Wednesday 30th November 2016

Pan-European fast charging network plan confirmed

Ford, VW, BMW and Daimler to collaborate on a new European fast-charging network - the move EVs need?

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It's not often you hear of rival manufacturers working together on a project, particularly when said project doesn't even involve a new car. This is perhaps what makes today's agreement between Ford, VW, BMW and Daimler all the more significant, as it will benefit all sorts of customers and looks like beginning to address one of the big EV hurdles.

The four brands (VW including Audi and Porsche also) will commence work next year on "about 400" motorway charging points across Europe, with power levels up to 350kW. This should reduce charging times substantially, the overall aim of course to make long distance EV travel a realistic (and easy) prospect. The plan is described in the press material as "an important step towards facilitating mass-market BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) adoption."

The network will be built on Combined Charging System (CCS) technology, said to offer "the next level of capacity for DC fast charging". The claim is that thousands of stations will be available by 2020.

Sounds like big news then, particularly with a new range of EVs like the Jaguar I-Pace and Porsche Mission-E due in the next few years. How much more attractive does an EV become with the promise of hundreds more charging points?

Comment from the manufacturers has understandably been positive, BMW's Harald Kruger saying the proposed network "provides motorists with another strong argument to move towards electric mobility". Audi Chairman Rupert Stadler added: "With this cooperation we want to boost a broader market adoption of e-mobility and speed up the shift towards emission-free driving."

No doubt this is a big signal of intent from these prominent manufacturers, the move to EVs arguably taking a significant step forward with this agreement. Expect plenty more to follow in the coming months!

[bluerainer101]

Surely as good as this news is it's a bit short termish in the grand scheme of things. Would be better if we heard more about hydrogen vehicles and advances in that area of things, granted you've to put a lot of energy in to get hyrogen out but surely that's why we need advancements and car companies diverting more money and attention to this.

[jamespink]

I think the big players have finally woken up to a, Tessla, who will spank them in every sector unless they pull their fingers out and b, to the fact that unless they address the fast charging station issue (the others cant use the Tessla sites) there will be no demand for the cars produced at such vast R&D expense. The circle has to be complete before more than 1% of the buying public commits. It's a multi billion pound chicken and egg scenario.

[NDNDNDND]

You know how bad it can be waiting in a queue at a petrol station?

Can you imagine how much worse it will be having to queue for a charging station?

The future is coming, and it'll involve a lot of hanging around killing time on industrial estates...

[Burwood]

NDNDNDND said:

You know how bad it can be waiting in a queue at a petrol station?

Can you imagine how much worse it will be having to queue for a charging station?

The future is coming, and it'll involve a lot of hanging around killing time on industrial estates...

agreed but i believe they are working on inductive systems which do not require cables.

[Ollywood]

Burwood said:

NDNDNDND said:

You know how bad it can be waiting in a queue at a petrol station?

Can you imagine how much worse it will be having to queue for a charging station?

The future is coming, and it'll involve a lot of hanging around killing time on industrial estates...

agreed but i believe they are working on inductive systems which do not require cables.

Porsche said they are aiming for a 15 min full recharge and they have managed to charge an iPhone in 30s so I think they will quicker than we think and also it is quite easy to convert existing parking bays at the service station into charging stations. There will be queues for the petrol stations....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-259...

Also they do think that fuel cell is a better solution but batteries are making so much progress it might win out in the short term.

[kambites]

NDNDNDND said:

You know how bad it can be waiting in a queue at a petrol station?

Can you imagine how much worse it will be having to queue for a charging station?

The future is coming, and it'll involve a lot of hanging around killing time on industrial estates...

For when I buy an EV, it's a good job I have a "charging station" in my garage for the 99% of journeys where I wouldn't need to charge on the go.

But yes, we're a long way from the situation where people regularly doing 300+ miles a day will be running EVs.

[shalmaneser]

An interesting graphic comparing battery and hydrogen power.

I initially thought hydrogen might be the answer too but I've changed my mind over the past few years. I think batteries are probably where it's at.

Especially given that the research pressure on battery development means that batteries will probably continue to outperform hydrogen for the foreseeable future.

No doubt fuel cells will have certain specialized uses but not for motor vehicles I'd have thought.

[NDNDNDND]

kambites said:

NDNDNDND said:

You know how bad it can be waiting in a queue at a petrol station?

Can you imagine how much worse it will be having to queue for a charging station?

The future is coming, and it'll involve a lot of hanging around killing time on industrial estates...

For when I buy an EV, it's a good job I have a "charging station" in my garage for the 99% of journeys where I wouldn't need to charge on the go.

But yes, we're a long way from the situation where people regularly doing 300+ miles a day will be running EVs.

Well, yes - but there's only so many people with a nice, convenient place to charge their car each night. For those who don't have somewhere convenient to park, once or twice week will be spent twiddling their thumbs on an industrial estate for an hour or so on the way home waiting for their car to charge so they can continue to get to work.

Hell, maybe when cars are autonomous they can all go and queue up at charging points on their own. Won't that be nice.

[AW10]

Interesting to note that it's the German manufacturers - not a French, Italian, Swedish or British one mentioned. Here's betting the highest percentage will be installed in Germany initially.

[anonymous-user]

[quote]once or twice week will be spent twiddling their thumbs on an industrial estate for an hour or so on the way home waiting for their car to charge so they can continue to get to work.
[/quote]

Or at the likes of the Supermarket during the weekly shop?

[mikEsprit]

I would think some sort of battery exchange would be far more practical and quicker than charging stations.

[suffolk009]

Maybe starbucks and other coffee chains could install some. Half a reason to go visit them then.

[Jerry Can]

the future of the car industry is is about to go in two ways.

Manufacturers' mainstays of production - things that keep the volume up and the plants fully operational, will be building 'mobility solutions':- autonomous drive, EV's using open source software. The scenario in 2040 will be that 'mobility solution' ownership will be low to non-existent, instead you will book your transportation and it will arrive at your home at the agreed time. You will then type in the destination into the centre console, grab the 'dead mans handle' and it will drive you to your pre-programmed drop off point. Large depots full of recharging EV's will be required by fleets to service this need.

The issue the car industry faces is - if a customer won't be driving it, will he care what he gets into? As you e-book your mobility solution, will you care if it a Kia, Ford or BMW? Transport will be about what the inside of the EV is like, what features it has, rather than how fast it goes.

On the positive side, combustion engined vehicles might become more extreme as these will taxed heavily and will be for the rich only;and used for recreation. So high output, sports cars will be the brand leaders, hoping to influence people's choice of mobility solution.

[bluerainer101]

Really interesting. I may stand corrected.

shalmaneser said:

An interesting graphic comparing battery and hydrogen power.

I initially thought hydrogen might be the answer too but I've changed my mind over the past few years. I think batteries are probably where it's at.

Especially given that the research pressure on battery development means that batteries will probably continue to outperform hydrogen for the foreseeable future.

No doubt fuel cells will have certain specialized uses but not for motor vehicles I'd have thought.

[Evilex]

That white Porsche looks like a wheeled axolotl..

[qska]

bluerainer101 said:

But. It fits amazingly well into the "electricity storage" problem that renewables suffer from.

No need to shut down gas power stations when it's windy - just store the power as hydrogen. Admittedly less efficient than batteries, but much more scalable.

[Hellem1]

AW10 said:

Interesting to note that it's the German manufacturers - not a French, Italian, Swedish or British one mentioned. Here's betting the highest percentage will be installed in Germany initially.

Normal: little written about but both the German and Swedish parliaments passed laws announcing the end of registration of new internal combustion powered vehicles as from 2030. It seems likely that the rest of the EU will follow.
Hence the EV announcements from VW, Mercedes, BMW and Volvo. Get used to it us PistonHeads will be museum pieces sooner then you think, or will Brexit leave one island an island......

[Cheib]

"About 400" charging points across Europe ? So they'll be plugging in most of Tank and Rast's network basically! They have 390 Service Stations in Germany http://tank.rast.de/en/

I got very close to buying an ex-Demo Cayenne Hybrid last month....lost my bottle when I realised that a 7kw charger would cost the best part of £1000 to plumb in at home and thought about the charging logistics (if you can't charge them regularly its pointless having one from an economy perspective). With a 7kw charger the car can be charged in an about an hour and a half but the 7kw charging option isn't standard on all Cayenne's. Most cars need 3 plus hours to charge.

So I assume none of the cars currently on the roads will be able to use these higher KW charging stations...which means they'll be worth buttons in three or four years

[anonymous-user]

Hellem1 said:

AW10 said:

Interesting to note that it's the German manufacturers - not a French, Italian, Swedish or British one mentioned. Here's betting the highest percentage will be installed in Germany initially.

Normal: little written about but both the German and Swedish parliaments passed laws announcing the end of registration of new internal combustion powered vehicles as from 2030. It seems likely that the rest of the EU will follow.
Hence the EV announcements from VW, Mercedes, BMW and Volvo. Get used to it us PistonHeads will be museum pieces sooner then you think, or will Brexit leave one island an island......

No they didn't. They passed a resolution calling for that. It has no legal standing but has put the sts up the German auto industry.

I really don't see any issue. All they've got do do is build EVs that cover all needs at a reasonable price. No one's done that yet but I have no doubt they could do given the right motivation.

[Ollywood]

Cheib said:

"About 400" charging points across Europe ? So they'll be plugging in most of Tank and Rast's network basically! They have 390 Service Stations in Germany http://tank.rast.de/en/

I got very close to buying an ex-Demo Cayenne Hybrid last month....lost my bottle when I realised that a 7kw charger would cost the best part of £1000 to plumb in at home and thought about the charging logistics (if you can't charge them regularly its pointless having one from an economy perspective). With a 7kw charger the car can be charged in an about an hour and a half but the 7kw charging option isn't standard on all Cayenne's. Most cars need 3 plus hours to charge.

So I assume none of the cars currently on the roads will be able to use these higher KW charging stations...which means they'll be worth buttons in three or four years

And I guess very few people charge a hybrid, which for me never made any sense. Carrying two power plants and one fuel tank and batteries. Did help that the mpg figure is a lie for people to buy them.