Basic questions about classic rallying...

[SpecialAgentJoe]

I'd love to buy a classic car one day and enter a rally or two (well, an old car that can qualify for rallying coz 'classics' just seem too expensive nowadays). Thing is, I can find most of the information about car prep, kit/accessories etc but the basics seem harder to fathom so without wanting to sound too thick, can anyone answer the following numpty questions...

1. How do you get your car to the start of a classic car rally and back from the finish? Do organised rallies ever include transport of your car or is that something I'll have to work out myself if it's a really long way away? Would I need to trailer the car around or just drive it to and from?

2. What are regularity trials?

3. How do you learn about navigating? What are Tulip guides etc

4. Do you need special insurance for doing rallies or is it included in classic insurance?

I'm sure I'll have other questions but I'd really like to know these basics.

Cheers

[giveitfish]

I think this covers a lot of your questions: http://historicroadrally.co.uk/clubmanpdf/novicegu...

You could try a "Touring Assembly" first to see if you enjoy the basic format. These are done in any old road car, no prep or anything else required and basic navigation to try out.

I've not done a rally but have done a couple of non-competitive tours with the right attitude (i.e. not a procession) and they're good fun. Whizzing down little roads in the middle of nowhere with your mate shouts directions, feels exciting but all at legal speeds on the public road.

Edited by giveitfish on Monday 5th December 21:55

[velocemitch]

SpecialAgentJoe said:

I'd love to buy a classic car one day and enter a rally or two (well, an old car that can qualify for rallying coz 'classics' just seem too expensive nowadays). Thing is, I can find most of the information about car prep, kit/accessories etc but the basics seem harder to fathom so without wanting to sound too thick, can anyone answer the following numpty questions...

1. How do you get your car to the start of a classic car rally and back from the finish? Do organised rallies ever include transport of your car or is that something I'll have to work out myself if it's a really long way away? Would I need to trailer the car around or just drive it to and from?

2. What are regularity trials?

3. How do you learn about navigating? What are Tulip guides etc

4. Do you need special insurance for doing rallies or is it included in classic insurance?

I'm sure I'll have other questions but I'd really like to know these basics.

Cheers

A lot of the questions are going to come down to what your budget is and what type of event you want to do. But I will do mu best for you;

Most people drive the Cars to the event, though a fair proportion trailer them. the vast majority of events start and finish close to each other. Those that don't eg Rally of the Tests, le Jog etc... finish a long way from the start meaning if you are using a trailer, you need to get somebody else to move it for you. Its not normal to have the organisers deliver the cars, but on some Continental events this can be arranged ( for a substantial fee!).

A regularity section is a section of the event where the crew has to maintain an average speed over given distances and are timed at 'controls' along the way. Penalties are given for both late and early arrival at each control, usually by the second, but some are timed to the minute. Speeds will be anything up to an average of 30mph. The speed will change along the way to make it harder. Timing in the Car is done by accurate trip meters, special clocks or stop watches and speed tables. The word trial is often used but I don't like that personally, these are Rallies, a trial is generally either a reliability event or a totally different discipline.

Navigating is the key to these events, there is training available, usually once a year run by HRCR and HERO. There is one coming up in the new year being run by HRCR, you should find it on the website. these do help but are not essential, most people just jump in and get on with it. You will pick up the ropes after a couple of events and there are always people around willing to help. Joining your local motor club would be a very good idea. try to find one which is active in road rallying. (where abouts are you?)

You need special insurance for any motorsport on the public road. this is usually easily available from specialists such as REIS, Hegerty etc. Though the organisors will always offer you on event insurance (3rd party) for a fee of usually about £20.00

Edited by velocemitch on Tuesday 6th December 19:00

[Norfolkandchance]

My experiences as a beginner here: http://shoestringmgracer.com/classic-rallying/what...

and here: http://shoestringmgracer.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

[Allan L]

From the character of your questions it almost seems you've never even seen a road rally. Far be it for me to put you off a sport I've been doing for over half a century so apart from suggesting you volunteer to marshal a rally my best suggestion is that you find an experienced navigator and let him (or her) train you. I rally on VSCC events myself, but as my current navigator is quite involved with HRCR I hear a bit about them and they sound good.
As for trailering cars I admit we sometimes do that but in theory a road car that's fit to a hundred miles of rally must be fit to drive to the event. I only trail when we have to go a long way on a Friday for an early Rally start on the Saturday. Friday traffic is no fun in anything but is a little less awful in a modern car with a good heater/cooler and a radio for traffic updates.

The idea of joining a local club that does rallies is a good one but as running events on the public highway gets more difficult all the time, such Clubs are rare nowadays, particularly in the Home Counties.

Edited by Allan L on Tuesday 6th December 17:44

Edited by Allan L on Tuesday 6th December 17:49

[velocemitch]

Allan L said:

From the character of your questions it almost seems you've never even seen a road rally. Far be it for me to put you off a sport I've been doing for over half a century so apart from suggesting you volunteer to marshal a rally my best suggestion is that you find an experienced navigator and let him (or her) train you. I rally on VSCC events myself, but as my current navigator is quite involved with HRCR I hear a bit about them and they sound good.
As for trailering cars I admit we sometimes do that but in theory a road car that's fit to a hundred miles of rally must be fit to drive to the event. I only trail when we have to go a long way on a Friday for an early Rally start on the Saturday. Friday traffic is no fun in anything but is a little less awful in a modern car with a good heater/cooler and a radio for traffic updates.

The idea of joining a local club that does rallies is a good one but as running events on the public highway gets more difficult all the time, such Clubs are rare nowadays, particularly in the Home Counties.

Edited by Allan L on Tuesday 6th December 17:44

Edited by Allan L on Tuesday 6th December 17:49

Bit harsh... but yes I imagine finding a club in the South East might be an issue, but not insurmountable there are a couple of them running 12 Cars and of course there is Blackpelfry who run the Hughes rally in Kent. It's never easy finding a navigator either, so I would always encourage a newcomer to bring in some new blood.
I do have some sympathy with the OP asking basic questions, they are often the ones you just don't find answers too.

VSCC are not the best at giving out information, something of a closed club, until they need some marshals!.

[velocemitch]

Norfolkandchance said:

My experiences as a beginner here: http://shoestringmgracer.com/classic-rallying/what...

and here: http://shoestringmgracer.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

Good articles those thanks for sharing.
Here's one I penned up after my first year, its still on the Alfa 105 register site ten years on. I understand the sport a bit better now and rereading some of it, it can be a bit misleading. The White Alfa nearly died of its wounds a couple of years later, but I replaced it with a Red one and I'm now rebuilding the White one, while the Red one clings on after four years of abuse. I've switched Seats to navigate now as its cheaper!!!.

http://www.aroc-uk.com/105register/articles/ianmit...

[rovermorris999]

This may be of interest although lhd, it's been on ebay forever so presumably overpriced.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252500760700?_trksid=p20...

[Norfolkandchance]

velocemitch said:

Norfolkandchance said:

My experiences as a beginner here: http://shoestringmgracer.com/classic-rallying/what...

and here: http://shoestringmgracer.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

Good articles those thanks for sharing.
Here's one I penned up after my first year, its still on the Alfa 105 register site ten years on. I understand the sport a bit better now and rereading some of it, it can be a bit misleading. The White Alfa nearly died of its wounds a couple of years later, but I replaced it with a Red one and I'm now rebuilding the White one, while the Red one clings on after four years of abuse. I've switched Seats to navigate now as its cheaper!!!.

http://www.aroc-uk.com/105register/articles/ianmit...

Thanks I enjoyed yours too!

OP- if you just want to go fast without having to spend a lot on car prep and without having to spend a day driving everywhere at 28mph then try targa rallies which are usually on a disused airfield or similar and are just tests against the clock.

[boggissimo]

SpecialAgentJoe said:

I'd love to buy a classic car one day and enter a rally or two (well, an old car that can qualify for rallying coz 'classics' just seem too expensive nowadays). Thing is, I can find most of the information about car prep, kit/accessories etc but the basics seem harder to fathom so without wanting to sound too thick, can anyone answer the following numpty questions...

1. How do you get your car to the start of a classic car rally and back from the finish? Do organised rallies ever include transport of your car or is that something I'll have to work out myself if it's a really long way away? Would I need to trailer the car around or just drive it to and from?

2. What are regularity trials?

3. How do you learn about navigating? What are Tulip guides etc

4. Do you need special insurance for doing rallies or is it included in classic insurance?

I'm sure I'll have other questions but I'd really like to know these basics.

Cheers

Most of your questions have been answered already, but you can find out a lot more by contacting your local car club. You should be able to work out what you need without actually needing to join a club, but you will need to be a member in order to actually enter an event.

Not sure where you are, but for the UK most clubs who organise rallies (of any type) are affiliated to the MSA, and should be on the list here: https://www.msauk.org/Clubs/Find-Clubs

Some basic info from the club I'm in, Sevenoaks and District MC, about the types of motorsport they get involved in:
http://www.sevenoaksmotorclub.com/what-is-club-mot...

Navigational or scatter rallies are the simplest, all you need is a car, a navigator, a map and a pencil. They are also cheap, good fun, and a bit of mental exercise as well!

[threespires]

www.classicrallytours.com
They run Regularity events in France, very popular with beginners who progress to the tougher HRCR events but come back year after year as they are so much fun. [Biased of course ☺☺]

[velocemitch]

Bit disappointing when somebody puts a post up asking for assistance, gets a fair bit of advise from a number of people then never even passes comment it all.

[Setch993]

velocemitch said:

Bit disappointing when somebody puts a post up asking for assistance, gets a fair bit of advise from a number of people then never even passes comment it all.

Agree.

I don't quite understand OP comment:

'I'd love to buy a classic car one day and enter a rally or two (well, an old car that can qualify for rallying coz 'classics' just seem too expensive nowadays)'.

Classic rallying means purchase of a 'classic', be it in 'rallyfied' form or standard. Sadly both are expensive these days, often the 'rallyied' version being more expensive then standard version.

I hope the OP gets sorted one day and enjoys the sport as much as I do.

[dancarro]

It's pretty much been covered above, but don't be put off doing it.

The first one i did was a 'Classic Marathon' London tower Bridge to Prague.
We went in a group of three cars, E Type, P6 and I had an MGB GT.

During the rally (routes on roads with check points, and timed stages) there was a Discovery which drove at the back with 2x excellent mechanics to help any breakdowns, they are not there to supply spare parts, but they will make up a bodge to get you to the next hotel so you can try to fix anything over night.

The difference in cars and crews is astounding, like i said we bought our car 4x weeks prior and put new tyres on it (really) and i had some spare bulbs thinking this this is what they meant by spares - the look on the starting line up from the others was priceless.

We entered as a boys event to have fun, but I remember the car that 'Won it' this year was a Mercedes 300sl Gullwing, who had a fully loaded van and mechanic follow him around just in case it needed any work. He also had spotters who ran ahead of the pack to point which way to turn at junctions (seriously).

Yes he won but it seemed a bit desperate really.

We loved it though, nice hotel every night - too much beer every night - and some great memories.

We drove to the start from home, and drove back from Prague in 2x days. this was a bit nerve racking as the rally is effectively over so there is no support if you break down.

That said - Some entrants, hired people to drive their cars home, and they caught a plane. We had some amazing spirited drives with people in old 911's, Volvo amazons, mini coopers etc driven by people who just had to get the car home. I one case we did wonder if he had in fact stolen it! (beautiful Lemon yellow 911)

Don't expect to win, place or finish it. You will most likely balls it up on the first day with the guides - and you never make the time back up so just enjoy the journey.

Tulip guides as i remember just say,

100m turn left
2300m turn right

Make sure your speedo and odometer work corrctly

Yes there are W@@@#rs in certain car groups, but then we were probebly W@£$%^rs thinking we could just turn up and drive to prague and back and it would be ok.

All three of use made it - we even won a "WTF They are here" wooden spoon in the prize giving.

Oh christ i want to do another now!!!!!!!! So many funny stories.

[frogspawn]

velocemitch said:

Bit harsh... but yes I imagine finding a club in the South East might be an issue, but not insurmountable there are a couple of them running 12 Cars and of course there is Blackpelfry who run the Hughes rally in Kent. It's never easy finding a navigator either, so I would always encourage a newcomer to bring in some new blood.
I do have some sympathy with the OP asking basic questions, they are often the ones you just don't find answers too.

VSCC are not the best at giving out information, something of a closed club, until they need some marshals!.

BP also do 12 cars, ideal way to start.