997 Turbo or 997 Turbo S?
Discussion
Carlson W6 said:
I moved from a 997 Gen 1 tip turbo to a 997 Gen 2 Turbo S.
The combination of extra horsepower, variable vein turbos (meaning less lag) and
PDK is far greater than the sun of the parts look on paper.
The Turbo S drives like a completely different car.
It was a great move for me and I don't hanker after the 991 as if just seems a little
too big visually to me, the 997 seems more 911 like. The 991 almost appears like a completely
new model in a different category.
I'll probably get used to the 991 as all cars seem to get bigger and bigger but right now
I'm extremely happy in the 997 Turbo S; it really is exceptional.
I made the same move at the beginning of the year, and that mirrors my thoughts exactly..The combination of extra horsepower, variable vein turbos (meaning less lag) and
PDK is far greater than the sun of the parts look on paper.
The Turbo S drives like a completely different car.
It was a great move for me and I don't hanker after the 991 as if just seems a little
too big visually to me, the 997 seems more 911 like. The 991 almost appears like a completely
new model in a different category.
I'll probably get used to the 991 as all cars seem to get bigger and bigger but right now
I'm extremely happy in the 997 Turbo S; it really is exceptional.
Coincidentally, as I was picking up the 997, there was another customer taking delivery of a 991 Turbo S, and the visual difference in size was definitely noticeable - although I had driven a 991 C2 that didn't feel much bigger at the time.
I almost opted for a non-S, fully specced car and I'm now glad I didn't - there is that extra power, but I suspect the S will hold it's value better.
I would definitely go for a turbo s because of the rarity and they will tend to hold there value much better. The 991 turbo s is a common car and so many for sale. I'd agree that the 997 turbo is the last of the proper porsches, with the newer Ines like a different car. Less raw and more tech. I much prefer the looks of a 997 turbo
This rather nice Turbo S went up for sale a couple of days ago....fully priced but a lovely looking car and not surprisingly seems to have sold inside 48 hours
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Anyone on here the lucky new owner ?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Anyone on here the lucky new owner ?
Agreed on the Turbo S.....Ive been keeping an eye out on OPC website and there have been 2 coupes in over the last 3 weeks, both sold within a day and the last one which was a 2011 car went for £90K with 16k miles.....Clearly you need to act fast to get one of these !
Edited by beejay993 on Wednesday 24th May 15:18
beejay993 said:
Agreed on the Turbo S.....Ive been keeping an eye out on OPC website and there have been 2 coupes in over the last 3 weeks, both sold within a day and the last one which was a 2011 car went for £90K with 16k miles.....Clearly you need to act fact to get one of these !
Market is bonkers across the board! JZM had two 997 GTS manual coupe's in on the same day last week...one appeared to sell same day...the other sold the next day.sasha320 said:
I'm in the market for an OPC 997 Turbo S.
There is a slow trickle of these through OPCs however prices are very high and I'm exploring the two cars either side of the 997 Turbo S - namely the 997 Turbo and the 991 Turbo.
The two questions I have are
1. Dynamically is a 997 Turbo with PTV and Chrono pack that includes dynamic engine mounts arguably the same as a marginally less boosted Turbo S? (Not withstanding the other cosmetic standard options like PCCB that come with the Turbo S).
2. Is a 991 Turbo (with PDCC) comparable in performance and dynamics to the 997 Turbo S?
I guess what's driving the questions is that low mileage OPC Turbo S cars are commanding such high prices (even after I have allowed for the OPC premium which I'm happy to accept) and I am questioning whether the two cars in the range either side of the 997 Turbo S are in fact better value £ for £.
Also I know it is pointless to look at trade prices (except to see what you'd get in a distress sale) but still a Turbo S that's offered for £80k/£85k is a £62k car in the trade... although I accept a gap in value between trade and retail (especially at OPC) £20k is a pretty big gap that will track against depreciation for some time.
Any thoughts / perspectives on my questions appreciated.
If you haven't purchased yet there a chap on Porsche Owners UK FB group with what sounds like a very nice 2011 Turbo S up for sale. He's asking opinions on what to let it go for. Could be a very good buy especially with a years OPC warranty.There is a slow trickle of these through OPCs however prices are very high and I'm exploring the two cars either side of the 997 Turbo S - namely the 997 Turbo and the 991 Turbo.
The two questions I have are
1. Dynamically is a 997 Turbo with PTV and Chrono pack that includes dynamic engine mounts arguably the same as a marginally less boosted Turbo S? (Not withstanding the other cosmetic standard options like PCCB that come with the Turbo S).
2. Is a 991 Turbo (with PDCC) comparable in performance and dynamics to the 997 Turbo S?
I guess what's driving the questions is that low mileage OPC Turbo S cars are commanding such high prices (even after I have allowed for the OPC premium which I'm happy to accept) and I am questioning whether the two cars in the range either side of the 997 Turbo S are in fact better value £ for £.
Also I know it is pointless to look at trade prices (except to see what you'd get in a distress sale) but still a Turbo S that's offered for £80k/£85k is a £62k car in the trade... although I accept a gap in value between trade and retail (especially at OPC) £20k is a pretty big gap that will track against depreciation for some time.
Any thoughts / perspectives on my questions appreciated.
Edited by sasha320 on Sunday 19th March 08:08
I also have a 2012 Turbo S that Im in 2 minds to sell.
They seem to be selling within 24 hours at the moment the problem Ive got is I dont know what else to buy. Im rather smug at the moment that I can probaly get most of my money back on the car I bought 2 years ago which at this price of car thats rather difficult to do.
They seem to be selling within 24 hours at the moment the problem Ive got is I dont know what else to buy. Im rather smug at the moment that I can probaly get most of my money back on the car I bought 2 years ago which at this price of car thats rather difficult to do.
It is an interesting market for sure.
My price ceiling for an OPC 997 Turbo S has been exceeded and so I'm out until prices move downwards.
What is starting to encroach on the top end of 997 Turbo S prices are 991 Turbos and 991 GTS's.
It remains to be seen whether the low mileage 997 Turbo S's will stay where they are (as an enthusiast's car) when 991 prices start to overlap.
My point being that this time next year either 997 Turbo S's are going to be dearer than 991 Turbos, or 997 Turbo S's are due for a price adjustment.
I can't make a call so I'll wait until 991's come into my price range (there are too many of them to hold their price for too long) and see if I have a choice between one of them or a 997 Turbo S.
All of that said, yet again I watch 'the trade' enjoy significantly marking up cars; a speed yellow Turbo S came on AT a few weeks ago with a private seller for £75k, hung around for a bit and then disappeared, only to reappear (I think it was the same car) at a specialist dealer for £85k.
Fair play to the dealer, but equally the margin between trade and retail on these cars is also off putting. I'm generally not convinced by the amount of prep non-OPC dealers claim to put into the cars especially in the area of the warranty. Although experiences vary, I generally feel you could get somewhere with an OPC in the event of a grave issue with the car (which combined with the OPC warranty starts to make the OPC purchase different enough to justify the premium).
In fact I'd argue that non-OPC dealers are only marginally more secure than a well orchestrated private sale.
But to be clear, if I was a dealer I'd be doing exactly the same and this post is purely based sour grapes!!!! (Moreso for not moving on the Meteor Grey 997 Turbo S a couple of months ago!)
My price ceiling for an OPC 997 Turbo S has been exceeded and so I'm out until prices move downwards.
What is starting to encroach on the top end of 997 Turbo S prices are 991 Turbos and 991 GTS's.
It remains to be seen whether the low mileage 997 Turbo S's will stay where they are (as an enthusiast's car) when 991 prices start to overlap.
My point being that this time next year either 997 Turbo S's are going to be dearer than 991 Turbos, or 997 Turbo S's are due for a price adjustment.
I can't make a call so I'll wait until 991's come into my price range (there are too many of them to hold their price for too long) and see if I have a choice between one of them or a 997 Turbo S.
All of that said, yet again I watch 'the trade' enjoy significantly marking up cars; a speed yellow Turbo S came on AT a few weeks ago with a private seller for £75k, hung around for a bit and then disappeared, only to reappear (I think it was the same car) at a specialist dealer for £85k.
Fair play to the dealer, but equally the margin between trade and retail on these cars is also off putting. I'm generally not convinced by the amount of prep non-OPC dealers claim to put into the cars especially in the area of the warranty. Although experiences vary, I generally feel you could get somewhere with an OPC in the event of a grave issue with the car (which combined with the OPC warranty starts to make the OPC purchase different enough to justify the premium).
In fact I'd argue that non-OPC dealers are only marginally more secure than a well orchestrated private sale.
But to be clear, if I was a dealer I'd be doing exactly the same and this post is purely based sour grapes!!!! (Moreso for not moving on the Meteor Grey 997 Turbo S a couple of months ago!)
Sorry, I was referring to the 991 Turbo, not 991 Turbo S.
I can see a rationale where a low mileage 997 Turbo S (maybe with some OPC warranty left) had a higher price than a 991 Turbo (exclusivity, hydraulic steering, more options, centre locks, acceleration etc. underpinning that rationale), however I am assuming that there thousands of 991 Turbos and Turbo S's.
I can see a rationale where a low mileage 997 Turbo S (maybe with some OPC warranty left) had a higher price than a 991 Turbo (exclusivity, hydraulic steering, more options, centre locks, acceleration etc. underpinning that rationale), however I am assuming that there thousands of 991 Turbos and Turbo S's.
sasha320 said:
Sorry, I was referring to the 991 Turbo, not 991 Turbo S.
I can see a rationale where a low mileage 997 Turbo S (maybe with some OPC warranty left) had a higher price than a 991 Turbo (exclusivity, hydraulic steering, more options, centre locks, acceleration etc. underpinning that rationale), however I am assuming that there thousands of 991 Turbos and Turbo S's.
It's a good point you make about the 991 Turbo...definitely more around than there are of the 997 Turbo S....save for high mileage cars I can't really see 991's getting down to say £80k in the near future. Cars with say 20k miles on them are still up around £100k. I can see a rationale where a low mileage 997 Turbo S (maybe with some OPC warranty left) had a higher price than a 991 Turbo (exclusivity, hydraulic steering, more options, centre locks, acceleration etc. underpinning that rationale), however I am assuming that there thousands of 991 Turbos and Turbo S's.
A 991 Turbo S with say 60k miles on it would probably be cheaper than a low mileage 997 Turbo S already.
Mileage as we know is what really kicks residuals with these cars.
I recently went from 981 Spyder which I had for almost a year from new to a 997.1 tip. i would have kept the Spyder but needed to release some money. In comparison I'am finding the 997 turbo a little boring, clinical & nowhere near as involving to drive.The 997t is ballistically fast even in standard form but just not as fun as the Spyder. Its going to be a long wait until the 718 GT4 comes along. I'am sure the turbo S is a different kettle of fish to my turbo though.
Agree completely with that..
Had my first proper outing on some good driving roads around the Beacons last week, and the Turbo S feels a very different beast to the Turbo Tip that went before it - much sharper as said, the PDK in sport mode seemed almost intuitive eve though I did ultimately switch over to full manual for some fun as well. The S feels like it has a more aggressive nature than a Turbo Tip
None of the lag, phenomenal grip although I thought Cup 2's may have played a part, and none of the hesitation of the Tip box. Just glad I got in when I did, as prices have gone north since..
Had my first proper outing on some good driving roads around the Beacons last week, and the Turbo S feels a very different beast to the Turbo Tip that went before it - much sharper as said, the PDK in sport mode seemed almost intuitive eve though I did ultimately switch over to full manual for some fun as well. The S feels like it has a more aggressive nature than a Turbo Tip
None of the lag, phenomenal grip although I thought Cup 2's may have played a part, and none of the hesitation of the Tip box. Just glad I got in when I did, as prices have gone north since..
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