Aston's New Direction & The Long Game

Aston's New Direction & The Long Game

Author
Discussion

James Alexander

Original Poster:

65 posts

96 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Anyone see the BBC 2 Paul Hollywood documentary last night ? With Aston's new direction and 6 year plan for the future, I can't help feeling that the Fisker 4.3 / 4.7 Vantage V8 and DB9 is going to skyrocket in value in the next 15 to 20 years.

I acknowledge DB9's & Vantages are somewhat mass produced (for an AM anyway), but with a little over 3000 (Vantages) on UK roads thats still quite a limited run compared to normal vehicles.

Also, with the new direction being quite a radical departure from the current models, it will be very interesting to see the new Vantage being released next year.

I'm not so sure the new cars feel as 'bespoke'. Certainly, my personal view of the DB11 is whilst it looks stunningly beautiful, it feels slightly 'German' inside, and has hints of a certain 3 pointed star !

The documentary was a good watch.....its on BBC2 on Iplayer if you missed it.



Edited by James Alexander on Monday 23 January 21:46

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all

James Alexander said:
... I can't help feeling that the Fisker 4.3 / 4.7 Vantage V8 and DB9 is going to skyrocket in value in the next 15 to 20 years.

We now know that Mr. Fisker had less to do with the Vantage, than was previously believed. Attributed to Henri Fisker perhaps.

With the end of N/A, and also the cars are certainly beautiful enough to be admired for many years to come. Skyrocket in value, well who knows. Perhaps they might ban cars with more than three cylinders from the road. My own is a keeper, so I am content to just admire and to drive.








Flugplatz

1,952 posts

244 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
James Alexander said:
Anyone see the BBC 2 Paul Hollywood documentary last night ?
With Aston's new direction and 6 year plan for the future,
That is an old programme from 2015 so only 4 1/2 years left on the 6 year plan now.

old phart

404 posts

109 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Didn't watch so flying blind here but I think the DBX is a must to get to market. Everybody else has one. And the majority I see on the road have a female behind the wheel. Instantly doubling the number of potential customers.

You're getting a Vantage? Then I need something to run errands in.

leerandle

743 posts

106 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
old phart said:
Didn't watch so flying blind here but I think the DBX is a must to get to market. Everybody else has one. And the majority I see on the road have a female behind the wheel. Instantly doubling the number of potential customers.

You're getting a Vantage? Then I need something to run errands in.
I am worried about the DBX as I see it from a different angle. If its being targeted for females, then surely you are halving your market ? Combine that with having all electric power (Assuming that is still the case) then I see very little demand, certainly not in the numbers that Aston Martin will be forecasting. I do hope it is successful, but getting into the market against the Range Rover, Audi, Porsche, Bentley etc is going to be tough. Unfortunately I see it as another Rapide project...........

Bincenzo

2,606 posts

178 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Like it or not, EV is the future (albeit not the immediate future). Once the range and performance anxiety issues are remedied and sufficient energy storage can be attained to provide BOTH range and performance, we will see a flood of pure EV on the market, and AM would be naive to miss out. Petrol engines will only be tolerated for so long, and of course AM will hang on to them for as long as possible, but there is an inevitability about pure EV that cannot be ignored. As for targeting exclusively women drivers, I think that is a misquote. I sense that female drivers will be catered for more in the DBX production in so far as the cockpit will be more adjustable to suit the smaller female anthropomorphic measurements. But it will not be made exclusively for women. Just my 2p worth.

hornbaek

3,666 posts

234 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I own two Aston Martins ( classic ) and have owned both a DB9 and a V12Vantage so I am a fan of the marque but even this positive bias prevents me from being enthusiastic about the companies future. It is simply too small and too financially frail to exist in today's market. The endless iteration of special projects distorts the fact that this company needs a volume offering in order to stay alive. The competition is brutal and coinciding with the launch of the new V8 will be the new baby Bentley which will benefit from the huge resources in the VAG Group. Where does that leave Aston. ? The DB11 is nice but it is nowhere as groundbreaking as the DB9 was when it was launched in 2004. A friend of mine took delivery of his DB 11 after Christmas and it has left him stranded twice. He is due to hand it back imminently. Just can't be bothered. Right now the DB11 is in demand but when the first couple of cars hit the dealers again the true test for AML will come. Will we see the same that regarding residuals that have hit the Vanquish. Prices are in free fall and dealers refuse to take in used cars as with the V12S which seems to hang around the forecourts as well. AML needs a strong parent.

JohnG1

3,462 posts

204 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
hornbaek said:
I own two Aston Martins ( classic ) and have owned both a DB9 and a V12Vantage so I am a fan of the marque but even this positive bias prevents me from being enthusiastic about the companies future. It is simply too small and too financially frail to exist in today's market. The endless iteration of special projects distorts the fact that this company needs a volume offering in order to stay alive. The competition is brutal and coinciding with the launch of the new V8 will be the new baby Bentley which will benefit from the huge resources in the VAG Group. Where does that leave Aston. ? The DB11 is nice but it is nowhere as groundbreaking as the DB9 was when it was launched in 2004. A friend of mine took delivery of his DB 11 after Christmas and it has left him stranded twice. He is due to hand it back imminently. Just can't be bothered. Right now the DB11 is in demand but when the first couple of cars hit the dealers again the true test for AML will come. Will we see the same that regarding residuals that have hit the Vanquish. Prices are in free fall and dealers refuse to take in used cars as with the V12S which seems to hang around the forecourts as well. AML needs a strong parent.
Agree with all of that. The industry is too complex for small firms to survive. Parent with deep pockets is essential. Ford - please come back and re-acquire AML!

CSK1

1,598 posts

123 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
JohnG1 said:
Agree with all of that. The industry is too complex for small firms to survive. Parent with deep pockets is essential. Ford - please come back and re-acquire AML!
So they can make an Aston of an existing platform, engine and drivetrain like Bentley did with the Conti GT, no thanks.
They will make loads of money selling them to people who don't understand what an Aston is but it devalues the brand.
I think the way they use Mercedes technology in the DB11 is very clever, bespoke engine, chassis and drivetrain with a few reliable electronic bits from Daimler-Benz (which could be better integrated) but a DB11 is still a true Aston.

steveatesh

4,893 posts

163 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
My 2 pennarth is that EV is the way to go and AM would be foolish to not get on that band wagon. Their problem of course is being small and specialist they don't have the resources that a large manufacturer will and with tit the economies of scale technology can be utilised across.

My next car will probably be a Tesla or the Jag iPace looking at the cars coming to market and my time to change. It will be the Porsche that goes though, not the Aston smile

JohnG1

3,462 posts

204 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
CSK1 said:
JohnG1 said:
Agree with all of that. The industry is too complex for small firms to survive. Parent with deep pockets is essential. Ford - please come back and re-acquire AML!
So they can make an Aston of an existing platform, engine and drivetrain like Bentley did with the Conti GT, no thanks.
They will make loads of money selling them to people who don't understand what an Aston is but it devalues the brand.
I think the way they use Mercedes technology in the DB11 is very clever, bespoke engine, chassis and drivetrain with a few reliable electronic bits from Daimler-Benz (which could be better integrated) but a DB11 is still a true Aston.
Well, Ford did pay for the VH platform so didn't do that last time round did they? So why would they do it differently if they were to re-acquire AML?

DB11 is a true Aston Martin, body from multimatic, gearbox from ZF, brakes from Brembo, seats from Recaro, electronic architecture from Mercedes-Benz, engine from Ilmor, Cosworth and Ford, leather from Bridge of Weir and so on...

Bring back the blue oval!


hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
JohnG1 said:
hornbaek said:
I own two Aston Martins ( classic ) and have owned both a DB9 and a V12Vantage so I am a fan of the marque but even this positive bias prevents me from being enthusiastic about the companies future. It is simply too small and too financially frail to exist in today's market. The endless iteration of special projects distorts the fact that this company needs a volume offering in order to stay alive. The competition is brutal and coinciding with the launch of the new V8 will be the new baby Bentley which will benefit from the huge resources in the VAG Group. Where does that leave Aston. ? The DB11 is nice but it is nowhere as groundbreaking as the DB9 was when it was launched in 2004. A friend of mine took delivery of his DB 11 after Christmas and it has left him stranded twice. He is due to hand it back imminently. Just can't be bothered. Right now the DB11 is in demand but when the first couple of cars hit the dealers again the true test for AML will come. Will we see the same that regarding residuals that have hit the Vanquish. Prices are in free fall and dealers refuse to take in used cars as with the V12S which seems to hang around the forecourts as well. AML needs a strong parent.
Agree with all of that. The industry is too complex for small firms to survive. Parent with deep pockets is essential. Ford - please come back and re-acquire AML!
Does it have to be a parent?

Was the Mercedes tie up not meant to address this issue? A volume offering would turn them into another Porsche, arguably a rung further down the prestige ladder.

James Alexander

Original Poster:

65 posts

96 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Some very interesting replies so far.......

At the TESLA stand at Goodwood last year I was so impressed by the technology that I booked a test drive afterwards. Due to working such a long distance from home, I feel that the technology isn't quite there for me just yet, but I'm keeping a firm eye on the Tesla 3 when its launched..... the idea of zero road tax / emissions / servicing etc is hugely appealing.

EV is certainly the future of transport which involves huge investment / capital to bring to market....I can't help feeling that Porsche, Mercedes, VAG, JLR are streets ahead in technology already. Aston Martin would need to pair up with a larger company in order to survive but may further dilute the very nature of the brand / ownership experience.

As mentioned previously, the V8 Vantage I am lucky enough to own is a keeper.......and much like the W123 / W124 was the last decent Mercedes, the current line-up of Gaydon DB9's / Vantage's / Vanq's etc may be the last iconic Aston Martin's before they lose the appeal which makes them so unique.

jonby

5,357 posts

156 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
They can't win:
try to develop the EV tech themselves and they are too small to have the funds to compete with the big boys
get bought out by a larger firm to use their tech and they aren't a real Aston any more
buy tech elsewhere and they aren't a real aston any more
don't get EV and their cars won't sell
Develop combustion engines themselves and they both aren't big enough to have competitive engines and because they are developing engines that once upon a time had a basic block developed elsewhere, astons have Ford engines
buy the engines in and they aren't a real aston anymore
repeat the above for sat nav tech, infotainment in general, electronic driving aids, LCD dashes, etc


Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all

James Alexander said:
At the TESLA stand at Goodwood last year I was so impressed by the technology that I booked a test drive afterwards.

A friend of mine also had a test drive. All very good until he asked how long it took to recharge, using a 13amp household socket. A day trip to visit their relatives, would mean staying overnight, possibly two nights, if travelling by TESLA.




xnetco

172 posts

111 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
steveatesh said:
My 2 pennarth is that EV is the way to go and AM would be foolish to not get on that band wagon. Their problem of course is being small and specialist they don't have the resources that a large manufacturer will and with tit the economies of scale technology can be utilised across.

My next car will probably be a Tesla or the Jag iPace looking at the cars coming to market and my time to change. It will be the Porsche that goes though, not the Aston smile
I agree with that. My two cars are a Vanquish and Tesla Model S. Fantastic compliment.

xnetco

172 posts

111 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Jon39 said:

A friend of mine also had a test drive. All very good until he asked how long it took to recharge, using a 13amp household socket. A day trip to visit their relatives, would mean staying overnight, possibly two nights, if travelling by TESLA.
Having a Tesla I've not had this problem. I've completed 600 miles in the passed four days. A simple supercharger stop OJ each leg was more than adequate.

James Alexander

Original Poster:

65 posts

96 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Jon39 said:

A friend of mine also had a test drive. All very good until he asked how long it took to recharge, using a 13amp household socket. A day trip to visit their relatives, would mean staying overnight, possibly two nights, if travelling by TESLA.
My thoughts exactly.......they did mention you could divert 40miles to one of the 'Supercharging' stations which only take 30mins, but still, my fear is how many other TESLA drivers would be queuing up to use it when it becomes a prevalent mode of transportation.

Quite interesting to note from the test drive was that you could potentially travel the length of Europe completely free of charge at using their current infrastructure. Anyone thinking of seeing Europe - may be worth the finance at £90k (for the P90d)..... was certainly out of my comfort zone !

TKP

127 posts

90 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
James Alexander said:
At the TESLA stand at Goodwood last year I was so impressed by the technology that I booked a test drive afterwards. Due to working such a long distance from home, I feel that the technology isn't quite there for me just yet,
Search for Tesla Nurnburgring on youtube (the "8:50" video is by far the fastest) - I'm aware that the car was built for the US market and I believe it's an impressive uptake for a new manufacturer but lousy engine/batteries, lousy brakes and messed up ride means for me that Tesla doesn't stand any Autobahn test and therefore is out for Germany. I drive cars at the maxium revs for many, many miles in a row on German highways, I need to brake hard as an effect of that, I need (& love) to take high speed corners on the highway with 140 mph and for all of that the Tesla is crap.

However, I appreciate the idea of local emission and noise free transport. But then please with a good autopilot as there is no sense or joy left in driving on your own.

xnetco

172 posts

111 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
James Alexander said:
My thoughts exactly.......they did mention you could divert 40miles to one of the 'Supercharging' stations which only take 30mins, but still, my fear is how many other TESLA drivers would be queuing up to use it when it becomes a prevalent mode of transportation.

Quite interesting to note from the test drive was that you could potentially travel the length of Europe completely free of charge at using their current infrastructure. Anyone thinking of seeing Europe - may be worth the finance at £90k (for the P90d)..... was certainly out of my comfort zone !
Tesla have had a legal battle with another charging company. This has delayed the roll out of super chargers although this has now been resolved there is meant to be a huge roll out this year. So far I've not had to wait anywhere. Admittedly only two weeks. 😀