Flipping cars, a hard lesson
Discussion
I have been a Porsche enthusiast ever since I was a kid. Saved very hard, bought a 5 year old 911SC at only 24. Along came a house, sold the SC, but began ‘patiently’ saving for a future Porsche. 14 years on, saved enough to buy a 2000 Boxster S, followed by a 03 Boxster S. In 05 bought a 997 Carrera, in 06 a Boxster 2.7, and in 07 my dream car, a 997 GT3. Kept it 4 years, had a brief dabble in a Cayenne D, then had a 991 3.4 ‘manual.’ (In 2011 I notified my regular OPC intent to buy a gen 2 991 GT3 - was no 1 on the list.) The 3.4 was actually great car but 18 mths on couldn’t sell for love or money. Lost 22K. A big hit for a mostly 20% tax-payer… My OPC recommended I order a Macan DS or even two - as this new model would lose little or no money, giving me time to recover from my loss. So ordered 2. Kept each one 9 mths, losing almost nothing on them.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
I have been a Porsche enthusiast ever since I was a kid. Saved very hard, bought a 5 year old 911SC at only 24. Along came a house, sold the SC, but began ‘patiently’ saving for a future Porsche. 14 years on, saved enough to buy a 2000 Boxster S, followed by a 03 Boxster S. In 05 bought a 997 Carrera, in 06 a Boxster 2.7, and in 07 my dream car, a 997 GT3. Kept it 4 years, had a brief dabble in a Cayenne D, then had a 991 3.4 ‘manual.’ (In 2011 I notified my regular OPC intent to buy a gen 2 991 GT3 - was no 1 on the list.) The 3.4 was actually great car but 18 mths on couldn’t sell for love or money. Lost 22K. A big hit for a mostly 20% tax-payer… My OPC recommended I order a Macan DS or even two - as this new model would lose little or no money, giving me time to recover from my loss. So ordered 2. Kept each one 9 mths, losing almost nothing on them.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
notsomadmick said:
Tried that one. Wife has no independent buying record to be granted a GT3 sale. Told she needs to have bought several cars before they'd consider giving her one.
Looks like the wife will be getting a string of Stuttgart's finest over the next few years whilst you take care of the family bus.unlucky mate
Were you complicit in the dealer exporting the car ? did you know that that was their intention ?
Am sure Porsche (VAG) can choose not to sell cars to who-ever they want, at whatever price, for various reasons ... given their already soiled reputation and consumer demand ... if you have access to Which Legal or a Lawyer for low cost it could be worth seeking their advice as to the legality of the restriction on you.
Am sure Porsche (VAG) can choose not to sell cars to who-ever they want, at whatever price, for various reasons ... given their already soiled reputation and consumer demand ... if you have access to Which Legal or a Lawyer for low cost it could be worth seeking their advice as to the legality of the restriction on you.
Just iilustrates how ridiculous the whole situation has become with regards GT porsches.
Let's hope they start building as many GT3's as they get orders for and selling them to anyone, then all this bks stops, GT cars depreciate at bit each year and everybody but speculators and the likes of JZM are happy.
Let's hope they start building as many GT3's as they get orders for and selling them to anyone, then all this bks stops, GT cars depreciate at bit each year and everybody but speculators and the likes of JZM are happy.
Just for completeness, I was definitely not complicit in the export, and indeed the trader gave me his word he would not do so. What I mean by 'mostly a 20% tax payer' is that on my income, I have to save damn hard, and have to be very careful to limit my losses to even play in this market at all.
Edited by notsomadmick on Sunday 19th February 17:49
m88ony said:
I do wonder how many people would actually want a GT3 if the depreciation curve was like any other normal car. 50% of the value after 3 years.
It would certainly put me out of the market , but that doesn't make me any less of an enthusiast than the next man. I've owned 996 , 997 and 991 GT3 clubsports . A GT4 , a Spyder , 2 x Cayman R's and several Macans . I haven't bought any cars to " flip" but i do have to buy smartly to minimise risk and sell at the right time to allow me to keep driving the cars I love .
I've probably done approx 50,000miles + in the cars above so there not garage queens or bought as investments ....
I am curious about this. As. Chartered Accountant I like to think I understand VAT but not as it specifically relates to new cars.
Am I correct in thinking a registered dealer buys a new car, reclaims the VAT while it is in stock (friend drives the car) and then exports the car so that no VAT is payable on the sale to HMRC?
Am I correct in thinking a registered dealer buys a new car, reclaims the VAT while it is in stock (friend drives the car) and then exports the car so that no VAT is payable on the sale to HMRC?
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff