New Pup - Feel Like I've Made a Mistake
Discussion
We brought our new pup, Hamish home a week past Sunday.
He will be 10 weeks old tomorrow.
The first week he came home, we let him run around the whole downstairs (with supervision) and introduced him to our existing dog, Haggis, a 10 year old Cairn.
Haggis has not taken to him and she has snapped at him a few times - she is not a very sociable dog since she got attacked aged 4 by a Springer spaniel and it changed her whole demeanour.
I thought there could be hope for a newcomer as, whilst Haggis is aggressive/defensive to other dogs when out and about, she gets on well with my Wife's pal's dogs (both Springers bizarrely) as she looks after Haggis when we have been abroad on holiday. So she does have capacity for getting along with another dog.
She also appears scared to come downstairs as he is a bouncy wee thing and has nipped at her legs a couple of times.
After speaking to friends who have a couple of dogs, we have restricted his movements to his own livingroom where his puppy pen is (he sleeps in here, it's large so he has plenty room to move around in) and we also only play with him in that room, and carry him to the back garden to go out for pees, etc.
We are hoping this will give Haggis some confidence back and maybe we should introduce them bit by bit, maybe starting on neutral ground once Hamish has had his jags.
He is also showing dominating behaviour and is very snappy. One website I read advocates holding him down by his chest (no pressure) so he can calm down when this happens, but I have read contradicting info on the Victoria Stilwell website and I have booked him onto an 8 week puppy training course starting January (when he will be 16 weeks) which follows her positive reinforcement approach.
He takes manic turns and has bitten both me, my wife and my daughter at different times. I am not sure at 10 weeks whether this is intentional or just a side effect of a boisterous puppy with very sharp teeth?!
Basically I feel like I've made a mistake bringing him home, we have no free time as he gets fed 4 times a day at the moment, and needs exercise, toilet trips, etc. Combined with what it has done to Haggis' demeanour and my wife has also been very upset with it all, I feel like it's the wrong thing.
But then I think, man the hell up, there's people having to deal with a lot worse than this, but having suffered from depression historically, it's sometimes the little things that can have the biggest impact (we have had a particularly hard year for family health).
I had hoped getting a new pup would be an enjoyable experience, but I see him as more of a bind/hassle than anything else at the moment which upsets me greatly.
Anyone else struggled with a new arrival, not bonded straight away?
How did you deal with snippy new pups?
Cheers,
AC
He will be 10 weeks old tomorrow.
The first week he came home, we let him run around the whole downstairs (with supervision) and introduced him to our existing dog, Haggis, a 10 year old Cairn.
Haggis has not taken to him and she has snapped at him a few times - she is not a very sociable dog since she got attacked aged 4 by a Springer spaniel and it changed her whole demeanour.
I thought there could be hope for a newcomer as, whilst Haggis is aggressive/defensive to other dogs when out and about, she gets on well with my Wife's pal's dogs (both Springers bizarrely) as she looks after Haggis when we have been abroad on holiday. So she does have capacity for getting along with another dog.
She also appears scared to come downstairs as he is a bouncy wee thing and has nipped at her legs a couple of times.
After speaking to friends who have a couple of dogs, we have restricted his movements to his own livingroom where his puppy pen is (he sleeps in here, it's large so he has plenty room to move around in) and we also only play with him in that room, and carry him to the back garden to go out for pees, etc.
We are hoping this will give Haggis some confidence back and maybe we should introduce them bit by bit, maybe starting on neutral ground once Hamish has had his jags.
He is also showing dominating behaviour and is very snappy. One website I read advocates holding him down by his chest (no pressure) so he can calm down when this happens, but I have read contradicting info on the Victoria Stilwell website and I have booked him onto an 8 week puppy training course starting January (when he will be 16 weeks) which follows her positive reinforcement approach.
He takes manic turns and has bitten both me, my wife and my daughter at different times. I am not sure at 10 weeks whether this is intentional or just a side effect of a boisterous puppy with very sharp teeth?!
Basically I feel like I've made a mistake bringing him home, we have no free time as he gets fed 4 times a day at the moment, and needs exercise, toilet trips, etc. Combined with what it has done to Haggis' demeanour and my wife has also been very upset with it all, I feel like it's the wrong thing.
But then I think, man the hell up, there's people having to deal with a lot worse than this, but having suffered from depression historically, it's sometimes the little things that can have the biggest impact (we have had a particularly hard year for family health).
I had hoped getting a new pup would be an enjoyable experience, but I see him as more of a bind/hassle than anything else at the moment which upsets me greatly.
Anyone else struggled with a new arrival, not bonded straight away?
How did you deal with snippy new pups?
Cheers,
AC
Multiple dogs that have not grown up together can be way more work than a single dog. Combine that with a new puppy who are also way more work than a trained adult dog and there is most of your problem.
Both sets of dogs will need proper training, particularly around socialising. You need to concentrate on enforcing the pack hierarchy you want the dogs to stick to. Who gets fed first, petted first, rights to the sofa, etc. are incredibly important to dogs and must be enforced with absolute routine. It will be normal for a puppy, particularly when it gets to the rebellious stage to push at those boundaries of pack status, you must stay firm.
Both sets of dogs will need proper training, particularly around socialising. You need to concentrate on enforcing the pack hierarchy you want the dogs to stick to. Who gets fed first, petted first, rights to the sofa, etc. are incredibly important to dogs and must be enforced with absolute routine. It will be normal for a puppy, particularly when it gets to the rebellious stage to push at those boundaries of pack status, you must stay firm.
I had Piran, a collie/spanie/staffy cross for 3 years and he loved other dogs and everyone (apart from my ex, a very smart dog). As she wanted a dog that would be hers as well, we got Vyk, a Jack Russell puppy. Piran hated him, not in any aggressive way, but completely ignored his existence. Vyk was covered in grass stains for the first few weeks as I would throw a stick for Piran, he would get it, then Vyk would grab hold of the other end and get dragged all over the field. If Vyk went near Piran, he would just get up and walk away. After about a month, Piran finally gave Vyk a sniff, then after about 3 months they became very good friends, pretty much inseparable, so my ex was annoyed that Vyk didn't like her either.
I don't have much experience of very young puppies but to be honest, everything you're describing sounds like normal puppy behaviour to me.
I think the separation is a good idea - can you put up any baby gates so that they can see/smell each other without being in the same room? Otherwise, you might want to look into a crate for 'time out' to give your older dog a break - but you wouldn't be able to just put the pup in without crate training him.
Please don't go down the 'alpha roll'/holding him down route a la Cesar Milan; Victoria Stilwell is a much better role model.
Gwen Bailey is also good - she has written a couple of books (The Perfect Puppy and How to Train a Superpup are often recommended).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gwen-Bailey/e/B001ITTP08
http://dogproblemssolved.com/
I think the separation is a good idea - can you put up any baby gates so that they can see/smell each other without being in the same room? Otherwise, you might want to look into a crate for 'time out' to give your older dog a break - but you wouldn't be able to just put the pup in without crate training him.
Please don't go down the 'alpha roll'/holding him down route a la Cesar Milan; Victoria Stilwell is a much better role model.
Gwen Bailey is also good - she has written a couple of books (The Perfect Puppy and How to Train a Superpup are often recommended).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gwen-Bailey/e/B001ITTP08
http://dogproblemssolved.com/
It is extremely, extremely unlikely that a <10 week old puppy is biting you out of aggression/fear/"dominance". If he was a human baby he'd use his hands, but he's a dog baby so he uses his teeth.
It sounds like you're a bit overwhelmed and dealing with several different issues. I'd recommend taking a step back, remind yourself that he's just a baby and will mature over the coming months/years.
Puppies are a complete pain in the ass. They all are. Of course you haven't really bonded yet - he was taken away from his mother and siblings one week ago! This is all completely new to him. He doesn't know how your family operates - it will be months before he integrates fully.
A few points:
- Don't pin him to the ground. I know mother dogs may do this to baby dogs sometimes, but we don't have their instincts and can't "talk" their body language.
- Haggis comes first. He eats first, he gets petted first, he gets played with first, he is allowed through the door first. If you're playing with Hamish and Haggis comes over, then Hamish gets put away and your attention goes to Haggis. Haggis was there first and he is not yet used to sharing your attention with another dog. This will come in the next few months, don't rush him.
- Crate train. Start now. Crates work incredibly well for many dogs. All of my dogs have been crate trained and grew up to love it. They choose to take themselves there any time they want some peace. The other benefit is that Haggis will see that he has free run of the house while Hamish is locked up. And it's somewhere safe to put Hamish when you need a break from his nonsense.
- Biting is normal in puppies and is a playful non-aggressive behaviour, but it's critical that you deal with it because it's not acceptable in a human household. It feels a lot worse with puppies because their teeth are like little needles. There are different techniques used here but IMO the best by far is to show Hamish that it hurts when he bites you. If you watch young puppies playing, they will mouth at each other until one squeals - that's how they learn the line between play biting and real biting. Our tolerance to bites is a lot lower than dogs, so it's even more important to teach them the limit. If he bites/mouths you, squeal (LOUD! like a puppy, it should startle him) and pull your hand away as though in pain. It can take up to a few weeks for them to remember, but it does work. Teach the rest of the family to do the same or he'll assume that they like bitey games.
If he's being a bit hyper and is refusing to stop biting - then he gets a "time out" in his crate (no shouting or anger. The crate is not a punishment). He'll soon learn that biting is counter-productive if he's in a playful mood.
- His relationship with Haggis will develop over time and eventually they'll both sort out their place in the family. They will do this without your input, you can't make the choice for them. What you must do is always put Haggis first (as above). If Haggis is at risk of hurting Hamish, then they need to be introduced slowly. Put Hamish in a crate or play-pen and let Haggis investigate in his own time. Don't force it.
If you just plonk a new puppy in with an older dog, they may get on great... Or the older dog may give the puppy lots of harsh reminders of who's boss... Or the older dog might take it too far and badly injure the puppy... Or the old dog may get seriously stressed out and lose their quality of life.
You have to make a judgement call about how quickly to introduce them. As long as you show Haggis that he is your favourite, he will eventually welcome Hamish into the family with open paws.
It sounds like you're a bit overwhelmed and dealing with several different issues. I'd recommend taking a step back, remind yourself that he's just a baby and will mature over the coming months/years.
Puppies are a complete pain in the ass. They all are. Of course you haven't really bonded yet - he was taken away from his mother and siblings one week ago! This is all completely new to him. He doesn't know how your family operates - it will be months before he integrates fully.
A few points:
- Don't pin him to the ground. I know mother dogs may do this to baby dogs sometimes, but we don't have their instincts and can't "talk" their body language.
- Haggis comes first. He eats first, he gets petted first, he gets played with first, he is allowed through the door first. If you're playing with Hamish and Haggis comes over, then Hamish gets put away and your attention goes to Haggis. Haggis was there first and he is not yet used to sharing your attention with another dog. This will come in the next few months, don't rush him.
- Crate train. Start now. Crates work incredibly well for many dogs. All of my dogs have been crate trained and grew up to love it. They choose to take themselves there any time they want some peace. The other benefit is that Haggis will see that he has free run of the house while Hamish is locked up. And it's somewhere safe to put Hamish when you need a break from his nonsense.
- Biting is normal in puppies and is a playful non-aggressive behaviour, but it's critical that you deal with it because it's not acceptable in a human household. It feels a lot worse with puppies because their teeth are like little needles. There are different techniques used here but IMO the best by far is to show Hamish that it hurts when he bites you. If you watch young puppies playing, they will mouth at each other until one squeals - that's how they learn the line between play biting and real biting. Our tolerance to bites is a lot lower than dogs, so it's even more important to teach them the limit. If he bites/mouths you, squeal (LOUD! like a puppy, it should startle him) and pull your hand away as though in pain. It can take up to a few weeks for them to remember, but it does work. Teach the rest of the family to do the same or he'll assume that they like bitey games.
If he's being a bit hyper and is refusing to stop biting - then he gets a "time out" in his crate (no shouting or anger. The crate is not a punishment). He'll soon learn that biting is counter-productive if he's in a playful mood.
- His relationship with Haggis will develop over time and eventually they'll both sort out their place in the family. They will do this without your input, you can't make the choice for them. What you must do is always put Haggis first (as above). If Haggis is at risk of hurting Hamish, then they need to be introduced slowly. Put Hamish in a crate or play-pen and let Haggis investigate in his own time. Don't force it.
If you just plonk a new puppy in with an older dog, they may get on great... Or the older dog may give the puppy lots of harsh reminders of who's boss... Or the older dog might take it too far and badly injure the puppy... Or the old dog may get seriously stressed out and lose their quality of life.
You have to make a judgement call about how quickly to introduce them. As long as you show Haggis that he is your favourite, he will eventually welcome Hamish into the family with open paws.
Edited by R E S T E C P on Tuesday 6th December 14:44
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