Realistic running costs, 996 or early 997
Discussion
Hi there.
My dad went to go and look at a 911 yesterday, long story short - I have decided that I am having one before I am 30.
I am not alien to cars costing money to run having had various performance cars over the years.
Just looking for some advice from actual owners, not pub gossip, what they're like to run.
It won't be a main car, so probably sub 5k miles a year.
What i've gathered so far, bore score and IMS are the main things that anyone who's even heard of a Porsche will mention to be wary of.
Thanks in advance, Stuart.
My dad went to go and look at a 911 yesterday, long story short - I have decided that I am having one before I am 30.
I am not alien to cars costing money to run having had various performance cars over the years.
Just looking for some advice from actual owners, not pub gossip, what they're like to run.
It won't be a main car, so probably sub 5k miles a year.
What i've gathered so far, bore score and IMS are the main things that anyone who's even heard of a Porsche will mention to be wary of.
Thanks in advance, Stuart.
Do it!
In 18 months or ~14K miles on mine I've done:
Coffin arms (squeaky)
Geo
Clutch and flywheel (worn but still functional)
New rubber
Window reg (failure)
Water pump (failure)
Discs and pads up front (warped)
Service
I don't like to add it up but I think somewhere between 3-5K.
Probably could have left a few things, Like the clutch. It was functional but Heavy, quite hard to get off the line smoothly and the changes could be a bit harsh due to the DMF being worn.
Anyway, Worth every penny.
ETA Aircon condensors to the list. They get battered with debris as a matter of course.
In 18 months or ~14K miles on mine I've done:
Coffin arms (squeaky)
Geo
Clutch and flywheel (worn but still functional)
New rubber
Window reg (failure)
Water pump (failure)
Discs and pads up front (warped)
Service
I don't like to add it up but I think somewhere between 3-5K.
Probably could have left a few things, Like the clutch. It was functional but Heavy, quite hard to get off the line smoothly and the changes could be a bit harsh due to the DMF being worn.
Anyway, Worth every penny.
ETA Aircon condensors to the list. They get battered with debris as a matter of course.
Edited by Scho on Monday 27th February 13:33
If you're buying one that's 10 years old+ you have to expect to fix bits and bobs here and there. Coil packs, suspension parts, springs, the alternator leads are notorious for failing, radiators for air con & engine, coolant header tanks not that robust. Electrically they are pretty good, main issues seem to be engine and related ancilliaries. If it hasn't had a clutch then that's possible and in the £1500 area with flywheel. Can't say when it will need it as I've had 70,000 out of 3 manual Porsches with no issues there.
You have to expect £1000+ a year on things outside of service. Brakes and tyres it isn't too expensive or heavy on for 5000 miles a year. Servicing is cheap at indis.
You might run it for peanuts but if it went in for a service & needed £2k of work you have to be happy to pay that
You have to expect £1000+ a year on things outside of service. Brakes and tyres it isn't too expensive or heavy on for 5000 miles a year. Servicing is cheap at indis.
You might run it for peanuts but if it went in for a service & needed £2k of work you have to be happy to pay that
Thanks for the replies, gents.
I am not averse to spending money on cars.
Whichever car i end up with it's invariably never up to my standard.
I am a truck mechanic so I'll be doing a lot of the work myself.
Major stuff and an annual service, i'd probably get an indi to do for the service history side of it.
But suspension parts, brake work etc, i'll tackle.
Had an epiphany this past few weeks, so i'll be buying a Porsche before I am 30 next year as a result!
I am not averse to spending money on cars.
Whichever car i end up with it's invariably never up to my standard.
I am a truck mechanic so I'll be doing a lot of the work myself.
Major stuff and an annual service, i'd probably get an indi to do for the service history side of it.
But suspension parts, brake work etc, i'll tackle.
Had an epiphany this past few weeks, so i'll be buying a Porsche before I am 30 next year as a result!
Hi,
Having had a couple of these cars, and always buying at the "cheap" end of the market, ie sub £10,000 I would urge you to consider paying more for a well maintained example. I too do the majority of servicing and rebuilding, but even so parts prices stack up. Yes, engines cost £10,000 to rebuild, but there is loads of other stuff that will potentially need doing on a 12 to 18 year old car.
I have spent £4,000 in the last few months on mainly parts only. Rebuilding suspension - £2300. Servicing - £310. Brakes/exhaust/water pump/tyres - £1500. A good car may already have this done, or at least be up to spec already.
Also other areas maybe more "tired and worn" and the car may have higher mileage which will affect resale. I know that paying more money doesn't offer any guarantees, but you may save in the long run, especially if you do not intend to keep it more than 2 years.
That said, for myself I like having a project car, and I so far..... I haven't gone over what I reckon I could sell it for.
Cheers
Having had a couple of these cars, and always buying at the "cheap" end of the market, ie sub £10,000 I would urge you to consider paying more for a well maintained example. I too do the majority of servicing and rebuilding, but even so parts prices stack up. Yes, engines cost £10,000 to rebuild, but there is loads of other stuff that will potentially need doing on a 12 to 18 year old car.
I have spent £4,000 in the last few months on mainly parts only. Rebuilding suspension - £2300. Servicing - £310. Brakes/exhaust/water pump/tyres - £1500. A good car may already have this done, or at least be up to spec already.
Also other areas maybe more "tired and worn" and the car may have higher mileage which will affect resale. I know that paying more money doesn't offer any guarantees, but you may save in the long run, especially if you do not intend to keep it more than 2 years.
That said, for myself I like having a project car, and I so far..... I haven't gone over what I reckon I could sell it for.
Cheers
TheLordJohn said:
Thanks for the replies, gents.
I am not averse to spending money on cars.
Whichever car i end up with it's invariably never up to my standard.
I am a truck mechanic so I'll be doing a lot of the work myself.
Major stuff and an annual service, i'd probably get an indi to do for the service history side of it.
But suspension parts, brake work etc, i'll tackle.
Had an epiphany this past few weeks, so i'll be buying a Porsche before I am 30 next year as a result!
If you can do the work yourself these cars are total no brainers - the prices of parts isn't too bad it's the labout + VAT that kills it. I am not averse to spending money on cars.
Whichever car i end up with it's invariably never up to my standard.
I am a truck mechanic so I'll be doing a lot of the work myself.
Major stuff and an annual service, i'd probably get an indi to do for the service history side of it.
But suspension parts, brake work etc, i'll tackle.
Had an epiphany this past few weeks, so i'll be buying a Porsche before I am 30 next year as a result!
Can you strip / rebuild an engine, are you aware of the engine issues these cars suffer?
James - thanks very much for taking the time to reply.
All that time on PH and I've got your 7th post...!
Yes, I don't mind spending money on cars, and don't mind having a fiddle.
Gets you learning about it and invested in it a bit, makes you more fond of it in my experience.
I can do anything, yeah. I wouldn't do the engine rebuild on a Porsche I don't think as I'd like a known Indi to have completed it for the service history.
Having said that, if it s
ts itself in a bad way (The liners can pick up, can't they?) and I have owned it a while/will own it a long time/don't intend on ever selling it then I'd probably do the work myself.
All that time on PH and I've got your 7th post...!
Yes, I don't mind spending money on cars, and don't mind having a fiddle.
Gets you learning about it and invested in it a bit, makes you more fond of it in my experience.
I can do anything, yeah. I wouldn't do the engine rebuild on a Porsche I don't think as I'd like a known Indi to have completed it for the service history.
Having said that, if it s
ts itself in a bad way (The liners can pick up, can't they?) and I have owned it a while/will own it a long time/don't intend on ever selling it then I'd probably do the work myself.I agree if you can do the work then they are definitely a good bet, lots if little things that can add up if the indy is charging but pretty cheap and easy to do yourself. Bought a 997.1 a couple of years ago, done the exhaust(corroded bolts normal and pse hack which is great) plugs/coil packs, low temperature sensor, brakes and a few other things. Parts that are available at gsf etc are cheapish but some can be pricey. But lovely cars
I've had my '05 997 C2s for almost six years and aside from servicing / consumables I've actually only replaced really odd items:
O/S Headlamp Washer - A lesson in not using tap water to fill the washer tank; it scaled up and knackered the seals through lack of use. Remember to give them a squirt once in a while to stop that happening.
New 'S' badge - half got pinged off by a microfibre cloth, watch for that
Glove Box Damper Arm Hook - the (tiny) hook holding the damper arm onto the glove box. £2.17 and a sod to fit
And that's it. Mine is serviced on schedule at the two-year intervals by a fantastic Indy near me, but I get the oil and filter changed every year regardless. I do about 6k miles a year and a fair chunk of those are pretty hard, so it's a no brainer to stump up for an oil change. I've been trying to get the service schedule back on track as my car did a lot of miles early on in life, so things like the Spark Plug change were out of sync however, I've paid £350ish for a Minor Service (which included the MOT), and £530 for a Major Service (included drive belt and tensioner change)
The front tyres were brand new when I bought, and the rears were about half-worn. I finally changed the fronts last January after 25,000 miles. I put my third set on the rear in September, but that's because the fronts went from Pirelli P-Zero Rossos (comfy but crap on the limit) to Michelin PS2's (Be a bit careful in the wet, stonking on pretty much any dry day) so changed the back to match.
I'm not scared of getting on the tools myself within reason, I've just not needed to before much now. I do have some money to spend this year, but none of it is actually THAT desperate, just early:
I'm replacing the brakes on all four corners - I got the OEM (Brembo) parts for a song in December - even though there's still some life left. Sometimes the pedals not quite 'there' when I'm really on it in the summer in particular. I'm also changing the front brake ducts for GT3 items as they're a straight swap and, at £12 delivered from Design911, they were a proper steal.
I'll also be doing a full strip down and clean in the wheel arches as a lot of grime can build up both in front of and behing the rads as well as in the little aero 'spat' just ahead of the rear wheel. (I had to clear out behind the nearside rad about four years ago, as build up became hardened sludge that actually stopped the fan on that side from working)
Find a good one, and you'll be grinning like a loon
O/S Headlamp Washer - A lesson in not using tap water to fill the washer tank; it scaled up and knackered the seals through lack of use. Remember to give them a squirt once in a while to stop that happening.
New 'S' badge - half got pinged off by a microfibre cloth, watch for that
Glove Box Damper Arm Hook - the (tiny) hook holding the damper arm onto the glove box. £2.17 and a sod to fit
And that's it. Mine is serviced on schedule at the two-year intervals by a fantastic Indy near me, but I get the oil and filter changed every year regardless. I do about 6k miles a year and a fair chunk of those are pretty hard, so it's a no brainer to stump up for an oil change. I've been trying to get the service schedule back on track as my car did a lot of miles early on in life, so things like the Spark Plug change were out of sync however, I've paid £350ish for a Minor Service (which included the MOT), and £530 for a Major Service (included drive belt and tensioner change)
The front tyres were brand new when I bought, and the rears were about half-worn. I finally changed the fronts last January after 25,000 miles. I put my third set on the rear in September, but that's because the fronts went from Pirelli P-Zero Rossos (comfy but crap on the limit) to Michelin PS2's (Be a bit careful in the wet, stonking on pretty much any dry day) so changed the back to match.
I'm not scared of getting on the tools myself within reason, I've just not needed to before much now. I do have some money to spend this year, but none of it is actually THAT desperate, just early:
I'm replacing the brakes on all four corners - I got the OEM (Brembo) parts for a song in December - even though there's still some life left. Sometimes the pedals not quite 'there' when I'm really on it in the summer in particular. I'm also changing the front brake ducts for GT3 items as they're a straight swap and, at £12 delivered from Design911, they were a proper steal.
I'll also be doing a full strip down and clean in the wheel arches as a lot of grime can build up both in front of and behing the rads as well as in the little aero 'spat' just ahead of the rear wheel. (I had to clear out behind the nearside rad about four years ago, as build up became hardened sludge that actually stopped the fan on that side from working)
Find a good one, and you'll be grinning like a loon
TheLordJohn said:
James - thanks very much for taking the time to reply.
All that time on PH and I've got your 7th post...!
...And the 8th post too!!!!All that time on PH and I've got your 7th post...!
As a mechanic I think you'll have an appreciation for the solid build quality of the chassis. These cars are definitely designed to be fixed and refreshed, not thrown away after 10 years. You just need to set aside the same amount as some folks spend in depreciation on a new Euro / Jap box or SUV diesel every year. Man Maths + Philosophical approach = Porsche.
I've spent a fair few £ over the years on mine as the mileage has increased. So far, it has had:
Front diff
All the radiators, they were gunked up like nothing else so definitely check the aircon!
Coffin Arms
Clutch and flywheel in addition to the engine rebuild
Stainless steel exhaust
Refurbed wheels
Not including all the consumables...
But, buy one, you'll love it!
Front diff
All the radiators, they were gunked up like nothing else so definitely check the aircon!
Coffin Arms
Clutch and flywheel in addition to the engine rebuild
Stainless steel exhaust
Refurbed wheels
Not including all the consumables...
But, buy one, you'll love it!
Thanks for the continued responses, gents.
In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:24
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:27
Contrarian advice from all the above: I bought a high mileage car for a lower price as I budgeted for changing some key bits myself so that then I would know the car condition for sure:
- IMS bearing upgrade
- Lower temp Thermostat
- Exhaust mod
- discs and pads
- radiators
and other things.
Even with that spend, it was still cheaper than a "nice and low mile" car.
So here's my 2p on that.
Running costs should be ok if you find a friendly indy and know how to use the internet for parts.
- IMS bearing upgrade
- Lower temp Thermostat
- Exhaust mod
- discs and pads
- radiators
and other things.
Even with that spend, it was still cheaper than a "nice and low mile" car.
So here's my 2p on that.
Running costs should be ok if you find a friendly indy and know how to use the internet for parts.
TheLordJohn said:
Thanks for the continued responses, gents.
In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
I think in the long run the early 3.4 will be the 996 to have. In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:24
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:27
I have a face lift and I actually prefer fried eggs with ambers.
Good luck!
TheLordJohn said:
Thanks for the continued responses, gents.
In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
How you feel about the difference in looks is down to personal preference. There's not a lot in it between the way they drive imho. Each engine has its foibles. On balance the m96 3.4 seems to have low or no susceptibility to bore scoring, but that's not to say they're all problem-free. I think they'll all appreciate in time, probably the earlier cars first. In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:24
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:27
TheLordJohn said:
Thanks for the continued responses, gents.
In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
Early 3.4 is arguably the best buy. In talks with a couple of semi-serious contenders.
Is it the end of the world if 'the one' is an early 996 (3.4) rather than a 3.6?
Or not a huge difference?
I'm edging towards buying on condition and history more so than anything else.
Is there a firm feeling towards appreciation on these?
Thanks, Stuart.
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:24
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 6th March 22:27
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