If I can sail a Dart 18 and a Laser can I sail an RS600

[Norfolkandchance]

Used RS600s seem excellent value for money but when experienced and successful very fast dingy sailors bought them to our club, 10 years ago or so, there was much consternation. I am not as experienced or successful but perfectly competent and have owned / raced several boats, including a couple of Dart 18 solo seasons. I think I'd be ok. And you can have a smaller sail.

Thanks

[Ayahuasca]

It is like asking 'I can drive a Ford Mondeo and an Lotus Elise, can I drive a Caterham R300?'


Yes of course you can, same thing, just handle differently.

[Burrow01]

RS600 is the tippiest boat in the world, but if you want to, of course you can sail it - but checkout the RS600 Facebook page for info on how many times you will be swimming :-)

[Arnold Cunningham]

Well - it's a bit tippy - but positively stable compared to a moth.

Burrow01 said:

RS600 is the tippiest boat in the world, but if you want to, of course you can sail it - but checkout the RS600 Facebook page for info on how many times you will be swimming :-)

[MBBlat]

A 600 has some static stability, the Moth has none, so the RS 600 isn't the tippiest thing afloat, but its close.

I looked into 600's when they were newish - spending most of my time in the water during a test sail put me off the idea. A Dart 18, or any cat really, has so much stability that the trapezing skills are totally different. A laser being a hiking boat is different again. So if you do get a 600 expect to spend a lot of time swimming.

Something worth trying is offering to crew an 800 with an understanding helm - if you get on fine then the 600 might be worth a punt, if not then re-think.

Me - I stick to two hulls.

[Sonie]

I went from a Laser to an RS700 sailing on a river.
I was younger and thought fitter...but didn't get enough time in the boat to be able to keep the mast in the sky so after 2 years sold it on.

The 600 is a lot tippyer as the boat doesn't have a chine to it. Depending on your experience trapeezing and where you sail all depends if it is suitable.

Loads of advice on the Facebook groups.

[Norfolkandchance]

Thanks for the replies. I do have plenty of experience on the wire on narrow monohull dinghies but looks like it will be hard work learning a 600.

[chrisga]

Sailing is sailing, theory is the same so why not. Depends how much time you have to practice.

I've sailed everything dinghywise from toppers to 14's to an occasional 18ft skiff outing including low rider and a couple of goes in a foiling moth. I won't proclaim to be fantastic in any of them but could get most round a course.

My thinking would be that in the singlehander trapeze boat the only thing that can react to the boat movement is you and when on the trapeze your weight is further from the centreline so things get tippy a lot quicker. You haven't got the buffer of a crew to make adjustments. I reckon the usual learning capsize on a 600 wouldn't be being blown over to windward but to have the rig come over on top of you as reacting to a gust is relatively easy, you just ease a bit of sheet, but if the wind eases off you have to sheet in (prob time to get a handful) but if you need more you have to swing in, with enough control to land in the boat and not have moved the rudder. As you swing in you would head up into the wind exacerbating the problem. The usual thing that seems to happen in a 600 learning curve is that it comes over on top of you and you get washed away from the rack which pulls the rig further over, boat bares away until it gybes with you still in the water but swimming behind it.

I found the 600 was fine when moving but could be a bit of a pig to tack unless you threw it in quick or could let off loads of kicker as it was quite difficult to not end up in irons head to wind. You can't go in to a tack half arsed or you'll be head to wind reversing back down the lake. The other issue I had was getting back in after a capsize. I'm powerfully built so the one I tried had narrow wings (they were available as most 90's boats were with wide or narrow wings for crew weight equalisation). I couldn't get through them when righting it from a capsize but they were a bit wide to get over as well so once over I really struggled to get in and get going again.

They aren't the devil many people make them out to be but will require time and practice. If you're only managing once a week you might struggle to keep your eye in. The class association I think has just changed their focus from hardcore racing to fun training days with a more informal racing scene. Might be worth checking out:

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/194296/The-6...

As you say they are pretty cheap so why not give it a shot for a season and see how you get on. Let us know how you do.

Edited by chrisga on Monday 13th February 11:53

[Cyder]

I used to race RS200's, Merlin Rocket's and B14's and the point in the previous post about committing to manoeuvers is a good one. On these tippier boats without a proper chine I used to find that the faster you went the more stable the thing felt.

I remember teararsing downwind in a F4/5 wind in the 200 (not an especially quick boat) with the kite up and it was so stable I reckon you could have done a jig on the deck. Similarly gybes and tacks when it was windy were easy as long as you committed and did it fast.

When we first got the boat we spent a lot of time swimming because it felt so tippy compared to the Mirror we'd had previously but one day it clicked that all it took was confidence and speed to make it stable and suddenly we were OK.

I always fancied blast in a RS600 (and a 300) but they did look a whole different kettle of instability!

[Burrow01]

Arnold Cunningham said:

Well - it's a bit tippy - but positively stable compared to a moth.

Burrow01 said:

RS600 is the tippiest boat in the world, but if you want to, of course you can sail it - but checkout the RS600 Facebook page for info on how many times you will be swimming :-)

OK- Fair point but if the comparison with the RS600 is to a Moth, rather than a Laser or a Dart, I think we are getting the point over to the OP :-)

Friend of mine has an RS600, and I know a couple of other people with them - they enjoy them, and there seems to be a bit of a community spirit building around them again - however everyone I know who has one is closer to 20 than 30, not sure if this is another indicator of the type of boat it is

Facebook page seems to be where its all being organised from now: https://www.facebook.com/groups/316067645076133/

[bracken78]

Used to have an RS600 and before the 600 I had a Laser 4000 and a Buzz. Both had fully battered main sails. When I started in the buzz at 15 coming from a Topper with a friend, learning to tack and gybe the fully battened main sail was something we had to learn quickly as this made us swim more than anything else at first, especially in windy conditions. Once sorted, sailing the buzz and 4K where no really problem. Moving to the RS600 by myself from the 4K made me realise the importance a crew running around keeping the boat stable. I swam a lot, much more than expected at first. The power from sail when the batters switching over in kept catching me out at first plus I was not fit enough to start with. Once fitter and with many hours in the boat at all started to come together. I kept the 600 for around 3 years and while I never mastered it (or got close..), I enjoyed it massively and pleased I tried.

[chrisga]

Cyder said:

I always fancied blast in a RS600 (and a 300) but they did look a whole different kettle of instability!

I've owned and sailed my 300 for prob the last 10 years. They are awesome boats - definitely try one and don't put it in the same basket as a 600 for difficulty. Tippier than a laser, yes, but nowhere near as bad as a moth or 600. If you get into trouble it will sit with the gunwhale in the water (on the wide bit) and is quite stable in that position but sloooww. They are relatively easy things to get around a course but difficult to get around a course quickly.

[Norfolkandchance]

Thanks for all the replies, clearly carefully and considerately thought through. This would be an occasional fun boat and used a lot than once a week. My interest was fired by the price - I could have a serious adrenaline shot in the garage just waiting for the odd blast. Plus I'm not very fit. So it's a no to the 600.

Contenders are a bit slow these days, aren't they? I used to beat on on the water

[chrisga]

Contenders are lovely boats, esp on sea by all accounts (have only sailed on inland) but hampered by their weight on shore. Not so bad if launching via a relatively shallow concrete slip but over a sandy/rocky/muddy beach or steep slip i'd steer clear.

[raywillden]

I'd say a good decision on the 600. I had one for a year or so, and never really got to grips with it despite coming from a Boss. It was great for the few times when the wind was right and I got round the corners without swimming, but this was not very often, and I got frustrated with it. I have ended up with an RS Cat16, as I can sail it with the kids and also go single handed, so kind of best of both really.

Surely single handing your Dart would be a bigger blast anyway, and you can still class race it if that's your thing.

[chrisga]

Hello from another fellow previous Boss owner....

[Norfolkandchance]

raywillden said:

I'd say a good decision on the 600. I had one for a year or so, and never really got to grips with it despite coming from a Boss. It was great for the few times when the wind was right and I got round the corners without swimming, but this was not very often, and I got frustrated with it. I have ended up with an RS Cat16, as I can sail it with the kids and also go single handed, so kind of best of both really.

Surely single handing your Dart would be a bigger blast anyway, and you can still class race it if that's your thing.

Dart's biggest issue was moving on my own on the beach and in the waves at launch. Plus only good in a small wind window, though I guess that was case for a lot of modern dinghies. I do miss it though.

[raywillden]

Have you considered the RS700? Supposedly a much more compliant and forgiving boat to sail than the 600. Not sure what used values are like though.

Hi Chirsga, I do miss the Boss, I remember the spin being a handful in anything over 15 knotts, it was bloody massive! We sold ours to a chap in Norway for virtually nothing :-(

[chrisga]

Mine went to a Dutch chap who drove all the way here to buy it and was wearing proper wooden clogs when he got out of the car!
I really enjoyed mine. There are a few people that think they were rubbish but they never really sailed them. They handled big wind and waves better than pretty much anything I've sailed since and yes, the spinnaker was massive. We had the 2nd gen full masthead with twin spreader 14 rig, not the 3/4 carbospars one. I had an Iso before that and that was, well admittedly a bit rubbish but you couldn't really compare the Boss to the ISO performance wise or weight/handling wise.

[raywillden]

Ours was retro fitted with the 'big' rig, it transformed the boat. Funnily enough we had an ISO for a few years before as well (sold to a chap in France). ISO could have been good, but it was too heavy, good class racing in the early years though when we used to get 50+ at the nats.

As for the BOSS, I have a memory of doing the Stokes Bay pursuit race and coming back on a broad reach from Cowes in about 35knts, it was an interesting blast! The RS800 killed the BOSS class, a much better boat in every way. I moved to F18 cats after the BOSS and still have one now for racing.