of sales experience shows that the 911 most people want to buy is the PDK one with all the toys. Enthusiasts are a small minority, even at the rarified level of £100k Porsches.

[rampageturke]

E65Ross said:

Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!

The s-line amg-line st-line and all those exist for a reason, people want the sportier look, maybe they don't know what an RS6 is, but they sure as hell know what one looks like, and it looks like the s-line

[tuffer]

alock said:

It's a car designed for the British market. To get one new you had to join a queue.

Not really a queue, more of an invite only.

[tuffer]

swisstoni said:

Why don't 'normal' 911s sound like this?
Not a trick question - I know very little about them.

Because they are all now Turbocharged.

[subirg]

It's just a 911 parts bin special. Amazing that so many punters are falling over themselves to get one. Or at least they were at the beginning. Second and third owners are the ones who will take the big bath on these 'investment' grade cars. They are not cars. They are assets. A complete waste of enthusiast time worrying about this.

[Impasse]

AshBurrows said:

This is an article?! Christ.

Yep, another day another Porsche Advertorial. Except this time it isn't about a car, it's a notification that there may be another advertorial coming soon. Thing is, we all knew that would always be the case.

[VVOODY]

WCZ said:

E65Ross said:

Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!

I disagree

Not most but certainly a good chunk, Premium brands are purchased by a huge number of non-car people. I have come accross a number of people who drive "top of the range Audis"....which are fitted with 2.0 TDI motor

[The Surveyor]

subirg said:

It's just a 911 parts bin special. Amazing that so many punters are falling over themselves to get one. Or at least they were at the beginning. Second and third owners are the ones who will take the big bath on these 'investment' grade cars. They are not cars. They are assets. A complete waste of enthusiast time worrying about this.

No, its worse than that. As well as being just automotive assets, it shows the world just how good a car Porsche could make and sell, but that they don't feel their normal customers are worthy.

They should build the car and sell it to whoever wants to buy it. Make it expensive, but make as many as the market determines IMHO

[E65Ross]

VVOODY said:

WCZ said:

E65Ross said:

Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!

I disagree

Not most but certainly a good chunk, Premium brands are purchased by a huge number of non-car people. I have come accross a number of people who drive "top of the range Audis"....which are fitted with 2.0 TDI motor

The fact that they think they're 2.0 tdi is top of the range would suggest they don't know about the RS4/6 models, no?

[J4CKO]

Remember football stickers when you were a kid, you always got a pocketful of some Argentinean player with daft hair but for the life of you Glenn Hoddle was eluding you, oh and the gold one that had a graphic of a football with red and yellow trails behind it,

Well, like the football sticker thing, rumour gets round that a specific one is rare and valuable, it creates a buzz and Porsche are manipulating it like Panini did back in 1982, its the same bloody thing with some minor (in the scheme of things) variations, so they are playing the punters like there is no tomorrow, Panini could print equal Ray Wilkins and Jose whatever, but they dont, Porsche could make all 911's R's but they dont, to build the mystique and want for that one, to create publicity.

Then there is whether the car is actually any good, of course it is but it isnt perhaps the second coming some would have us believe, its a Porsche 911, its a car.

Then there is the Veruca Salt Factor "Daddy, I want an Oompah Loompah", i.e. you want what someone tells you you cant have.

Then there is it being a version for the Cognoscenti, having a 911 is good enough for a lot, but actually I really need the ultimate one, stripped out and ready for a track it will probably never see.

Then there is getting something that other people dont have.

Porsche know that if they produce too many of them if will negatively affect the whole situation, they are masters at it and dont want to kill the Golden Goose (second Willy Wonka Reference in one post !)


I have seen this with my kids, buy a few packets of something like crisps, hot property, will fight over them and make a big deal, buy a big box, they have a few and then get bored and if there is no competition fromt he other two they lose interest and they go stale, its just basic human nature, Porsche are playing buyers like there is no tomorrow.

My thinking, if you cant afford or cant get hold of one (I cant afford one) would be to perhaps not listen too much to how magical it is, look for alternatives, go your own way, make some choice modifications to another model that you enjoy, 140 grand buys a lot of enjoyment !