Flipping cars, a hard lesson

Flipping cars, a hard lesson

Author
Discussion

notsomadmick

Original Poster:

160 posts

159 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
I have been a Porsche enthusiast ever since I was a kid. Saved very hard, bought a 5 year old 911SC at only 24. Along came a house, sold the SC, but began ‘patiently’ saving for a future Porsche. 14 years on, saved enough to buy a 2000 Boxster S, followed by a 03 Boxster S. In 05 bought a 997 Carrera, in 06 a Boxster 2.7, and in 07 my dream car, a 997 GT3. Kept it 4 years, had a brief dabble in a Cayenne D, then had a 991 3.4 ‘manual.’ (In 2011 I notified my regular OPC intent to buy a gen 2 991 GT3 - was no 1 on the list.) The 3.4 was actually great car but 18 mths on couldn’t sell for love or money. Lost 22K. A big hit for a mostly 20% tax-payer… My OPC recommended I order a Macan DS or even two - as this new model would lose little or no money, giving me time to recover from my loss. So ordered 2. Kept each one 9 mths, losing almost nothing on them.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.

However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.

BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.

notsomadmick

Original Poster:

160 posts

159 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
I have been a Porsche enthusiast ever since I was a kid. Saved very hard, bought a 5 year old 911SC at only 24. Along came a house, sold the SC, but began ‘patiently’ saving for a future Porsche. 14 years on, saved enough to buy a 2000 Boxster S, followed by a 03 Boxster S. In 05 bought a 997 Carrera, in 06 a Boxster 2.7, and in 07 my dream car, a 997 GT3. Kept it 4 years, had a brief dabble in a Cayenne D, then had a 991 3.4 ‘manual.’ (In 2011 I notified my regular OPC intent to buy a gen 2 991 GT3 - was no 1 on the list.) The 3.4 was actually great car but 18 mths on couldn’t sell for love or money. Lost 22K. A big hit for a mostly 20% tax-payer… My OPC recommended I order a Macan DS or even two - as this new model would lose little or no money, giving me time to recover from my loss. So ordered 2. Kept each one 9 mths, losing almost nothing on them.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.

However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.

BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.

Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
get you wife/gf/bf/mum/dad/uncle/aunt/brother/sister/ltd co to buy it for you.

not hard smile


notsomadmick

Original Poster:

160 posts

159 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Tried that one. Wife has no independent buying record to be granted a GT3 sale. Told she needs to have bought several cars before they'd consider giving her one.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
notsomadmick said:
Tried that one. Wife has no independent buying record to be granted a GT3 sale. Told she needs to have bought several cars before they'd consider giving her one.
Looks like the wife will be getting a string of Stuttgart's finest over the next few years whilst you take care of the family bus.
unlucky mate hehe

andylaight

172 posts

125 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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As this is a duplicate post are you flipping posts too?

g7jhp

6,959 posts

237 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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Just buy a used GT3...996 or 997 and keep hold of it long term. You'll lose less money than flipping new Porsche cars.

J1JPE

296 posts

225 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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Were you complicit in the dealer exporting the car ? did you know that that was their intention ?

Am sure Porsche (VAG) can choose not to sell cars to who-ever they want, at whatever price, for various reasons ... given their already soiled reputation and consumer demand ... if you have access to Which Legal or a Lawyer for low cost it could be worth seeking their advice as to the legality of the restriction on you.

SRT Hellcat

7,017 posts

216 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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I suppose you could try and arrange a meeting with the top dog at Reading. I am not up to date with who that is but some wise folk on here no doubt will have a name, contact number and an email address. Tell him your story and beg for forgiveness. Good luck

chriscoates81

482 posts

131 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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Why would you be blacklisted for something a trader has done to a car that you no longer own?

Budflicker

3,799 posts

183 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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Just iilustrates how ridiculous the whole situation has become with regards GT porsches.

Let's hope they start building as many GT3's as they get orders for and selling them to anyone, then all this bks stops, GT cars depreciate at bit each year and everybody but speculators and the likes of JZM are happy.


footsoldier

2,251 posts

191 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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You'll know the full circumatsances better than me, but If I was a "mostly 20% taxpayer" buying Porsches 2 at a time, and getting a trader to help with VAT avoidance, I probably wouldn't be posting online about it...

notsomadmick

Original Poster:

160 posts

159 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Just for completeness, I was definitely not complicit in the export, and indeed the trader gave me his word he would not do so. What I mean by 'mostly a 20% tax payer' is that on my income, I have to save damn hard, and have to be very careful to limit my losses to even play in this market at all.

Edited by notsomadmick on Sunday 19th February 17:49

footsoldier

2,251 posts

191 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Fair enough, and like I said you'll know better than me. Just wouldn't want you to add to the problem!

m88ony

337 posts

100 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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I do wonder how many people would actually want a GT3 if the depreciation curve was like any other normal car. 50% of the value after 3 years.

720Sand1299

901 posts

148 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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m88ony said:
I do wonder how many people would actually want a GT3 if the depreciation curve was like any other normal car. 50% of the value after 3 years.
Quite.

GT3cs

1,200 posts

240 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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m88ony said:
I do wonder how many people would actually want a GT3 if the depreciation curve was like any other normal car. 50% of the value after 3 years.
It would certainly put me out of the market , but that doesn't make me any less of an enthusiast than the next man.

I've owned 996 , 997 and 991 GT3 clubsports . A GT4 , a Spyder , 2 x Cayman R's and several Macans . I haven't bought any cars to " flip" but i do have to buy smartly to minimise risk and sell at the right time to allow me to keep driving the cars I love .

I've probably done approx 50,000miles + in the cars above so there not garage queens or bought as investments ....

mdianuk

2,890 posts

170 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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You bought a GTS by avoiding the VAT/TAX using a mate to profit, then got your fingers burnt? Karma's a b!tch eh!

Back on the subject of being blacklisted though, it is good to hear that Porsche are taking this more serious these days.

hopeydaze

298 posts

149 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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I am curious about this. As. Chartered Accountant I like to think I understand VAT but not as it specifically relates to new cars.

Am I correct in thinking a registered dealer buys a new car, reclaims the VAT while it is in stock (friend drives the car) and then exports the car so that no VAT is payable on the sale to HMRC?


Essential

1,077 posts

209 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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But then in above scenario the car would be registered to the dealer, the selling dealer would not know about the 'friend' meaning that the friends is not Blacklisted?