what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
rubystone said:
Is that purchase price correct?...it's not what Bosse told me...
Depends on when you spoke with him - we had agreed on £13,500, then the garage that Bosse took it to for the PPI came back with the projected invoice (which you saw), and I found myself in a difficult situation.I had allowed £15,000 for the purchase of the car and any necessary work, which I was up front about with Bosse, he then changed his offer to accommodate said work - which was such a decent, generous action that I committed to buying the car at once.
That the work identified and done by Precision was almost two grand more than BSG had identified was somewhat annoying, but that's life I guess - some of the items were only identified after they'd fixed others for e.g.
ras62 said:
Considering the price difference and variation in quality in stitching in a new window I would suggest simply getting a new roof installed is the best way forward. There is also a heated glass option which again is much better than the original plastic item.
That's the option I've priced up, and is in the doc I attached.£999+VAT for roof, supply and fit, roof to be dark blue BAS with heated glass screen
£165 +VAT remove and cover in matching blue hood material the rear roll bar covers, side flaps and main center trim panel so that it matches the roof (very obvious colour difference on these parts against the roof when roof stowed)
£150+VAT strip front seats and remove backs ready for paintwork, delivering and collection of items from paint shop and re-fitting to seats as required
Which puts the roof replacement (and seat strip/delivery) at £1,314, which with VAT gives us £1,576.80.
I'm guessing that sanding back, filling, priming and painting the hardbacks for the seats in Arctic Silver to match the body would be ~£400.
I would of course be happy if it were to be less than that.
£165 +VAT remove and cover in matching blue hood material the rear roll bar covers, side flaps and main center trim panel so that it matches the roof (very obvious colour difference on these parts against the roof when roof stowed)
£150+VAT strip front seats and remove backs ready for paintwork, delivering and collection of items from paint shop and re-fitting to seats as required
Which puts the roof replacement (and seat strip/delivery) at £1,314, which with VAT gives us £1,576.80.
I'm guessing that sanding back, filling, priming and painting the hardbacks for the seats in Arctic Silver to match the body would be ~£400.
I would of course be happy if it were to be less than that.
Just shows the devil really is always in the detail. Always amazes me how people are so focussed on getting 1k off the asking price but not so bothered about spending £300 to get a good ppi.
I think though prices paid for work and parts etcs is directly proportional to the amount of time you have available to do research and some diy yourself.
I think though prices paid for work and parts etcs is directly proportional to the amount of time you have available to do research and some diy yourself.
My 2001 c2, manual coupe has been with me 14 months.
Bought privately for 13k, with 88k and a major engine rebuild at Porsche Reading in 2010 at 60k miles it was my ideal spec / no sunroof / extended black leather & basalt black paint. Car graphic exhaust.
I have purposely not added up the spend so far, but it has had : 2 services, expansion tank & coolant, gearbox flush and fresh oil, radiator grills, engine mounts, wheel refurb and new michelins, new disks and pads, low temp thermostat, precautionary water pump. Some suspension fettling and alignment at Center Gravity.
Total spend is certainly well into the high teens, maybe close to 20k. Definitely more than I could sell it for anyway - and that is fine. I like it a lot.
Bought privately for 13k, with 88k and a major engine rebuild at Porsche Reading in 2010 at 60k miles it was my ideal spec / no sunroof / extended black leather & basalt black paint. Car graphic exhaust.
I have purposely not added up the spend so far, but it has had : 2 services, expansion tank & coolant, gearbox flush and fresh oil, radiator grills, engine mounts, wheel refurb and new michelins, new disks and pads, low temp thermostat, precautionary water pump. Some suspension fettling and alignment at Center Gravity.
Total spend is certainly well into the high teens, maybe close to 20k. Definitely more than I could sell it for anyway - and that is fine. I like it a lot.
Dammit said:
Depends on when you spoke with him - we had agreed on £13,500, then the garage that Bosse took it to for the PPI came back with the projected invoice (which you saw), and I found myself in a difficult situation.
I had allowed £15,000 for the purchase of the car and any necessary work, which I was up front about with Bosse, he then changed his offer to accommodate said work - which was such a decent, generous action that I committed to buying the car at once.
That the work identified and done by Precision was almost two grand more than BSG had identified was somewhat annoying, but that's life I guess - some of the items were only identified after they'd fixed others for e.g.
Yes, he told me about the £13,500 figure. What a decent bloke. I had allowed £15,000 for the purchase of the car and any necessary work, which I was up front about with Bosse, he then changed his offer to accommodate said work - which was such a decent, generous action that I committed to buying the car at once.
That the work identified and done by Precision was almost two grand more than BSG had identified was somewhat annoying, but that's life I guess - some of the items were only identified after they'd fixed others for e.g.
gixermark said:
It is very nice... What do you mean by bring a C4 it won't have any 'early' features?
It will have the electronic throttle, electronic boot and bonnet release, I'm pretty sure it'll have the three spoke steering wheel and I'm pretty sure the C4 didn't come with amber front indicators. No one can be sure on the IMS bearing. None of these matter in practice IMHO. There's a sort of "flat floor roadster" appeal to having all the early features, but there are advantages to the updates as well. As I say, I would suggest assessing the car in front of you on its merits.
griffter said:
It will have the electronic throttle, electronic boot and bonnet release, I'm pretty sure it'll have the three spoke steering wheel and I'm pretty sure the C4 didn't come with amber front indicators. No one can be sure on the IMS bearing. None of these matter in practice IMHO.
My '99 C4 had manual boot / bonnet release and 4-spoke steering wheel - I think those were just an early thing rather than C2/C4. I do have the clear indicators tho and the revised rear lights. Edited by skinny on Sunday 30th April 22:20
skinny said:
My '99 C4 had manual boot / bonnet release and 4-spoke steering wheel - I think those were just an early thing rather than C2/C4. I do have the clear indicators tho and the revised rear lights.
That's interesting. I assumed the updates to other bits coincided with the introduction of the C4. More important than ever to assess the car in front of you on its merits then!Edited by skinny on Sunday 30th April 22:20
As this is the thread that I'd mentioned my 3.4 cab ownership costs I thought I'd update, I have the invoice from Precision for the latest work (which may change but not by a huge amount as they double check the list of parts) so I've changed my estimate to reflect reality:
So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
I'm really very hopeful that the spending will tail off now as we've attended to suspension, brakes, engine and I have bodywork and hood planned in.
I am still planning on getting a Hartech rebuild, but that'll be in a couple of years (I'd hope!) as I approach 80,000 miles.
With that added to the tally we'd be looking at the £40,000 996.
So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
I'm really very hopeful that the spending will tail off now as we've attended to suspension, brakes, engine and I have bodywork and hood planned in.
I am still planning on getting a Hartech rebuild, but that'll be in a couple of years (I'd hope!) as I approach 80,000 miles.
With that added to the tally we'd be looking at the £40,000 996.
Dammit said:
As this is the thread that I'd mentioned my 3.4 cab ownership costs I thought I'd update, I have the invoice from Precision for the latest work (which may change but not by a huge amount as they double check the list of parts) so I've changed my estimate to reflect reality:
So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
I'm really very hopeful that the spending will tail off now as we've attended to suspension, brakes, engine and I have bodywork and hood planned in.
I am still planning on getting a Hartech rebuild, but that'll be in a couple of years (I'd hope!) as I approach 80,000 miles.
With that added to the tally we'd be looking at the £40,000 996.
So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
I'm really very hopeful that the spending will tail off now as we've attended to suspension, brakes, engine and I have bodywork and hood planned in.
I am still planning on getting a Hartech rebuild, but that'll be in a couple of years (I'd hope!) as I approach 80,000 miles.
With that added to the tally we'd be looking at the £40,000 996.
Dammit said:
So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
Might just be me missing something ? (I've not read the whole thread) but that paints rather an "unfair" and pessimistic picture of the 996 running costs. And it sounds like you've gone for an open chequebook, rather than a more pragmatic approach too possibly ? ?I wouldn't term accident damage a "normal" Porsche 996 running expense.....
Roof replacement, bodywork and paint/painting seat backs is required because ? the previous owner/s weren't careful/diligent ? or they're a wear item ?
Centre console delete and Becker supply/fitting, Well technically that's not a running cost, surely it's more of an upgrade?
PPI is an "expense" you'd expect to pay irrespective of the car you buy (and probably the best £250 you'll spend on any car !!)
Tyres are a wear item on any car.
I'd like to know what you got for your £6k suspension overhaul ..... Ohlins and RSS adjustable toe, camber and caster arms everywhere I'd hope ?
I'd go on, but I think you get the point
Its still 13k onto a 10k car tho ignoring the elective stuff.
Im probably only 5k required into mine and 5k elective. I suspect over the next year I'll need another 5-7k on suspension and exhaust and service stuff like plugs etc.
Highlights the importance of knowing what you're getting into. Try to find something where the previous owner has spent the money. Or at least be aware of what it needs and take that into account in purchase price. However the difference between a fully sorted car and a car that needs refreshing will always be less than the cost of the refresh
Im probably only 5k required into mine and 5k elective. I suspect over the next year I'll need another 5-7k on suspension and exhaust and service stuff like plugs etc.
Highlights the importance of knowing what you're getting into. Try to find something where the previous owner has spent the money. Or at least be aware of what it needs and take that into account in purchase price. However the difference between a fully sorted car and a car that needs refreshing will always be less than the cost of the refresh
I've chucked a grand at mine since I bought it on a big service, MOT, thorough check over and a few little bits here and there. If I was being hypercritical I'd want to paint the passenger door and roof and the steering wheel will be retrimmed in the next few weeks, but nothing that I would count as 'normal' running costs
It even scrubs up ok
It even scrubs up ok
Dammit said:
As this is the thread that I'd mentioned my 3.4 cab ownership costs I thought I'd update, I have the invoice from Precision for the latest work (which may change but not by a huge amount as they double check the list of parts) so I've changed my estimate to reflect reality:
So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
I'm really very hopeful that the spending will tail off now as we've attended to suspension, brakes, engine and I have bodywork and hood planned in.
I am still planning on getting a Hartech rebuild, but that'll be in a couple of years (I'd hope!) as I approach 80,000 miles.
With that added to the tally we'd be looking at the £40,000 996.
Quite unbelievable So I can confirm that so far it's been more expensive to own an 18 year old 996 than it would have been to buy a brand new 991, if I'd financed it.
I'm really very hopeful that the spending will tail off now as we've attended to suspension, brakes, engine and I have bodywork and hood planned in.
I am still planning on getting a Hartech rebuild, but that'll be in a couple of years (I'd hope!) as I approach 80,000 miles.
With that added to the tally we'd be looking at the £40,000 996.
I take it the pre-purchase inspection didn't throw up any of this work to be done, but if it did, then surely you would walk away from a possible £20k after purchase spend. The PPI identified ~£4,500 of it, which was factored into the purchase price of the car.
A couple of things to note - this is, as has been observed, not the route that everyone would take with their car.
Everything that Precision Porsche have identified as needing changing/fixing has been done - a lot of owners would have left stuff (they said), although to do so would have been to (in my view) compromise the car (a large chunk of the bill I called "suspension etc" was to get the air-conditioning working again, for example, which isn't required for the car to work).
Does the roof need changing? No, not really - the rear window is fogged and that's annoying me, it's reached an age when it's gone beyond it's elastic limit I think (warning: wrong terms being used) and therefore whenever it flexes it fogs more.
Will painting the seat backs change the way they work? No, it'll get rid of the deep scratches in the backs that resulted from an incident with (I am told) the wind-deflector.
The bodywork is required to address corrosion - the dissimilar metal issue under the door striker plates and the boot lid, but the cost of tackling that was two thirds the cost of a complete respray and would mean no blending the front in, no blending half way along the doors etc.
Did I have to do everything I've done and will do? No, in the same way that Heathrow Airport Parking crashing my car isn't a typical running expense (one would hope!) that any 996 owner should expect.
But these are the costs, honestly recorded, of getting the car to A1 condition, which is why I thought it might be interesting to mention.
A couple of things to note - this is, as has been observed, not the route that everyone would take with their car.
Everything that Precision Porsche have identified as needing changing/fixing has been done - a lot of owners would have left stuff (they said), although to do so would have been to (in my view) compromise the car (a large chunk of the bill I called "suspension etc" was to get the air-conditioning working again, for example, which isn't required for the car to work).
Does the roof need changing? No, not really - the rear window is fogged and that's annoying me, it's reached an age when it's gone beyond it's elastic limit I think (warning: wrong terms being used) and therefore whenever it flexes it fogs more.
Will painting the seat backs change the way they work? No, it'll get rid of the deep scratches in the backs that resulted from an incident with (I am told) the wind-deflector.
The bodywork is required to address corrosion - the dissimilar metal issue under the door striker plates and the boot lid, but the cost of tackling that was two thirds the cost of a complete respray and would mean no blending the front in, no blending half way along the doors etc.
Did I have to do everything I've done and will do? No, in the same way that Heathrow Airport Parking crashing my car isn't a typical running expense (one would hope!) that any 996 owner should expect.
But these are the costs, honestly recorded, of getting the car to A1 condition, which is why I thought it might be interesting to mention.
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