Cooking models vs hyper hot hatches

[Steve Rance]

Fair point. I have a Clio Trophy 182. It's one of my very favourite road cars of all time and I cannot think of any hot hatch that would beat it for pure driving fun. But my 911's are Better by a margin. Mainly because of the reward and levels of interaction that they offer. It's the feeling of connection and reward that defines a 911 in my opinion.

[Harris_I]

Steve Rance said:

I cannot think of any hot hatch that would beat it for pure driving fun

You must try an Integrale one day, Steve.

[Patrick Bateman]

Steve Rance said:

Fair point. I have a Clio Trophy 182. It's one of my very favourite road cars of all time and I cannot think of any hot hatch that would beat it for pure driving fun. But my 911's are Better by a margin. Mainly because of the reward and levels of interaction that they offer. It's the feeling of connection and reward that defines a 911 in my opinion.

Interesting you say that as on the twistiest roads I can find the Clio is still ultimately more fun than my Boxster.

[VULCANT]

I have an A45 - it's great as a car that ticks many boxes. Speed, comfort, practicality etc. but there is no involvement at all. Needless to say my wife drives it and I'm looking to purchase my first Porsche.

[Scho]

My 996 4S was annihilated by an A45 AMG from at the traffic light GP.

I also found my pals standard Mk5 GTI edition 30 was quite able to stick to my rear bumper around north wales finest.

I don't think my car is quick by modern standards but I do think it's a very enjoyable thing to drive at any speed. When asked it can be pretty rapid point to point. I'm not sure I'd want much more power. Shall I hand in my PH card on the way out?

[nickfrog]

The things that have shrunk the gap between a shopping trolley and a proper sports car are that the former often now comes with surprisingly sophisticated suspension kinematics, decent torsional rigidity, proper brakes and tyres in a package that is finally getting lighter.

[Olivera]

Atmospheric said:

Autocar figured a boggo 3.6 996 back in 2002 in the 10sec to 100mph bracket, IIRC.

Wasn't that the infamous 'ringer' 996?

[hondansx]

ChrisW. said:

The Trophy was a great car ... I just couldn't get on with the seats and seating position of mine. I could make the car work, it just didn't fit me !

Seating position has always been a complaint. If you were that bothered though, some new rails and a bucket would sort that.

I am in agreement that the 172/182 is one of the great driver's cars; irrespective of price point. They are so criminially cheap that every Porsche owner should have one.

[Steve Rance]

Agreed. So much car for the money and decent upgrades are very cheap. our trophy has some nice upgrades and runs on Toyo 888R's. Perfect for the Suffolk lanes. Excellent compliment to a 911, Boxter or Cayman. also a reasonable investment and definitely on the rise - the front suspension rebuilds are not cheap but the dampers are very trick. Proper little drivers cars

[ChrisW.]

We are in fact back to the problem of the increasing size of the 911 ....

[GT4P]

ChrisW. said:

We are in fact back to the problem of the increasing size of the 911 ....

Not only the 911 for me it's also the cayster although the dimensions of say 987 to 981 may be similar the 981 just looks bigger not helped by longer wheelbase ,bigger wheels and a higher rear end. I saw a 986 the other day and now looks mx5 small compared to a 981.
As for subject I prefer a high revving non turbo hatchback without a fancy diff even if it only has 120bhp for thrills

[Geneve]

I'm also a big fan of the 'Dieppe' derived Renaultsport Clios - and I'm sure it's a case of the 'Cup' race series improving the breed.

Although, my personal favourite is the 2010-12 RS200. Not the fastest cars on the planet, but just about the most engaging fun for the money, and surprisingly versatile - whether threading it down country lanes, nipping around town, or doing 140kph all day long on the AutoRoute.

I did 90,000km in my current RS200 (Mk 3), and last October thought I'd upgrade to the new RS200 EDC Turbo (Mk4). Disaster - smaller capacity turbo, electric steering, paddle-shift gearbox, synthetic driver aids.....the magic had gone. Both my kids (BRDC rising stars) hated it and, after just 3 weeks, it was sold, and another nice 'analogue' Mk3 has replaced it.

In truth, even the best 'hot hatches' are not really an alternative to a 911, but they certainly complement one. This one looks quite nice - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/r...

[Sandy59]

I've never tried a Clio to be honest, but the Mini GP is a hoot to drive and was my 1st choice for a Scottish Highlands blast early last year.
Had it been a bit warmer it would have been the Spyder with the roof down though, it's also a real hoot to drive for sure !!

[trawler]

Yep, the mini is a hoot. The Mrs has one as a daily.

[ChrisW.]

GT4P said:

Not only the 911 for me it's also the cayster although the dimensions of say 987 to 981 may be similar the 981 just looks bigger not helped by longer wheelbase ,bigger wheels and a higher rear end. I saw a 986 the other day and now looks mx5 small compared to a 981.
As for subject I prefer a high revving non turbo hatchback without a fancy diff even if it only has 120bhp for thrills

And that's why I own one of the new MX5's in favour of a Boxster... insured also for all my children.

The GT4 is a track car, but I have to say, it feels more nimble that it's weight would suggest and it still feels a small car ... go figure ...

911 feels very big, and places the 964RS in a very sweet spot ... of course always IMHO.

Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 20th January 20:41

[GT4P]

Nice they shaved some weight of the new mx5 I couldn't believe it how heavy the old one was until my brother who has a 5 year old one told me!
Back on topic I use to have a vr6 corrado now that was a lovely hatchback of sorts not a turbo or magic dif in sight!

[ChrisW.]

And the G60 versions were extraordinary

I know somebody who owned one in Germany -- did 150k Km before he rebuilt the supercharger, now own a classic 2.5 Boxster, and thinks that the G60 may have been the car he misses the most ---

Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 21st January 19:00

[MDL111]

Geneve said:

I'm also a big fan of the 'Dieppe' derived Renaultsport Clios - and I'm sure it's a case of the 'Cup' race series improving the breed.

Although, my personal favourite is the 2010-12 RS200. Not the fastest cars on the planet, but just about the most engaging fun for the money, and surprisingly versatile - whether threading it down country lanes, nipping around town, or doing 140kph all day long on the AutoRoute.

I did 90,000km in my current RS200 (Mk 3), and last October thought I'd upgrade to the new RS200 EDC Turbo (Mk4). Disaster - smaller capacity turbo, electric steering, paddle-shift gearbox, synthetic driver aids.....the magic had gone. Both my kids (BRDC rising stars) hated it and, after just 3 weeks, it was sold, and another nice 'analogue' Mk3 has replaced it.

In truth, even the best 'hot hatches' are not really an alternative to a 911, but they certainly complement one. This one looks quite nice - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/r...

I bought a 2012 on a whim after seeing a pic of one here in an RS thread about a month ago. Very cool little car, love it. Reminded me again how great it is to have a manual after only having a double clutch box for the last year - so so much more fun.
It has to do autobahn duty at the moment as my main car was rear ended, but even at 170-200 it is actually not doing too badly, even if this is clearly not where it is at home (or the use I had planned for it)

I think this will be a very long and very happy relationship .... now the snow just needs to melt so I can take it into the mountains