Any love for the 997 GTS?

[Louis Balfour]

P.Griffin said:

SL550M said:

That’s absolute 911 perfection to my eyes. As others have also said, far more preferable to a GT3 in the sense of what I want in a road car. Sadly I can’t stretch to that kind of money for one.

Completely agree. I rather like the look of this and keep the £50k.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308090...

At the risk of pointing out the obvious that is a completely different proposition. No, the GTS wasn’t double the car, but is it was the best of the 997s and arguably one of the best ever 911s, the other is a cooking model and an earlier iteration. If you want the best of anything there is often a disproportionately high price to pay. Often rewarded with improved retained value though.

[CardinalFang]

VerySideways said:

Price differential because of the gearbox, and possibly the colour.
Plenty of silver 997's around, blue a good bit rarer. Likewise plenty of PDK around but manual rarer.

Completely agree with the factors, just really surprised at the size of the differential!

[maura]

Had 997 GTS manual from new, was definitively a better sum of the parts car, loved it, but you had to thrash it to enjoy it. Fast forward 2023/24 a 991 T manual far far better drivers car, more engaging beautiful linear delivery and low down torque. With 997 GTS coming up to exemption next year from Porsche Warranty and the fact not just the PDK is expensive to repair on 997 GTS, and you can’t thrash a 997 GTS on UK roads to get the best out of it, 991 Manual T way better option and Porsche warranty option to 2033. Believe 105 manual 997 GTS v 152 manual 991 T, for me a no brainer. 997 GTS manual was a great car in its time. And boy I do not miss those centrelock wheels, hear they are better now but those early cars, what a PITA.

[P.Griffin]

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

SL550M said:

That’s absolute 911 perfection to my eyes. As others have also said, far more preferable to a GT3 in the sense of what I want in a road car. Sadly I can’t stretch to that kind of money for one.

Completely agree. I rather like the look of this and keep the £50k.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308090...

At the risk of pointing out the obvious that is a completely different proposition.

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition."

Edited by P.Griffin on Tuesday 16th January 13:54

[Slippydiff]

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

[P.Griffin]

Slippydiff said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance. From what I can gather (Peter Morgan is a notable source), only 5% of all cars are affected. But then again, you'd be cheesed off if you discovered it needed doing. That aside, suggesting they are completely different is as daft as saying of 2 human brothers, one is a monkey.

[Louis Balfour]

P.Griffin said:

Slippydiff said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance. From what I can gather (Peter Morgan is a notable source), only 5% of all cars are affected. But then again, you'd be cheesed off if you discovered it needed doing. That aside, suggesting they are completely different is as daft as saying of 2 human brothers, one is a monkey.

I had a 997.1S followed by a 997.2 GTS (with a couple of 991s in between). They were quite different cars. So your comparison between a 2007 Gen 1 and a 2011 Gen 2 GTS isn't really a particularly valid one in my opinion.

[P.Griffin]

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

Slippydiff said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance. From what I can gather (Peter Morgan is a notable source), only 5% of all cars are affected. But then again, you'd be cheesed off if you discovered it needed doing. That aside, suggesting they are completely different is as daft as saying of 2 human brothers, one is a monkey.

I had a 997.1S followed by a 997.2 GTS (with a couple of 991s in between). They were quite different cars. So your comparison between a 2007 Gen 1 and a 2011 Gen 2 GTS isn't really a particularly valid one in my opinion.

How foolish of me to think a gen 1 and a gen2 might be in some way similar

[Louis Balfour]

P.Griffin said:

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

Slippydiff said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance. From what I can gather (Peter Morgan is a notable source), only 5% of all cars are affected. But then again, you'd be cheesed off if you discovered it needed doing. That aside, suggesting they are completely different is as daft as saying of 2 human brothers, one is a monkey.

I had a 997.1S followed by a 997.2 GTS (with a couple of 991s in between). They were quite different cars. So your comparison between a 2007 Gen 1 and a 2011 Gen 2 GTS isn't really a particularly valid one in my opinion.

How foolish of me to think a gen 1 and a gen2 might be in some way similar

They aren't particularly.

Both good cars but drove differently, they felt, looked and sounded different too. The GTS variant was separate again from the standard Gen 2, due to the suspension and power kt.

[P.Griffin]

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

Slippydiff said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance. From what I can gather (Peter Morgan is a notable source), only 5% of all cars are affected. But then again, you'd be cheesed off if you discovered it needed doing. That aside, suggesting they are completely different is as daft as saying of 2 human brothers, one is a monkey.

I had a 997.1S followed by a 997.2 GTS (with a couple of 991s in between). They were quite different cars. So your comparison between a 2007 Gen 1 and a 2011 Gen 2 GTS isn't really a particularly valid one in my opinion.

How foolish of me to think a gen 1 and a gen2 might be in some way similar

They aren't particularly.

Both good cars but drove differently, they felt, looked and sounded different too. The GTS variant was separate again from the standard Gen 2, due to the suspension and power kt.

So if the 2 are completely different, what should one consider or compare a GTS to, but doesn't want to pay the premium for a GTS?

Did Porsche chuck out the 40 year old Evolution play book between these 2 generations of the same car?

Edited by P.Griffin on Tuesday 16th January 17:05

[Louis Balfour]

P.Griffin said:

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

Louis Balfour said:

P.Griffin said:

Slippydiff said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm not convinced that it is a "completely different proposition”

It would be when you’re staring down the barrel of a £17k bill to fix its bore scoring issues when they appear...

If you’re going to buy a Gen 1 car it needs to have had a full and documented Hartech based engine build, otherwise buy a higher miles/cheaper Gen 2 3.6.

I suppose it depends on your risk tolerance. From what I can gather (Peter Morgan is a notable source), only 5% of all cars are affected. But then again, you'd be cheesed off if you discovered it needed doing. That aside, suggesting they are completely different is as daft as saying of 2 human brothers, one is a monkey.

I had a 997.1S followed by a 997.2 GTS (with a couple of 991s in between). They were quite different cars. So your comparison between a 2007 Gen 1 and a 2011 Gen 2 GTS isn't really a particularly valid one in my opinion.

How foolish of me to think a gen 1 and a gen2 might be in some way similar

They aren't particularly.

Both good cars but drove differently, they felt, looked and sounded different too. The GTS variant was separate again from the standard Gen 2, due to the suspension and power kt.

So if the 2 are completely different, what should one consider or compare a GTS to, but doesn't want to pay the premium for a GTS?

Did Porsche chuck out the 40 year old Evolution play book between these 2 generations of the same car?

Edited by P.Griffin on Tuesday 16th January 17:05

Silly comment about the evolution play book. The Gen 2 was an evolution from the Gen 1. The GTS was a last roll of the dice for the 997 with all the toys included at an attractive price. So you got an astutely specced and tweaked model that made an already great car even better.

If you want a car in then same bracket as the GTS, without the GTS price tag, you'll be looking for a Gen 2 car. The youngest of them is twelve years old this year, so personally I would be looking for one that has been regularly maintained, more than a low miles example. Beyond that, it's choosing a car with the options that matter to you.

[rudester]

LemonTart said:

Nice 15k miler

https://www.paragongb.com/869/porsche-for-sale/por...

My old car, and in arguably the best spec. I owned it from 2k miles and TBH, I never really gelled with it, preferring the Peridot green Cayman R that I traded it for.

[rudester]

maura said:

Had 997 GTS manual from new, was definitively a better sum of the parts car, loved it, but you had to thrash it to enjoy it. Fast forward 2023/24 a 991 T manual far far better drivers car, more engaging beautiful linear delivery and low down torque. With 997 GTS coming up to exemption next year from Porsche Warranty and the fact not just the PDK is expensive to repair on 997 GTS, and you can’t thrash a 997 GTS on UK roads to get the best out of it, 991 Manual T way better option and Porsche warranty option to 2033. Believe 105 manual 997 GTS v 152 manual 991 T, for me a no brainer. 997 GTS manual was a great car in its time. And boy I do not miss those centrelock wheels, hear they are better now but those early cars, what a PITA.

I think I'd tend to agree with these comments. The 997GTS needs revs to really fly, and always felt like the red line arrived 500-1000rpm than it needed to. I'd take the extra torque of the 991 T today.

[GT4RS]

The only ones who think a 997gts is worth 85k to 95k are the new trying to sell!

Must be a tiny pool of people in the Uk who would pay that sort of money for a rhd 997gts.

Even the best 991.1 gt3 are a slow sell at 95k, and certain red 997.2 gt3 has been for sale for over a year just over 100k.

Someone please tell me what makes a 997gts worth 85k to 95k in todays market?

[DennyHulme]

GT4RS said:

The only ones who think a 997gts is worth 85k to 95k are the new trying to sell!

Must be a tiny pool of people in the Uk who would pay that sort of money for a rhd 997gts.

Even the best 991.1 gt3 are a slow sell at 95k, and certain red 997.2 gt3 has been for sale for over a year just over 100k.

Someone please tell me what makes a 997gts worth 85k to 95k in todays market?

I have one, Some might say that the Porsche 997 GTS is the best road car Stuttgart has ever built. "not my words btw"

Much rarer than a GT3 no daft long gearing, it does 64mph in 2nd, it has a wide body like the 997 RS, and the x51 engine makes power to red line but also offers more torque in the mid range, it's a £15k kit to retro fit. less than 90 UK cars left.

The only car which now has the same ethos is the new ST, they have remade a modern 997 GTS if you look at the end result.

If you don't get it you don't get it, it's not for the cars and coffee meets, it's not for the GT3 hype, it's a very pure driving machine.
I'll repost the quote on the top 10 911's

"Some might say that the Porsche 997 GTS is the best road car Stuttgart has ever built" the new ST was not out then though. (just looked at that review they put the ST in 8th place the 997 GTS was 6th place. Not that I Agree with the reviews and stuff, I posted that for a bit of fun but it makes outsiders take a 2nd look at the 997 GTS to make a top 10 best ever list who ever writes it.

Mine has a set of Ohlins with road bias custom spring rates, GT3 LCA and a set of Recaro's no modern car can match the feel of the 2010 era cars, It's like the Cayman R's daddy and they are £50k so £85k is the right money. I paid for one because I did not want a GT3 as to get one to a road spec would cost me way more than getting a GTS to fast road spec. As you stated a 997 GT3 has not sold for £100k and then to mod that would be £115k + why own one ? goto any track day it's now full of PDK GT4's and modern GT3, people want fast you never see 997 GT3 on track or even at shows now as for the 996 GT3 they seem to have vanished. ON track people want to go faster easier so that's new tech with PDK.

I waited 10 years to find this car and paid top money because they are one of the best road going 911's made imo also.

Screw the old and new GT cars I have had most they are not great road cars in the UK anyway and they get more fake each model to drive.

I sold all my GT stuff, I daily a PDK Cayman GTS 4.0 which was £94k list and it's just a mega car to drive, and my weekend car is my custom 997 GTS.

lets not forget to get the same Sports classic in this era is £400k !

My question to you is why would you NOT want one ?

There is only one for sale it's £90k, goes to show that people don't want to part with them and for good reason, that one is £10k over priced I would say though. But if you want it you want it I guess. a 992 RS is £100k overs and would be far less fun on a B road.

Edited by DennyHulme on Wednesday 17th January 09:05

[marioandluigi]

An excellent summary and would certainly concur from experience as a 997 GTS owner. It's the closest to a Sport Classic on a budget.

Question: Is there a reliable source for accurate UK and global numbers of 997 GTS's and 997 4GTS's produced, as well as still on the road?

[guyvert1]

Even more strange is the GTS brings out the lurkers, two posters on thier first posts !

Great car no doubt, but its now @ collectors money, which means they wont get driven, most current owners probably to worried about mileage aswell due to the higher pricing.

You'd be better off with a 997.2 and have fun with a few extras !

[GT4P]

guyvert1 said:

Even more strange is the GTS brings out the lurkers, two posters on thier first posts !

One of those posters is not his first Rodeo on here!
But FairPlay I know he has had a lot of Porsche and the 997 GTs is basically a 997 SC without roof bubbles and Fuch design wheels so a low miles manual car for under £100k is a bit of a bargain compared other so called low “volume” specials.
There was one like that blue one for sale back in 2011/12 delivery miles and under list but at the same time SC could also be had for under list, low miles under £100k!

[Slippydiff]

DennyHulme said:

I have one, Some might say that the Porsche 997 GTS is the best road car Stuttgart has ever built. "not my words btw"

Much rarer than a GT3 no daft long gearing, it does 64mph in 2nd, it has a wide body like the 997 RS, and the x51 engine makes power to red line but also offers more torque in the mid range, it's a £15k kit to retro fit. less than 90 UK cars left.

The only car which now has the same ethos is the new ST, they have remade a modern 997 GTS if you look at the end result.

If you don't get it you don't get it, it's not for the cars and coffee meets, it's not for the GT3 hype, it's a very pure driving machine.
I'll repost the quote on the top 10 911's

"Some might say that the Porsche 997 GTS is the best road car Stuttgart has ever built" the new ST was not out then though. (just looked at that review they put the ST in 8th place the 997 GTS was 6th place. Not that I Agree with the reviews and stuff, I posted that for a bit of fun but it makes outsiders take a 2nd look at the 997 GTS to make a top 10 best ever list who ever writes it.

Mine has a set of Ohlins with road bias custom spring rates, GT3 LCA and a set of Recaro's no modern car can match the feel of the 2010 era cars, It's like the Cayman R's daddy and they are £50k so £85k is the right money. I paid for one because I did not want a GT3 as to get one to a road spec would cost me way more than getting a GTS to fast road spec. As you stated a 997 GT3 has not sold for £100k and then to mod that would be £115k + why own one ? goto any track day it's now full of PDK GT4's and modern GT3, people want fast you never see 997 GT3 on track or even at shows now as for the 996 GT3 they seem to have vanished. ON track people want to go faster easier so that's new tech with PDK.

I waited 10 years to find this car and paid top money because they are one of the best road going 911's made imo also.

Screw the old and new GT cars I have had most they are not great road cars in the UK anyway and they get more fake each model to drive.

I sold all my GT stuff, I daily a PDK Cayman GTS 4.0 which was £94k list and it's just a mega car to drive, and my weekend car is my custom 997 GTS.

lets not forget to get the same Sports classic in this era is £400k !

My question to you is why would you NOT want one ?

There is only one for sale it's £90k, goes to show that people don't want to part with them and for good reason, that one is £10k over priced I would say though. But if you want it you want it I guess. a 992 RS is £100k overs and would be far less fun on a B road.

And he’s back !!

Hi Denny David

Quite a lot of hyperbole there, and still trotting out the same old stuff about gear ratios that the vast majority seem to be able live with, without having a meltdown every time they drive their cars.
But actually nicely written, and polite too. So clearly it’s not just me mellowing in my old age ...

[Slippydiff]

GT4P said:

One of those posters is not his first Rodeo on here!
But FairPlay I know he has had a lot of Porsche and the 997 GTs is basically a 997 SC without roof bubbles and Fuch design wheels so a low miles manual car for under £100k is a bit of a bargain compared other so called low “volume” specials.
There was one like that blue one for sale back in 2011/12 delivery miles and under list but at the same time SC could also be had for under list, low miles under £100k!

The Sport Classic is a wonderful Porsche “special” that seems to have by and large flown under the radar.
Personally I’m not a huge fan of the widebody/C4 look, but everything else is pretty much spot on about them.
It’s just a shame they command such crazy prices these days.