Porsche at lemans
Discussion
browngt3 said:
This indicates to me that any particular advantage or help Porsche might have had would be small.
I don't disagree but my point was that compared to last year, Porsche are doing better and a fair bit better too in some cases (N24 with the outgoing GT3R and now Le Mans with the RSR) while in 2016 they were nowhere. that is primarily a bop change that has made the difference imo. Gte pro provides good racing (most of the time) as the cars are kept close in performance but imo the real achievement is from the team mechanics getting things to work smoothly and reliability rather than one manufacturer's car being 'superior' to another.Agreed, The FIA, politics go hand in hand with BOP as the arbiter but a car which is reliable, works it’s tyres well over the stunt cycle and is constant in its pace has the hallmarks of being a great car. the RSR’s all the way through their tyre cycle looked impressive. There were times when the previous version looked much more difficult
browngt3 said:
Alonso in the winning car convenient too? We can look at it this way or just enjoy the sport. Problem is big money interests do tend to influence things but what I would say the Ford and the Porsche did appear evenly matched and the number of laps completed by the front runners in the GT classes were close. This indicates to me that any particular advantage or help Porsche might have had would be small.
Every sport is fixed imo, too much money in it, football, cricket, cycling, tennis horse racing, boxing all proven to be fixed these days. Cannot trust results.It’s not racing if they all have restrictions is it ? B.O.P is a fix, the Ford GT would prob win with no restrictions.
LMP1 was a sure win for that car, then the 2nd car missed a stop right at the end when they were close, Really !
Porsche911R said:
browngt3 said:
Alonso in the winning car convenient too? We can look at it this way or just enjoy the sport. Problem is big money interests do tend to influence things but what I would say the Ford and the Porsche did appear evenly matched and the number of laps completed by the front runners in the GT classes were close. This indicates to me that any particular advantage or help Porsche might have had would be small.
Every sport is fixed imo, too much money in it, football, cricket, cycling, tennis horse racing, boxing all proven to be fixed these days. Cannot trust results.It’s not racing if they all have restrictions is it ? B.O.P is a fix, the Ford GT would prob win with no restrictions.
LMP1 was a sure win for that car, then the 2nd car missed a stop right at the end when they were close, Really !
Porsche911R said:
Every sport is fixed imo, too much money in it, football, cricket, cycling, tennis horse racing, boxing all proven to be fixed these days. Cannot trust results.
It’s not racing if they all have restrictions is it ? B.O.P is a fix, the Ford GT would prob win with no restrictions.
LMP1 was a sure win for that car, then the 2nd car missed a stop right at the end when they were close, Really !
On the contrary, Alonso who’s had hardly any seat time in the car at lemans, consistently punched in quicker times that all of the other drivers in both cars. To do that in a car that behaves quite differently to what he is used to driving makes him a very special driver. Especially when you consider that his team mates are the cream of the LMP drivers. It just demonstrates that the defining factor is still the driver and not just the car.It’s not racing if they all have restrictions is it ? B.O.P is a fix, the Ford GT would prob win with no restrictions.
LMP1 was a sure win for that car, then the 2nd car missed a stop right at the end when they were close, Really !
Re your other point about fixes, I know several drivers that raced for some top teams today. I can assure you that they do not share your view
Dempsey may be a Hollywood A-lister but could he fake his behaviour as team principal? He looked genuinely f**d from being awake 24 hours through intense pressure and concentration. Don't think there was any aco help there. So a genuinely fantastic Porsche victory. As was the Pink Pig!
Taffy66 said:
Loved seeing Patrick Dempsey's totally impassive face all through the race, erupt into an euphoric jubilant expression when his 911RSR crossed the line..Paul Newman reincarnated..
That tension for the last hour was palpable. His celebrations on the pit wall were brilliant. Liked his grubby TAG hat, too.Taffy66 said:
Loved seeing Patrick Dempsey's totally impassive face all through the race, erupt into an euphoric jubilant expression when his 911RSR crossed the line..Paul Newman reincarnated..
Yes interesting parallels with Newman, who was of course both race driver and team owner. And he raced possibly my fav race car of all time - the 935!Steve Rance said:
On the contrary, Alonso who’s had hardly any seat time in the car at lemans, consistently punched in quicker times that all of the other drivers in both cars. To do that in a car that behaves quite differently to what he is used to driving makes him a very special driver. Especially when you consider that his team mates are the cream of the LMP drivers. It just demonstrates that the defining factor is still the driver and not just the car.
Re your other point about fixes, I know several drivers that raced for some top teams today. I can assure you that they do not share your view
Drivers are porns.Re your other point about fixes, I know several drivers that raced for some top teams today. I can assure you that they do not share your view
Bourdais told Autosport on Wednesday that the Balance of Performance in GTE Pro was now largely minor adjustments due to the Ford becoming a known quantity, but he said drivers were not "in charge of your own destiny" because of how controlled the BoP was.
It’s been the car which wins for tens of years, now we have BoP, they can choose who wins.
Drivers just drive.
I’d take that with a pinch of salt. Ford have been a beneficiary of BOP for a while. The weaving thing is interesting. F1 is sanitised racing these days. For most drivers that have graduated through the ranks such as Formula ford, you learn that anything goes as long as you don’t touch. If you are quicker, you should be able to find a Way through. If I were in the Porsche and knew that the car we were racing were behind me and on fresh tyres, I’d be making the car as wide as possible for a lap or so until the Fords tyres went past their sweet spot. I’d be expecting a battle. A key tactic of a driver is a ‘dummy’ in the braking zone. I didn’t see the Ford driver try it once. He just tried to simply drive past. In those circumstances it’s a bit lame to cry foul.
The 911 appeared to have better traction, better straightline speed and better brakes. Given how easy it was to retake the position from Bourdais I'm not sure why there was a need to weeve about and squeeze him off the track. Bourdais' extra pace was in places it was very difficult to benefit from. The 911 could just drive by using power. Bourdais' overtake around the outside at Indy was great.
I'm no Ford fan, especially after 2016, but I don't see what the Porsche driver did as being within the realms of proper racing at any level.
I'm no Ford fan, especially after 2016, but I don't see what the Porsche driver did as being within the realms of proper racing at any level.
Proton are more than just dempsey who is not team principal unless that has recently changed,they have 6 of the 8 customer rsr made, it was a steep learning curve,the team intially did not like the car as it was far to complex to run,even the factory were struggling with them.
Now they are on top of the new areo/diffuser etc,they are flying.
Silverstone next,well done proton.
Alonso drive was sensational,and shows his true colours,never seen so much traffic at times with all the yellows etc and then 3 abreast down the famous mile stretches.
Now they are on top of the new areo/diffuser etc,they are flying.
Silverstone next,well done proton.
Alonso drive was sensational,and shows his true colours,never seen so much traffic at times with all the yellows etc and then 3 abreast down the famous mile stretches.
browngt3 said:
The rsr's look the biz too. Love the retro Pink pig and Rothmans liveries. Easily the best sounding racecars too
Weren't they just? Epic noise from the RSRs.My BIL does work for Aston and was there with the AMR team, I'll be interested to see whether he concedes the RSR was the best sounding motor!
Agreed he was absolute class. You know how tough it can be to make so many passes at big closing sppeds on the lap and keep the times consistant and the car safe. A skill that he wont be used to. Brilliant.
I hope that he gets the Indy. He was quick enough last year - and that is another completely different discipline. Great to see top line drivers in different types of racing.
I hope that he gets the Indy. He was quick enough last year - and that is another completely different discipline. Great to see top line drivers in different types of racing.
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